US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond

[Per]

+Nice too have you here Per. You manage to make the points I want to make without the homocidal underlying flavour. You go Per. Just do not expect to change minds with intelligent arguments. I live in the States and am afraid for my kids and grandkids.

Thanks, dbm. Nice to have you here too. I quite enjoy reading your posts!

[Strangelove]

+Nice too have you here Per. You manage to make the points I want to make without the homocidal underlying flavour.

So if I'm reading you correctly, what you're saying is...

Per makes points with a homosexual underlying flavour?

Just do not expect to change minds with intelligent arguments. I live in the States and am afraid for my kids and grandkids

... because they're gonna have the reincarnation of Hitler for a president?

BTW. I do not mind the hair piece. A guy has to do what he has to do. Fortunately I have a full head of hair but no Porsche. See a lot of balding men my age driving around in expensive cars and I toodle along in my cheap paid for ride WITH a full head of hair

I don't even want to know how you found out Per wears a hairpiece and drives a Porsche...

[Strangelove]

Thanks, dbm. Nice to have you here too. I quite enjoy your posts!

Well isn't that special.

Who doesn't love watching a pair of lefties in the early stages of a bromance.

[Strangelove]

Putin has violently subdued uprisings in eg Chechenya.

Here in the West we call Putin’s enemies in Chechnya: “terrorists”.

Those who attack civilians = “terrorists”.

He has invaded parts of Georgia and the Ukraine, and even annected the Crimea peninsula, which is part of Ukraine, to Russia.

Correction: He has supported separatists in Georgia and Crimea.

Separatists who wanted to rejoin Russia.

You do realize Georgia and Crimea were Russian states for hundreds of years until recently right?

To facilitate future interventions "to defend Russian minorities" he has offered any citizen of any country that used to be part of the Soviet Union or the Russian Empire the right to Russian citizenship. That includes all Finns.

Well now, I’d say that’s mighty magnanimous of him!

And at the same time he states that Putin will never invade the Ukraine. Newsflash! He already did!

Many folk (including most Crimeans) never saw themselves as part of the Ukraine.

It’s okay if you want to consider Crimea as part of the Ukraine (only 13 years total though!)

... but yeah, many of us see Crimea as belonging to Russia for 220 years... and counting.

I see you are buying the Putin narrative hook, line and sinker.

The truth is the truth.

Now, the Chechens, if any, deserve the label separatists. They have fought for independence since the 1780's, but to little avail. They don't see themselves as Russians.

Sure the Chechens are separatists.

But you said "Putin has violently subdued uprisings in Chechenya"... as if he were some kind of monster.

I simply responded that Putin was responding to terrorism.

Putin is not the bad guy here.

As for attacking civilians... Who was really responsible for the apartment bombings of 1999?
In one building some of the tennants discovered people placing explosives there and managed to prevent that building from being blown up. Those people spoke with Russian accents, and the explosives were of the typical KGB/FSB kind, according to a policeman who investigated the scene and then was fired and imprisoned on drugs and bribe taking charges.
https://postsovietpost.stanford.edu/dis ... ngs-russia

That's all you've got?

Harebrained leftists conspiracy theories?

Hillarious!

The "separatists" in Ukraine oddly enough have access to Russian tanks and artillery, and Russian soldiers keep coming home in body bags despite not officially being on the scene.... It's all very strange.

More conspiracies, if Russia had done anything wrong surely the mighty NATO would've smacked her down.

Besides, you may consider Crimea part of Russia, but the UN, the EU, the USA and Canada do not*

People have a right to their opinions.

I was merely explaining to you what the Donald may have been thinking with that comment.

And hey, when he becomes President... the UN + USA + Canada might change their opinions on that!

(no one care what the EU thinks)

, it has been part of Ukraine since 1954

... and the Ukraine was part of Russia for 37 of those years.

Crimeans were split down the middle about remaining in the Ukraine if it broke away from Russia (1991)

23 years later (sorry, I originally said 13 years) during the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution

... most Crimeans were in favour of returning to Russia.

Furthermore, since WW2 the international community has considered it illegal to change borders by force.

If Russia had done anything wrong surely the mighty NATO would've smacked her down.

I wasn't going to re-re-respond to this because, as I said, we're way off-topic.

But then I thought... What the hell.

[Per]

But then I thought... What the hell.

Aaaah... You've missed me...


For a quick revisit to the topic on hand, here's an Australian's take on The Donald:

[Per]

But... What the hell...

