Re-booted SKYO approved pipe dreams and trade ideas

[donlever]

Yes agreed theman, and au contraire RG, by simply suggesting the floating in of Coach # 4 in less than 4 years as a "problem solver" we should pretty much be able to determine we do indeed have a player problem.

As an aside I saw out there in the wild wild socialz world the following suggested:

EP11.6
Soucy
Sushi boy

....for...

Cozens
Power
Benson

[Carl Yagro]

As an aside I saw out there in the wild wild socialz world the following suggested:

EP11.6
Soucy
Sushi boy

....for...

Cozens
Power
Benson

I don't think SKYO himself could come up with a pipe dream this wild.

[Megaterio Llamas]

Yes agreed theman, and au contraire RG, by simply suggesting the floating in of Coach # 4 in less than 4 years as a "problem solver" we should pretty much be able to determine we do indeed have a player problem.

Uh, Bruce Boudreau was hired in December 2021. That's two in coaches in a little over three years if you fire Tocchet today (which I'm not advocating). It's a bit of a carousel alright. But it's not as bad as you're making it out to be. And remember, the owner hired Bruce so he was basically being set up as a lame duck the day he signed. Travis and Willy basically had standard length NHL coaching runs here.

[Meds]

Yes agreed theman, and au contraire RG, by simply suggesting the floating in of Coach # 4 in less than 4 years as a "problem solver" we should pretty much be able to determine we do indeed have a player problem.

Uh, Bruce Boudreau was hired in December 2021. That's two in coaches in a little over three years if you fire Tocchet today (which I'm not advocating). It's a bit of a carousel alright. But it's not as bad as you're making it out to be. And remember, the owner hired Bruce so he was basically being set up as a lame duck the day he signed. Travis and willing had standard length NHL coaching runs here.

Who did Bruce replace?

2021 - Travis and Bruce
2023 - Bruce and Tocchet
2025 - Tocchet and ?????

The suggestion is that IF they float in another coach this season it WILL BE the 4th coach in 40 months.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Why it's in the pipe dreams thread Mëds

I expounded.

I know I've it mentioned before by I would try changing the coach before I dynamited the whole foundation myself. It might not work but I'd say it's worth a shot. It's easy to do. And you find out definitively whether you have a player problem or not.

This line of reasoning makes sense to me.

Couldn’t an argument be made that the Canucks already tried that with moving on from BB and hiring RT?

I agree it could be fairly argued that they did. But I'd say that the results were inconclusive. The way I remember it, both coaches got a very strong "new coach bump", then the team faded from underneath them. That's consistent with the players getting excited about a new approach that might be fun or could be successful (or both), then getting despondent when the rest of the league figures out their new system, and the coaches don't continue to adapt. To me, that suggests that there might be a coaching answer, but the Canucks haven't found it.

And it's never a controlled experiment, because the team -- and the rest of the league -- change during the course of a coach's tenure. I think that in this case Megaterio is proposing another coaching change as a specific response to the Canucks current problems that would be less drastic than trading away a core player. I agree that it would be easier, and that Tocchet is not a proven NHL coaching success, so there's a reasonable chance that he could be as big a part of the problem as anyone.

I'm also inclined to believe that the petunia-intensive roster could be nigh-optimized for shortening coaching careers. I'm not sure that every promising young coach with his eye to his future career would be willing to take on this challenge.

[Megaterio Llamas]

^^ I like what RG is cooking. Trading away the best players won't cure what ails us imvho.

[Ronning's Ghost]

by simply suggesting the floating in of Coach # 4 in less than 4 years as a "problem solver" we should pretty much be able to determine we do indeed have a player problem.

I didn't mean to imply that they don't. I wrote an extensive breakdown of my interpretation of the limitations with the roster construction elsewhere.

But I agree with Megaterio that changing the coach is easier. Even if a new coach only provided yet another temporary bump, then at least the Canucks could be making their re-tooling trades from a position of greater strength.

[Megaterio Llamas]

I get that some of the guys have been foillowing along just as closely as I have and don't think the coach is the problem. I also get the distinct feeling that management feels the same way and will trade JT or Peter and Tocchet will be extended and returned back behind the bench next year and we'll all have the opportunity to watch it play out one way or another. They will support their choice as coach, as you would expect them to. I'd personally rather they stood pat if that's the case and fixed the blueline in the off season instead.

