The Petey Predicament

[2Fingers]

Based upon the comments here we might as well fold up the camp and forget this team for the next 6-7 years or until they trade EP40.

Really sad state of the team and being a fan.

[donlever]

The likely scenario is its a combination of both, physical and mental.

Yeah, I agree this could be it as well.

[donlever]

You think the team was going to get in front of that when they had a 14 month window still to trade him?

Agree or disagree quality post Mëds.

[Meds]

Off balance twice...once when what appears relatively lightly checked by the defender.

The second when he turns to congratulate Boeser on the goal.

The back to front transition on the latter looks like someone learning to skate backwards to forwards/vice versa.

Optics like this result in me posing the question about both his knee and his skating.

https://x.com/CanucksArmy/status/197650 ... IG7_g&s=19

Lancer brings up his wrist.

Maybe dude is just one of those humans that doesn't fit back together properly once damaged.

Donny, I don't actually see too much difference in that clip to other times when I've watched him going back to when he was a rookie. We saw it less as a rookie because he was surprising the entire league, but after that first season, and certainly after his ELC, opponents played him more physically and knocked him off stride more often.

His skating was always peg-legged and he goes over a lot. I agree about knees being an issue. Topper, on numerous occasions, commented on Scooter's skating, often pointing that his stride came through his knees rather than his hips.....not only does that reduce the power of the stride and the player's overall balance/stability when it comes to contact and quick changes of direction/momentum, it also will put far more strain on the knees.

I cannot recall who it was (probably Topper though) who pointed out that maybe the reason we got a kid, with IQ and skill like Pettersson's, at 5th overall, was because other scouts and GM's identified his skating as a problem and, when mixed with his physique, didn't think he would be able to overcome it to translate into a successful NHL player.

[JelloPuddingPop]

I cannot recall who it was (probably Topper though) who pointed out that maybe the reason we got a kid, with IQ and skill like Pettersson's, at 5th overall, was because other scouts and GM's identified his skating as a problem and, when mixed with his physique, didn't think he would be able to overcome it to translate into a successful NHL player.

I am going to call this one out.

In what world is 465 points in 484 games, while being solid defensively not a successful NHL player.

I understand the payscale here. But taking his contract out of the equation... Petey is FAR from a bust of a 5th overall pick. In fact, exactly the opposite.

The other scouts/GMs would have loved to get him back then. They just likely wouldn't have signed him to a stupidly large contract.

[Lancer]

I cannot recall who it was (probably Topper though) who pointed out that maybe the reason we got a kid, with IQ and skill like Pettersson's, at 5th overall, was because other scouts and GM's identified his skating as a problem and, when mixed with his physique, didn't think he would be able to overcome it to translate into a successful NHL player.

I am going to call this one out.

In what world is 465 points in 484 games, while being solid defensively not a successful NHL player.

I understand the payscale here. But taking his contract out of the equation... Petey is FAR from a bust of a 5th overall pick. In fact, exactly the opposite.

The other scouts/GMs would have loved to get him back then. They just likely wouldn't have signed him to a stupidly large contract.

Indeed, perhaps our expectations are the problem. People see what Petey has done, and the 100-point season he teased us with a couple years ago, and expect a Swedish Sakic. We've seen enough of McDavid, Draisaitl and MacKinnon and want Petey on that level - or at least in that league.

What if his more accurate comparable is... Alexander Barkov? Barkov has never eclipsed 100 points, and never scored 40 goals. He's also the top centre on a Cup champion and makes $10 million a year. He's also won the Selke three times.

Petey's defensive game is mature and he's been mentioned in Selke conversation before. He may well score more points than Barkov over their respective careers. A big difference is the leadership aspect, but the team has their captain in Quinn.

Petey can be better. We've seen it. Can he get back there? Maybe, but it may come next week or next year. Either way, we also know he can't do it by himself. Barkov has the luxury of having Bennett stepping onto the ice when he goes off. I would offer Petey needs a 2C more than anyone else in order to take some of the offensive load and give other teams another centre to worry about. He had that in Miller until Miller decided to go 'Bad' Miller. (BTW, Miller isn't lighting the league on fire after he was given the keys to the locker room either).

Perhaps its better to focus less on how Petey isn't the player we want him to be, and more on building around him. We got him long-term as it is.

[Chef Boi RD]

It’s not Petey’s skating that concerns me. When he was at his best - the Alien, he was the smartest guy out on the ice, making sick moves on the regular, that calm over the top unpredictable confidence with the puck. That has completely disappeared. His anticipation and ability to make moves in a phone booth, what happened? Where’d it go? That stuff ain’t there like it once was. Somethings up.

[donlever]

The skating comment was brought up because if he is having issues it could fuck with his confidence/headspace creating the issues you describe as concerning.

[Cousin Strawberry]

It’s not Petey’s skating that concerns me. When he was at his best - the Alien, he was the smartest guy out on the ice, making sick moves on the regular, that calm overt the top unpredictable confuse with the puck. That has completely disappeared. His anticipation and ability to make moves in a phone booth, what happened? Where’d it go? And the shit ain’t there like it once was. Somethings up.

This^

And the only logical answer is...it's between his ears

[donlever]

It's not the only logical answer.

It's your only logical answer.

Like I said to you yesterday.

Get a better sports psychologist in if this is the case because who they are using ain't cutting it....

[Cousin Strawberry]

It's not the only logical answer.

It's your only logical answer.

Ok not the only. The most plausible to me

Better?