I see you are buying the Putin narrative hook, line and sinker.

The truth is the truth.

The True Champions of Truth (or "truthiness"):
Vlad the Impaler, Don the Con* Man and Doc Strangelove...

*I do not care if you're from Boston, do NOT pronounce this Kahn, The Donald hates all that that implies.

Sure the Chechens are separatists.

But you said "Putin has violently subdued uprisings in Chechenya"... as if he were some kind of monster.

Well, the key Word here is "violently" as in indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas. Basically bombing Chechenya back to the stone age. Not to mention the systematic use of torture and assassinations.

I know that you know, so I'm going to be lazy and just refer you to a wikipedia summary:

American Secretary of State Madeleine Albright noted in her 24 March 2000, speech to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights:
We cannot ignore the fact that thousands of Chechen civilians have died and more than 200,000 have been driven from their homes. Together with other delegations, we have expressed our alarm at the persistent, credible reports of human rights violations by Russian forces in Chechnya, including extrajudicial killings. There are also reports that Chechen separatists have committed abuses, including the killing of civilians and prisoners.... The war in Chechnya has greatly damaged Russia's international standing and is isolating Russia from the international community. Russia's work to repair that damage, both at home and abroad, or its choice to risk further isolating itself, is the most immediate and momentous challenge that Russia faces.

According to the 2001 annual report by Amnesty International:
There were frequent reports that Russian forces indiscriminately bombed and shelled civilian areas. Chechen civilians, including medical personnel, continued to be the target of military attacks by Russian forces. Hundreds of Chechen civilians and prisoners of war were extra judicially executed. Journalists and independent monitors continued to be refused access to Chechnya. ---

In 2001 the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum has placed Chechnya on its Genocide Watch List:
Chechnya was devastated, including the almost complete destruction of Grozny, the Chechen capital. Russian artillery and air indiscriminately pounded populated areas. Human rights organizations also documented several massacres of civilians by Russian units. Russian President Vladimir Putin proclaimed Chechnya pacified by Spring 2000. But peace has been elusive for Chechen civilians, victims of a continuing war of attrition. They are plagued by abuses committed by Russian forces – arbitrary arrest, extortion, torture, murder. Chechen civilians also suffer because there have been no sustained efforts to rebuild basic social services, such as public utilities or education. Chechen fighters also commit abuses against civilians, but neither on the same scale nor with the same intensity as Russian forces.

The Russian government failed to pursue any accountability process for human rights abuses committed during the course of the conflict in Chechnya. Unable to secure justice domestically, hundreds of victims of abuse have filed applications with the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). In March 2005 the court issued the first rulings on Chechnya, finding the Russian government guilty of violating the right to life and even the prohibition of torture with respect to civilians who had died or forcibly disappeared at the hands of Russia's federal troops. Many similar claims were ruled since against Russia.

Dozens of mass graves containing hundreds of corpses have been uncovered since the beginning of the First Chechen War in 1994. As of June 2008, there were 57 registered locations of mass graves in Chechnya. According to Amnesty International, thousands may be buried in unmarked graves including up to 5,000 civilians who disappeared since the beginning of the Second Chechen War in 1999. In 2008, the largest mass grave found to date was uncovered in Grozny, containing some 800 bodies from the First Chechen War in 1995. Russia's general policy to the Chechen mass graves is to not exhume them.
---
According to a 2006 report by Médecins Sans Frontières, "the majority of Chechens still struggle through lives burdened by fear, uncertainty and poverty." A survey conducted by MSF in September 2005 showed that 77% of the respondents were suffering from "discernible symptoms of psychological distress".

As of 2008, the infant mortality rate stood at 17 per 1,000, the highest in Russia; There are reports of growing a number of genetic disorders in babies and unexplained illnesses among school children. One child in 10 is born with some kind of anomaly that requires treatment. Some children whose parents can afford it are sent to the neighbouring republic of Dagestan, where treatment is better; Chechnya lacks sufficient medical equipment in most of its medical facilities. According to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), since 1994 to 2008 about 25,000 children in Chechnya have lost one or both parents. A whole generation of Chechen children is showing symptoms of psychological trauma. In 2006, Chechnya's pro-Moscow deputy health minister, said the Chechen children had become "living specimens" of what it means to grow up with the constant threat of violence and chronic poverty. In 2007, the Chechen interior ministry has identified 1,000 street children involved in vagrancy; the number was increasing.