[Megaterio Llamas]

Actually, I think I'll tap out if they decide to tear up the foundation. I don't have enough time left to waste it on shit I don't believe in.

[Chef Boi RD]

Yes agreed theman, and au contraire RG, by simply suggesting the floating in of Coach # 4 in less than 4 years as a "problem solver" we should pretty much be able to determine we do indeed have a player problem.

As an aside I saw out there in the wild wild socialz world the following suggested:

EP11.6
Soucy
Sushi boy

....for...

Cozens
Power
Benson

The idea of Cozens being the heart of the return is concerning due to his drop off last season from the season before and continuing this season. He hasn’t played great for a season and a half, longer than Petey hasn’t played great. If you read the criticism on his game right now, it’s things like - you don’t notice him, he doesn’t go to the hard areas, low compete level, looks lazy…blah, blah.

If the deal is a struggling player for a struggling player that makes sense but factoring in ceilings Petey is a better player, but he also makes a few more dollars, considerably. So yeah it’s close to being a straight up one for one deal mainly due to a team (Buffalo) having to take back almost $4 million more in a player (Petey) who is struggling like the player they are trading (Cozens), but is considerably cheaper.

If the rumours are true regarding Buffalo emerging as a trade partner, Cozens is definitely part or all of what’s coming back as they are as frustrated with Cozens as we are with Pettersson. It can almost be guaranteed that the hold up is Buffalo either wants some of a Petey’s contract retained while Allvin not wanting to retain. Meaning that we would have to take more money back like, a Byram add in for instance, with us adding a high quality asset to Petey (a sweetener) that is of low money and young like a top prospect that the Canucks don’t want to trade or a top pick like a 1st rd pick. Are the Canucks currently seeing what they have in D-Pete right now? Showcasing him? A scarificial lamb? I’d hate to trade the kid. I’d rather sweeten the pot with the 2025 1st rd pick.

Personally, I’d rather trade Miller straight up for Cozens. Not sure Buffalo does that

[donlever]

I assume so would the Canucks.

Sabres, as you know, (with the caveat that all of this is click bait conjecture), would have interest in only EP I would think.

Miller wouldn't waive for them either presumably.

[rikster]

If the rumours are true regarding Buffalo emerging as a trade partner, Cozens is definitely part or all of what’s coming back as they are as frustrated with Cozens as we are with Pettersson. It can almost be guaranteed that the hold up is Buffalo either wants some of a Petey’s contract retained while Allvin not wanting to retain. Meaning that we would have to take more money back like, a Byram add in for instance, with us adding a high quality asset to Petey (a sweetener) that is of low money and young like a top prospect that the Canucks don’t want to trade or a top pick like a 1st rd pick. Are the Canucks currently seeing what they have in D-Pete right now? Showcasing him? A scarificial lamb? I’d hate to trade the kid. I’d rather sweeten the pot with the 2025 1st rd pick.

Personally, I’d rather trade Miller straight up for Cozens. Not sure Buffalo does that

Aren't we being told that JT has asked to be moved and EP has asked to stay?...

If that's accurate reporting, then the team would move JT before they considered moving EP, no?

Take care...

[dangler]

Cozens, Byram and a 1st are what should be coming back.

[Meds]

If the rumours are true regarding Buffalo emerging as a trade partner, Cozens is definitely part or all of what’s coming back as they are as frustrated with Cozens as we are with Pettersson. It can almost be guaranteed that the hold up is Buffalo either wants some of a Petey’s contract retained while Allvin not wanting to retain. Meaning that we would have to take more money back like, a Byram add in for instance, with us adding a high quality asset to Petey (a sweetener) that is of low money and young like a top prospect that the Canucks don’t want to trade or a top pick like a 1st rd pick. Are the Canucks currently seeing what they have in D-Pete right now? Showcasing him? A scarificial lamb? I’d hate to trade the kid. I’d rather sweeten the pot with the 2025 1st rd pick.

Personally, I’d rather trade Miller straight up for Cozens. Not sure Buffalo does that

Aren't we being told that JT has asked to be moved and EP has asked to stay?...

If that's accurate reporting, then the team would move JT before they considered moving EP, no?

Take care...

