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[Strangelove]

And it doesn't matter who founded that party once upon a time (no Nazism going on now).

yeah, right.....

https://www.jewishorangeny.org/jta/1590253

https://www.thelocal.se/20180830/two-sw ... er-support

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jews-are- ... aker-says/

Okay you win, I guess Sweden is going Nazi, guess they're not following Trump after all.

The Allies may need to get the band back together again...

[Per]

Not everyone taking an "anti-immigration" stance belongs to that particular party amirite?

(though the fact that party is dramatically increasing in popularity is entirely relevant)

Also it is not racist (you seem to imply it is racist) to take an anti-immigration stance.

Not just them, but mainly them. Both the conservatives and the social democrats have lost voters to the Sweden Democrats, and have to some extent tried to win them back by becoming more "tough on immigration". It kind of backfires though, because that has caused them to also lose voters concerned about human rights to other parties that are softer on immigration.

You see, most Swedes are convinced the influx of immigrants makes us stronger:
https://nordic.businessinsider.com/this ... er-2016-7/

Which I fully believe as well. Historically, the nations that have had the most immigrants have been the strongest. Look at the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the USA at its peak, etc.

Furthermore, the aging population in Sweden (and basically all of Europe + Japan) is a ticking time bomb. As people live longer and longer while people choose to have less than two children per family on average, there is no way we are going to be able to take care of our elderly.

There are basically four possible solutions:

1) Kill people once they reach a certain age.
For moral and ethical reasons, this is a no-go.

2) Get rid of retirement, or at least raise the retirement age to 75.
Possible, but highly impopular.

3) Force people to have more children.
Again, moral and ethical reasons make this problematic. See the Handmaid's Tale.

4) Maintain a steady inflow of working age people
to keep the economy growing so that we can afford pensions and care for the elderly.

Personally I think number four is the only workable solution.
Sweden is bigger than Japan. We have ten million people, they have 120 million. There is plenty of room to take in more people here, and as I see it that is the only possible way we can afford to maintain the well fare society we have today.

As for your last suggestion, technically I am sure you can be against immigration without being racist, but in my experience racism is the most common reason for it. At least if you oppose all immigration.

Most sensible people realize that immigration needs to be controlled. Mainly because other countries control it. If migration was completely uncontrolled, Ii think it would regulate itself, just like the free market is the best way to determine price and production levels. But since almost all countries regulate migration, it can prove disastrous for a single country to allow free immigration, as the influx would be to dramatic to handle in the short term. Sort of what we experienced in 2015.

Sweden has now adjusted its rules to standard EU practice, and the pressure is off. Most Swedes would prefer more generous rules, but we realize that we need to be in synch with the rest of Europe. Thus we are now trying to make the entire EU become more like Sweden or Germany, but many of the former communist countries in the east disagree.

[2Fingers]

As always well written Per.

A lot of common sense.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Per is well versed in all this as its pretty well a full time job defending the mass migration policies of the Swedish government.

The reality is a substantial population of average swedes are not happy no matter how many spins are placed on the wonders and joys of having a hostile group of people setting up their new colony within the welcoming borders of Sverige.

Call them the undereducated, uniformed, insignificant all you like...the Swedes i interact with on an almost daily basis are almost all educated and informed. The fact that SD has made significant gains with a history of Nazism in their not too distant past should be a huge wake up call.

Having gone for a few night time drives around southern and western swedish cities like Malmo, Trollhatten, Vanersborg, Gothenburg etc i have witnessed myself hordes of north african migrant "children"...exclusively male between 15-30 yelling and harassing passing vehicles including our own.

To say there isn't a huge problem there is pretty consistent with the left wing diatribe in modern day Sweden Per.

[Topper]

Hilarious sidenote:

The Conservatives released a short film prior to these elections, about how Sweden is falling apart, and the funny thing is, it turned out the footage of burning cars they used was not from a Gothenburg suburb, as stated, but from the riots in Vancouver following the loss to the Bruins...



Not saying that there have not been cars burning in Sweden, but their screw up in choice of footage sort of helps underline that what happens here is in no way unique. There are idiots everywhere. Even in Vancouver.

Sedin legacy.

[Strangelove]

[Strangelove]

most Swedes are convinced the influx of immigrants makes us stronger:
https://nordic.businessinsider.com/this ... er-2016-7/

Well we've already agreed the anti-immigrant sentiment has been growing in leaps and bounds over the past few years

... and your link is from over two years ago, so.

Don't forget this from your link:

"Swedes aren't all positive however, and in some regards Sweden is even amongst the most prejudiced.
The Local notes that Sweden had the second highest proportion (46%) of respondents who thought that 'refugees in our country today are more to blame for crime than other groups', for example."

And since the poll (2.2 years ago) Sweden has become even more "prejudiced"... right?

Historically, the nations that have had the most immigrants have been the strongest. Look at the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire...

These empires invaded and occupied countless other nations, how is this relevant...

Furthermore, the aging population in Sweden (and basically all of Europe + Japan) is a ticking time bomb. As people live longer and longer while people choose to have less than two children per family on average, there is no way we are going to be able to take care of our elderly.

There are basically four possible solutions:

1) Kill people once they reach a certain age.
For moral and ethical reasons, this is a no-go.

2) Get rid of retirement, or at least raise the retirement age to 75.
Possible, but highly impopular.