According to official statistics, Chechnya's unemployment rate in August 2009 was 32.9%. Although the second highest among Russian regions, the unemployment rate has almost halved since 2007. Many people remain homeless because so much of Chechnya's housing was destroyed by the Russian federal forces and many people have not yet been given compensation. Not only the social (such as housing and hospitals) and economic infrastructure but also the foundations of culture and education, including most of educational and cultural institutions, were destroyed over the course of the two wars in Chechnya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

How was it you phrased it again? Oh yeah, "Those who attack civilians = “terrorists”."

Putin is not the bad guy here.

Putin is always the bad guy. He's a KGB coronel.
Haven't you watched any movies? How often are KGB the good guys?

Harebrained leftists conspiracy theories?

Hillarious!

Yes, written by a fellow the famously leftist Hoover Institution conservative think tank, founded by (and named for) the famously leftist Herbert Hoover, and published on their famously leftist home page.

Seriously, the only people that would consider them leftist must be to the right of Ghengis Khan.
(Oops, forgot, shouldn't say Khan... )

The "separatists" in Ukraine oddly enough have access to Russian tanks and artillery, and Russian soldiers keep coming home in body bags despite not officially being on the scene.... It's all very strange.

--- if Russia had done anything wrong surely the mighty NATO would've smacked her down.

Furthermore, since WW2 the international community has considered it illegal to change borders by force.

If Russia had done anything wrong surely the mighty NATO would've smacked her down.

Ummmm... No.

NATO is an alliance that has the stated purpose to defend its members. Ukraine is not a member.
To attempt to drive out the Russian forces from Ukraine territory by sending in NATO troops would surely mean WW3. Thus the faint protests. The EU, USA and others are punishing Russia with trade embargoes and token military and monetary support to the Ukrainian government, but no real effort to put things right.

This is our Sudetenland moment. Just as Hitler "saw himself forced" to intervene in Czechoslovakia to "protect the interests" of the German minority there, Putin now claims to "be forced" to intervene in Ukraine to "protect the interest" of the Russian minority. It's very chilling for all nations that harbour Russian minorities. Estonia. Latvia. Poland. Lithuania. Georgia. Even Finland. Guess the Belarussians don't care much either way; put-ah-to/put-ay-to in their case...

Any way, if Putin invaded eg Poland or Latvia, NATO would have to act, or lose all credibility.

Ukraine? No. Can't touch that, as MC Hammer would say.

, it has been part of Ukraine since 1954

... and the Ukraine was part of Russia for 37 of those years.

No. It was part of the Soviet Union. Huge difference.
Russia was one of several soviet republics, that together constituted the Soviet Union.
When the Soviet Union split up, the new countries that were formed maintained the borders of the former Soviet Republics. Thus the Ukrainian Soviet Republic became Ukraine, maintaing the very same borders as an independent nation that it had had as a Soviet Republic. Parts of Ukraine were part of Russia prior to 1917, but that is a different story.

... most Crimeans were in favour of returning to Russia.

According to a referendum held under illegal occupation of a foreign force, and then of course only according to what the occupying army tells us.

Afaik, no country except Russia consider that referendum valid or even legal, so it has no significance whatsoever, other than for Putin's white washing purposes.

In 1917, 96.4% of eligible voters on the Åland Islands signed a petition to become part of Sweden. The archipelago had been part of Sweden since at least the 13th Century, and its inhabitants were/are Swedish speaking, but it was seized by Russia in 1809, along with Finland, and became part of the Grand Duchy of Finland under Russian rule. As Finland declared itself independent during the Russian revolution, the Ålanders stated that they wanted to become part of Sweden again, but Finland did not agree to this. In 1921 the League of Nations ruled on the matter and awarded the islands to Finland, disregarding the historic ties to Sweden and the wish of the inhabitants. It had been part of Finland since 1809 (even though this was a Russian duchy rather than an independent nation) and that was all that mattered. (It became a demilitarised and autonomous region though, and today it has special tax free zone status within the EU, which allows us to buy cheap booze there.)

I can't help but see the parallells here.

[Per]

I knew there were still some sane republicans out there!

50 former national security officials who have served in senior positions in republican administrations, including names like John Negroponte, Michael Hayden, Tom Ridge, Robert McCallum, William Tobey and William H. Taft IV, explain why Donald Trump is unfit to serve as POTUS:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... letter.pdf

[Mickey107]

I knew there were still some sane republicans out there!