JT has a full NMC and the offers for him have been unacceptable. If he has indeed asked for a trade, and the reports that he have are pure speculation and “Elliotte-4th-line-insider” level reliable, then he probably has exercised his NMC to have some control over where he lands.

If they are considering trading Pettersson because of better offers, then that simply confirms that this entire mess is because of bad blood between these two players.

I interpret the situation this way because of a few reasons…..

If JT is the problem child and Pettersson is the bullied golden boy, then you move the problem, return be damned, even at a loss, suck it up, and go forward.

I just don’t think a guy goes from bleeding team colours, being the leader and engine on the top line, and driving the bus with Quinn, to wanting out the next day.

My (hypothetical) theory…..

Pettersson started phoning it in just before the ASG. He switched from phone to snail mail after the ASG. He held out for top money that he didn’t deserve based upon play at the time (and really only had one season under his belt that approached that value). This didn’t sit too well with JT who had signed an extension at team friendly value. Then Petey gets his paycheque and continues to play disengaged hockey, contributes next to jackshit in the playoffs, and blames it on an injury that nobody on the team knew about. This will make things worse…..and it won’t just be Miller who is having a problem with it.

The lacklustre play continues into the following training camp, pre-season, and regular season…..despite management grabbing DeBrusk in the offseason as a likely new linemate for Scooter. Chemistry isn’t instant and Pettersson continues to appear to be simply going through the motions.

We know that Miller called Pettersson out in a practice this season, but I don’t think that’s the start of it. I’d bet that something happened between these guys at training camp or early pre-season, and that is why Miller was not taking ore-season reps with everyone else. He wasn’t nursing an injury, he was being sat out at team request while they tried to get Pettersson going without the pressure or distraction of Miller being in the same space.

The team insulated Pettersson. They chose to protect their little $11.6M muffin and Miller finally has had all he could handle of the situation. He took a leave of absence to sort through it, but I wouldn’t be shocked if the team wanted that time to see if Pettersson could re-engage…..and he did…..sort of. So then Miller requests a trade because the team is choosing Pettersson over him.

I don’t care how “professional” you are, that sort of thing will destroy a room. Coddling a guy who is being paid more than twice the cheddar than everyone not named Miller, Hughes, and Hronek…..and he’s got a pouty attitude and can’t come close to living up to his cap hit…..the combination won’t fly. Then factor the team choosing to go with that guy over the horse who has pulled the weight for the last 5 seasons…..not going to sit well. That sort of behaviour is going to have more than just one guy wanting out. But none of them will outright say it. The “code” doesn’t allow for that.

I also interpret Allvin's comments about Petey - “he should be a number one center” as twofold in their intent. Firstly, as a challenge and endorsement of Pettersson in hopes to motivate and inspire him. Secondly, pumping his asset value publicly.

Time will tell, but I’m betting that if you move out Pettersson the entire room resets because it will be seen as a sort of “apology” from management to the players for their handling of this, and for committing like this to a player who has had a 6 season history of times or questionable commitment.

Either way, you have to try and fix this now because otherwise you have to blow it up. Miller wants out? I can’t see Boeser wanting to stay right now. Hughes and Demko likely both saying “see ya never” the following two seasons. Garland will look for greener pastures. The Canucks will become a destination for players who can’t get a contract in a more desirable destination.

[rikster]

If the rumours are true regarding Buffalo emerging as a trade partner, Cozens is definitely part or all of what’s coming back as they are as frustrated with Cozens as we are with Pettersson. It can almost be guaranteed that the hold up is Buffalo either wants some of a Petey’s contract retained while Allvin not wanting to retain. Meaning that we would have to take more money back like, a Byram add in for instance, with us adding a high quality asset to Petey (a sweetener) that is of low money and young like a top prospect that the Canucks don’t want to trade or a top pick like a 1st rd pick. Are the Canucks currently seeing what they have in D-Pete right now? Showcasing him? A scarificial lamb? I’d hate to trade the kid. I’d rather sweeten the pot with the 2025 1st rd pick.

Personally, I’d rather trade Miller straight up for Cozens. Not sure Buffalo does that

Aren't we being told that JT has asked to be moved and EP has asked to stay?...

If that's accurate reporting, then the team would move JT before they considered moving EP, no?

Take care...

JT has a full NMC and the offers for him have been unacceptable. If he has indeed asked for a trade, and the reports that he have are pure speculation and “Elliotte-4th-line-insider” level reliable, then he probably has exercised his NMC to have some control over where he lands.