3) Force people to have more children.
Again, moral and ethical reasons make this problematic. See the Handmaid's Tale.

4) Maintain a steady inflow of working age people
to keep the economy growing so that we can afford pensions and care for the elderly.

Some would say that Sweden's prolific abortion rate has led to this crisis.

Not me, but some would!

I would simply point out that no matter how one looks at it, Sweden has dug itself a massive hole.

I would suspect that famous Swedish liberalism is to blame.

Interesting then that your solution involves... more liberalism.

Solution #4 (your stated preference) relies on these immigrants supporting themselves and others.

... but I keep hearing the anti-immigrant folk in Sweden screaming:

"Immigrants have bled the welfare system dry!"

So yeah the anti-immigration folk are saying your solution actually makes things worse

... due to the costs associated with more crime and more welfare.

My solution?

Yeah, there is no solution, Sweden will continue her descent into madness/anarchy, oh well you had a good run...

Most sensible people realize that immigration needs to be controlled. Mainly because other countries control it. If migration was completely uncontrolled, Ii think it would regulate itself, just like the free market is the best way to determine price and production levels. But since almost all countries regulate migration, it can prove disastrous for a single country to allow free immigration, as the influx would be to dramatic to handle in the short term. Sort of what we experienced in 2015.

Yep, madness...

[Mickey107]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=sweden+i ... 20&bih=943

Incredible...

[2Fingers]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=sweden+i ... 20&bih=943

Incredible...

Which one?

it opens to a google search.

[SKYO]

Wow they found the murderer of Marrisa Shen at Burnaby Central Park finally, the murderer was a Syrian refugee who has lived in Canada for 4 months.

After more than a year of investigation and over 2,300 “investigative tasks” completed, investigators announced on Monday morning they have arrested and charged a 28-year-old man with first-degree murder in connection with the death of Burnaby teen Marrisa Shen last year.

Richardson described Ali as a Syrian national who had been been living in Burnaby as a permanent resident, for four months, before Shen’s death. She noted he was not previously known to police, and did not have a criminal record.

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/marrisa- ... arged-2018

[Per]

Furthermore, the aging population in Sweden (and basically all of Europe + Japan) is a ticking time bomb. As people live longer and longer while people choose to have less than two children per family on average, there is no way we are going to be able to take care of our elderly.

There are basically four possible solutions:

1) Kill people once they reach a certain age.
For moral and ethical reasons, this is a no-go.

2) Get rid of retirement, or at least raise the retirement age to 75.
Possible, but highly impopular.

3) Force people to have more children.
Again, moral and ethical reasons make this problematic. See the Handmaid's Tale.

4) Maintain a steady inflow of working age people
to keep the economy growing so that we can afford pensions and care for the elderly.

Some would say that Sweden's prolific abortion rate has led to this crisis.

Not me, but some would!

I would simply point out that no matter how one looks at it, Sweden has dug itself a massive hole.

I would suspect that famous Swedish liberalism is to blame.

Yeahno....

As I pointed out, it's a problem for all of Europe, plus Japan.

Actually, for a European nation, Sweden is doing OK. Look here:



Only France has a higher fertility rate, ours is higher than that of Ireland!
Yup. We're going at it like rabbits!

But here's the thing - to maintain a steady population you need 2.1 live births per woman. The .1 is to compensate for children who die before reaching adulthood. No coumtry in Europe is even close. And Japan is even worse at 1.4. Or, well, I guess Spain, Greece, Portugal are worse than that, but Japan is worse than the European average.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ility_rate

Btw, seems the rate for the USA is 1.8 and just 1.6 for Canada.
So...... Stones. Glass house. Caution.

But the main problem is that people keep living longer and longer. When we introduced a guaranteed minimum pension for all, that windfall only came when you reached the mature age of 67, and life expectancy back then just happened to be 67.

Furthermore, most people started working at the ripe age of 14, after having completed six years of school.

Today people start working at 25ish, after typically 13 years of school (including kindergarten), four years of college and at least one year of travelling the earth, finding themselves, or whatever. They retire at 65 and live till they're 82.

The new scheme is of course far more costly, especially since the population pyramid no longer resembles a pyramid, but more a corroded pillar. The pyramid shaped population actually works like a working pyramid scheme. Since the old people at the top were so few, compared to the working people that made up the main part of the pyramid, the cost of taking care of them was insignificant. The corroded pillar that keeps growing taller is a different story.

[Mickey107]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=sweden+i ... 20&bih=943

Incredible...

Which one?

it opens to a google search.

For you to take some time and go through. Many statistics. They paint pictures.
It is good to be informed.
Really.
I'm "Sure".

[Strangelove]

Actually, for a European nation, Sweden is doing OK. Look here:



Only France has a higher fertility rate, ours is higher than that of Ireland!
Yup. We're going at it like rabbits!

Psssst... it's the immigrants who are multiplying.

[Strangelove]

Wow they found the murderer of Marrisa Shen at Burnaby Central Park finally, the murderer was a Syrian refugee who has lived in Canada for 4 months.

[2Fingers]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=sweden+i ... 20&bih=943

Incredible...

Which one?

it opens to a google search.

For you to take some time and go through. Many statistics. They paint pictures.
It is good to be informed.
Really.
I'm "Sure".

Sure Mick sure.