50 former national security officials who have served in senior positions in republican administrations, including names like John Negroponte, Michael Hayden, Tom Ridge, Robert McCallum, William Tobey and William H. Taft IV, explain why Donald Trump is unfit to serve as POTUS:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... letter.pdf

If I may ask: How did you feel about the direction of the United States during the last two years of the "Jimmy Carter" era?

[damonberryman]

Thanks, dbm. Nice to have you here too. I quite enjoy your posts!

Well isn't that special.

Who doesn't love watching a pair of lefties in the early stages of a bromance.

Oh Strangie. What to do with you? You just do not know how to learn new info and take it in without regressing to homosexual innuendo. You are getting as predictable as Blob. (the smiley face is for the mods)

[Per]

If I may ask: How did you feel about the direction of the United States during the last two years of the "Jimmy Carter" era?

I was 15 in 1978 and living in Sweden. I don't really think I gave it much thought.
Think I went to a jamboree on Ireland and bought my first frisbee. The pope died.
Frigging Skellefteå won the championship , but the Sundström twins were showing some promise on Björklöven, even if they didn't really have their breakout season till 1980/81.
Björn Borg won his third Wimbledon title and Ingemar Stenmark was dominating the alpine circuit.

All I remember thinking about Jimmy is that I was impressed he managed to broker a peace deal between Israel and Egypt.

[Per]

l
Thanks, dbm. Nice to have you here too. I quite enjoy your posts!

Well isn't that special.

Who doesn't love watching a pair of lefties in the early stages of a bromance.

Just for you, Doc:

Btw, many people are saying that Putin and Trump have a serious crush for eachother.
Not me, but many people do say that. I really don't know. You tell me.
#ManyPeopleAreSaying

https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23 ... earesaying



This is a mural in a street in Vilnius, Lithuania.
As I said, many people do say that.

[griz]

You mean he'll be anti-globalism? Good. I think countries as geographically huge and resource diverse as Canada and the US should be self sufficient.

You obviously know next to nothing about economics!

Per, I believe Canada and the US are large and diverse enough that sustainability could be achieved.

Are you a fan of globalization?

from : https://ourfiniteworld.com/2013/02/22/t ... e-problem/

Globalization uses up finite resources more quickly.

Globalization increases world carbon dioxide emissions.

Globalization makes it virtually impossible for regulators in one country to foresee the worldwide implications of their actions.

Globalization acts to increase world oil prices.

Globalization transfers consumption of limited oil supply from developed countries to developing countries.

Globalization transfers jobs from developed countries to less developed countries.

Globalization transfers investment spending from developed countries to less developed countries.

With the dollar as the world’s reserve currency, globalization leads to huge US balance of trade deficits and other imbalances.

Globalization tends to move taxation away from corporations, and onto individual citizens.

Globalization sets up a currency “race to the bottom,” with each country trying to get an export advantage by dropping the value of its currency.

Globalization encourages dependence on other countries for essential goods and services.

Globalization ties countries together, so that if one country collapses, the collapse is likely to ripple through the system, pulling many other countries with it.

This is why communist countries always go belly up. Self-sufficiency looks good on paper, but it DOES NOT WORK!
And yeah, some non-communist countries such as Spain under Franco, or Argentina under Peron, have also tried it. Result? Economic disaster. Banning competition does not make you a better athlete. It makes you fat, lazy and improductive. And you end up paying more for inferior products.

I believe in shopping locally. Or better yet, to become more sustainable as individuals. Grow your own food. Gather your own energy. I do. That does not make me a Communist. Nor do I believe in banning competition.

The advantages of free trade are so fundamental that no serious person with any insight into the matter can question it. And we've known that for more than 200 years now.

The High Price of Free Trade : http://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp147/

See North Korea, a poster child for the ideal of self sufficiency.

North Korea seems more like where globalization will take us.

Besides, you may consider Crimea part of Russia, but the UN, the EU, the USA and Canada do not*, it has been part of Ukraine since 1954. Furthermore, since WW2 the international community has considered it illegal to change borders by force.

The Coup of Ukraine was just fine to you?

Make sure your kids get a good education, and they will always be able to make a good living.

Right, because all of the highly educated burger flippers are making a good living working for minimum wage trying to pay off their student loans.

[Topper]

YES to Globalization!


.......waiting for second amendment supporters to take care of Hillary.........

[Strangelove]

Sure the Chechens are separatists.