If they are considering trading Pettersson because of better offers, then that simply confirms that this entire mess is because of bad blood between these two players.

I interpret the situation this way because of a few reasons…..

If JT is the problem child and Pettersson is the bullied golden boy, then you move the problem, return be damned, even at a loss, suck it up, and go forward.

I just don’t think a guy goes from bleeding team colours, being the leader and engine on the top line, and driving the bus with Quinn, to wanting out the next day.

My (hypothetical) theory…..

Pettersson started phoning it in just before the ASG. He switched from phone to snail mail after the ASG. He held out for top money that he didn’t deserve based upon play at the time (and really only had one season under his belt that approached that value). This didn’t sit too well with JT who had signed an extension at team friendly value. Then Petey gets his paycheque and continues to play disengaged hockey, contributes next to jackshit in the playoffs, and blames it on an injury that nobody on the team knew about. This will make things worse…..and it won’t just be Miller who is having a problem with it.

The lacklustre play continues into the following training camp, pre-season, and regular season…..despite management grabbing DeBrusk in the offseason as a likely new linemate for Scooter. Chemistry isn’t instant and Pettersson continues to appear to be simply going through the motions.

We know that Miller called Pettersson out in a practice this season, but I don’t think that’s the start of it. I’d bet that something happened between these guys at training camp or early pre-season, and that is why Miller was not taking ore-season reps with everyone else. He wasn’t nursing an injury, he was being sat out at team request while they tried to get Pettersson going without the pressure or distraction of Miller being in the same space.

The team insulated Pettersson. They chose to protect their little $11.6M muffin and Miller finally has had all he could handle of the situation. He took a leave of absence to sort through it, but I wouldn’t be shocked if the team wanted that time to see if Pettersson could re-engage…..and he did…..sort of. So then Miller requests a trade because the team is choosing Pettersson over him.

I don’t care how “professional” you are, that sort of thing will destroy a room. Coddling a guy who is being paid more than twice the cheddar than everyone not named Miller, Hughes, and Hronek…..and he’s got a pouty attitude and can’t come close to living up to his cap hit…..the combination won’t fly. Then factor the team choosing to go with that guy over the horse who has pulled the weight for the last 5 seasons…..not going to sit well. That sort of behaviour is going to have more than just one guy wanting out. But none of them will outright say it. The “code” doesn’t allow for that.

I also interpret Allvin's comments about Petey - “he should be a number one center” as twofold in their intent. Firstly, as a challenge and endorsement of Pettersson in hopes to motivate and inspire him. Secondly, pumping his asset value publicly.

Time will tell, but I’m betting that if you move out Pettersson the entire room resets because it will be seen as a sort of “apology” from management to the players for their handling of this, and for committing like this to a player who has had a 6 season history of times or questionable commitment.

Either way, you have to try and fix this now because otherwise you have to blow it up. Miller wants out? I can’t see Boeser wanting to stay right now. Hughes and Demko likely both saying “see ya never” the following two seasons. Garland will look for greener pastures. The Canucks will become a destination for players who can’t get a contract in a more desirable destination.

Interesting theory..

If Miller asked for a trade, in other words is bailing on the team, then he gets moved before they think about moving EP...

When you have the return assets in a deal for JT, then management will assess where it goes from there...

But to trade EP and have JT whose asked for a trade still on the roster makes no sense to me...

If the EP was close to being dealt rumor is true, then I have to think JT did not ask to be dealt...

When I watch the games involving teams linked to either of them, the player I see them most needing is JT...especially a team like New Jersey who are overly soft at the centre position...

Unless the team goes on a heater starting yesterday, I think that they let the season play out and if it keeps going win one, lose 2 or 3 they start focussing on the trade deadline in March and the draft...

For a team like the Devils, I think JT has more value at the deadline ...They don't need him for a regular season run, they need him for the more physical and grueling playoff run...

As for Hughes and Demko wanting out, its too early to be sounding the alarm bells over contracts coming due after next season and beyond...

And with Demko, he's one of the reasons the team is where its at...If heathy and playing to his standards coupled with Lankinens play the team would be comfortably in a playoff position..

Boeser, love the person but if he wants out there are replacements in Abbotsford who may be able to do the job as well if not better than he has been doing this season...

Take care...