[donlever]

I cannot recall who it was (probably Topper though) who pointed out that maybe the reason we got a kid, with IQ and skill like Pettersson's, at 5th overall, was because other scouts and GM's identified his skating as a problem.....

In response to this:

Toppers comments during the Wild game, completely unsolicited.

Remember in 5th grade, public skating, there was that girl who had been skating on picks and then just got her first pair of hockey skates. That is scooter's steadiness in a nutshell.

[Cornuck]

One thing I've noticed is that the last few games, he hasn't been falling as much - but - he falls to his knees on almost every faceoff he takes. Progress?

[UWSaint]

Its hard to explain, how much Petey has fallen from a productivity perspective. When explanations aren't obvious, we all get into some pretty wild speculation territory. My personal worry is that everything his done in the past couple of years has been a childish response to the childish challenges to his manhood and less childish but still misguided attempts by Tochett to make every forward capable of playing like Tochett. Too weak. Get big and strong (and he seems to be, but not where it really counts in hockey (legs). Too soft on the opposition. Hit (and a lot more). And the problem with that is the problem that befalls so many players who are trying to make up for the things they were weak at -- they underuse the skills that made them exceptional and eventually those skills diminish. Add to the "weak" criticism a style of play that diminished the value of the rush and creativity (Tockey Hockey), and the things that made EP40 stand out above his peers weren't valued on his team -- and he largely excised them from his game.

See the thing about EP40s game is that his physical weakness wasn't holding him back as long as he was taking the game at the opposition. He still made plenty of chances for himself as a slight 20 year old kid. Because he had balls to try shit out, the hands to pull it off more than you'd think, and he had a wicked shot. He fell down a ton, the skating was awkward, but it often only enhanced a stick check becoming a trip as he took the puck at defensemen and the falling down led to lots and lots of power plays.

I think of Daniel and Henrik as sort of the anti-Petey. They were such twigs when they came into the league. There were drinking games for when they got knocked to the ice. They got much of the same criticism as EP40 (and had half the success EP40 had in their first few seasons). But what they did was increase their lower body strength and endurance to *enhance* what they did well, which was a possession game. They didn't try to become a different player. In the process, they went from being knocked down on contact to being nearly Forbergian or Jagrian in their ability to take physicality and maintain full possession (and balance). That's how they became among the league's best players. People will laugh when I say this, but they ultimately were power forwards with sick vision and excellent hands. Power forwards that didn't hit, to be sure -- but they won in all the dirty areas, and won using their leverage as pretty big dudes.

EP40s new size? Its kind of worthless as an enhancer of what made him a special player (though I do think it has helped his defensive game). Its another tool -- but the tools of a 3rd liner. If he can't get the first liner tools back, it doesn't matter.

I'd like to see him skate with the puck faster and more, shoot more, and dangle more (I am seeing this a bit more this season -- it hasn't yielded a lot of success yet). You know, all the shit Tochett didn't like. Play with some swagger, dude.

[Lancer]

Its hard to explain, how much Petey has fallen from a productivity perspective. When explanations aren't obvious, we all get into some pretty wild speculation territory. My personal worry is that everything his done in the past couple of years has been a childish response to the childish challenges to his manhood and less childish but still misguided attempts by Tochett to make every forward capable of playing like Tochett. Too weak. Get big and strong (and he seems to be, but not where it really counts in hockey (legs). Too soft on the opposition. Hit (and a lot more). And the problem with that is the problem that befalls so many players who are trying to make up for the things they were weak at -- they underuse the skills that made them exceptional and eventually those skills diminish. Add to the "weak" criticism a style of play that diminished the value of the rush and creativity (Tockey Hockey), and the things that made EP40 stand out above his peers weren't valued on his team -- and he largely excised them from his game.

EP40s new size? Its kind of worthless as an enhancer of what made him a special player (though I do think it has helped his defensive game). Its another tool -- but the tools of a 3rd liner. If he can't get the first liner tools back, it doesn't matter.

I'd like to see him skate with the puck faster and more, shoot more, and dangle more (I am seeing this a bit more this season -- it hasn't yielded a lot of success yet). You know, all the shit Tochett didn't like. Play with some swagger, dude.

There's probably some merit to the whole "he's getting coached out of his strengths" argument. His most productive season was the one split between Boudreau and Tocchet. Even Tocchet's first season the following year started off well. You can use the All-Star Break in 24 as the tipping point - whether it was injury, Tocchet-fatigue or whatever - because he was never the same afterwards. Maybe Petey got tired of trying to fit in a mold that didn't fit him.

In that light, no wonder Tocchet was a Miller vice Petey guy. Must have taken a lot for that straw to snap between them a year ago. Maybe that really was a bigger reason why Tocchet bolted in the offseason - with management choosing Petey over Miller, he saw that he and management were not aligned after all.

The question now is whether Foote is approaching Petey the same was as his old boss, or whether he has the wherewithal to admit his old boss and good friend fucked up with Petey and changes tack. I can imagine what conversations were had between management before and after they hired him to replace Tocchet.

Regardless, perhaps there's a middle-way between Boudreau's loosy-goosey anything-goes style and Tocchy-Hockey that would maximize Petey's (and other forwards') strengths vice a system obsessed with protecting the 'GOTI'. Maybe that unlocks Petey's potential. We'll see if Foote is up for the challenge.

Hell, anything is better than watch the Canucks go into a shell and play like they're hanging on by their fingernails every time the other team's first line hits the ice - especially Edmonton's.