But you said "Putin has violently subdued uprisings in Chechenya"... as if he were some kind of monster.

Well, the key Word here is "violently" as in indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas. Basically bombing Chechenya back to the stone age. Not to mention the systematic use of torture and assassinations.

I know that you know, so I'm going to be lazy and just refer you to a wikipedia summary:

*blah blah carefully selected segments from Wikipedia's section on the Second Chechen War blah blah*

How was it you phrased it again? Oh yeah, "Those who attack civilians = “terrorists”."

Ummm just chalk it all up to collateral damage + unsubstantiated accusations mmmkay?

You've raged likewise against Israel and Bush, nothing to see here folks, just a typical deranged leftist...

Putin is not the bad guy here.

Putin is always the bad guy. He's a KGB coronel.

Haven't you watched any movies? How often are KGB the good guys?

Yeah well this ain't the movies Pear.

And the KGB hasn't been around since the Ukraine was part of the USSR...

"1999 Russian Apartment Bombings False-Flag Inside-Job conspiracy theory"

Harebrained leftists conspiracy theories?

Hillarious!

Yes, written by a fellow the famously leftist Hoover Institution conservative think tank, founded by (and named for) the famously leftist Herbert Hoover, and published on their famously leftist home page.

Oh pulease.

This harebrained leftist conspiracy theory is held in the same regard as "911 Truthers' conspiracy".

Only Hoover Institution connection I can find is that David Satter wrote about said harebrained theory in a book.

(David Satter was a fellow at the Hoover Institution for 5 years - 2003-08)

(therefore was allowed to post articles on their site... of which I found two about the bombings)

(neither of which promoted said harebrained theory)

Yeahno...

the inventors/proponents of this harebrained theory are hardcore commies such as Felshtinsky and Kagarlitsky.

Harebrained leftist conspiracy theory nuts tend to run wild with harebrained leftist conspiracy theories.

(no offense intended)

BTW David Satter was expelled from Russia for allegedly soliciting under-age prostitutes...

EDIT: finally read your link, okay Hoover fellow Dunlop lent some support to the theory, my point remains

(you don't have to be a leftist to like the theory, but it helps!)

If Russia had done anything wrong surely the mighty NATO would've smacked her down.

Ummmm... No.

NATO is an alliance that has the stated purpose to defend its members. Ukraine is not a member.

Hmmm, so if Russia invaded Sweden today....

But seriously, how do you explain NATO's involvement in things like saaay... Libya?

, it has been part of Ukraine since 1954

... and the Ukraine was part of Russia for 37 of those years.

No. It was part of the Soviet Union. Huge difference.

Okay, let me rephrase:

"... and the Ukraine was part of USSR for 37 of those years"

... and now it's part of Russia!

Russia was one of several soviet republics, that together constituted the Soviet Union.
When the Soviet Union split up, the new countries that were formed maintained the borders of the former Soviet Republics. Thus the Ukrainian Soviet Republic became Ukraine, maintaing the very same borders as an independent nation that it had had as a Soviet Republic. Parts of Ukraine were part of Russia prior to 1917, but that is a different story.

Similar to Crimea being an Autonomous Republic of USSR and later of Ukraine.

(which was still a USSR Republic at the time)

Crimea has a long history with USSR/Russia.

In fact, most Crimeans are ethnic Russians (only 15% are Ukrainian)

It was only a matter of time until they spurned the Ukraine in favour of their Russkie brethren.

(they were railroaded into becoming an autonomous republic of the Ukraine in the first place)

[Strangelove]

+Nice too have you here Per. You manage to make the points I want to make without the homocidal underlying flavour.

So if I'm reading you correctly, what you're saying is...

Per makes points with a homosexual underlying flavour?

Just do not expect to change minds with intelligent arguments. I live in the States and am afraid for my kids and grandkids

... because they're gonna have the reincarnation of Hitler for a president?

BTW. I do not mind the hair piece. A guy has to do what he has to do. Fortunately I have a full head of hair but no Porsche. See a lot of balding men my age driving around in expensive cars and I toodle along in my cheap paid for ride WITH a full head of hair

I don't even want to know how you found out Per wears a hairpiece and drives a Porsche...

Oh Strangie. What to do with you? You just do not know how to learn new info and take it in without regressing to homosexual innuendo. You are getting as predictable as Blob. (the smiley face is for the mods)

Hey man if I misread your overtures to Per I apologize...