2025 Canucks Off-season

[Picker of Cherries]

If they don’t sign or trade for anyone up front, which won’t happen, the line-up should be:

Joshua Raty Garland
Chytil EP40 Karlsson
DeBrusk Muller Hoglander
OConnor Blueger Sherwood
Sasson

Hughes DPetey
Pettersson Hronek
Forbort Myers
Kudryavtsev

Demko
Silovs
Lankinen

Got to hold onto three goalies until a trade is made involving one, so only one spare forward and one defensemen will be up with the team. Lots of competition to be first call up - Sasson, Blais, Bains and dark horses Kravtsov and Klimovich at forward. Same with D with Kudryavtsev, Willander, Mancini and dark horses Hirose, Woo and Beeezebois fighting for one spot. Silovs is the only waiver wire concern.

[Tciso]

Is this our forward group next season:

Hoglander EP40 Karlsson
DeBrusk Chytil Bains
Joshua Raty Garland
OConnor Blueger Sherwood

Sasson bottom 6 extra

But our defence!

The horror, the horror, the horror

Even with that lineup, we have $10m in cap. All is not lost.

[Chef Boi RD]

Is this our forward group next season:

Hoglander EP40 Karlsson
DeBrusk Chytil Bains
Joshua Raty Garland
OConnor Blueger Sherwood

Sasson bottom 6 extra

But our defence!

The horror, the horror, the horror

Even with that lineup, we have $10m in cap. All is not lost.

Uh, have you seen the field of UFA’s this summer? It’s bleak. It also doesn’t help calm the waters hearing the Canucks brass is pivoting back to trading for forward help, frustrated from the realization that the UFA’s out there have no interest in signing here.

Long term planning isn’t their strong suit. Say goodbye to the 2025 1st for a middling level forward. Joy to the world

[Tciso]

Is this our forward group next season:

Hoglander EP40 Karlsson
DeBrusk Chytil Bains
Joshua Raty Garland
OConnor Blueger Sherwood

Sasson bottom 6 extra

But our defence!

The horror, the horror, the horror

Even with that lineup, we have $10m in cap. All is not lost.

Uh, have you seen the field of UFA’s this summer? It’s bleak. It also doesn’t help calm the waters hearing the Canucks brass is pivoting back to trading for forward help, frustrated from the realization that the UFA’s out there have no interest in signing here.

Long term planning isn’t their strong suit. Say goodbye to the 2025 1st for a middling level forward. Joy to the world

I'd have taken Zegras for the 3rd liner/2nd/4th Philly gave up for him. Our prospect would likely have been Raty.

[rikster]

Got to hold onto three goalies until a trade is made involving one, so only one spare forward and one defensemen will be up with the team. Lots of competition to be first call up - Sasson, Blais, Bains and dark horses Kravtsov and Klimovich at forward. Same with D with Kudryavtsev, Willander, Mancini and dark horses Hirose, Woo and Beeezebois fighting for one spot. Silovs is the only waiver wire concern.

I'm curious how they handle the Silvos situation because I wonder if long term they see Ty Young ahead of Silvos?...

Not sure what Woo has to do to get some games at the NHL level next year and if with the number of quality defensive prospects in Abbotsford the next season or two if they try to resign him to a longer term deal to tutor and add some protection for the kids...

Take care...

[Chef Boi RD]

Is this our forward group next season:

Hoglander EP40 Karlsson
DeBrusk Chytil Bains
Joshua Raty Garland
OConnor Blueger Sherwood

Sasson bottom 6 extra

But our defence!

The horror, the horror, the horror

Even with that lineup, we have $10m in cap. All is not lost.

Uh, have you seen the field of UFA’s this summer? It’s bleak. It also doesn’t help calm the waters hearing the Canucks brass is pivoting back to trading for forward help, frustrated from the realization that the UFA’s out there have no interest in signing here.

Long term planning isn’t their strong suit. Say goodbye to the 2025 1st for a middling level forward. Joy to the world

I'd have taken Zegras for the 3rd liner/2nd/4th Philly gave up for him. Our prospect would likely have been Raty.

No thanks, for Chef.

[Chef Boi RD]

If they don’t sign or trade for anyone up front, which won’t happen, the line-up should be:

Joshua Raty Garland
Chytil EP40 Karlsson
DeBrusk Muller Hoglander
OConnor Blueger Sherwood
Sasson

Hughes DPetey
Pettersson Hronek
Forbort Myers
Kudryavtsev

Demko
Silovs
Lankinen

This lineup reminds me of the horrid late 80’s Tanti/Skriko shrimp era where we drafted 3 defencemen in the first round back to back - Petit, Daigneault and Butcher. I’d throw Lanz in their but he was a couple years earlier. I’d throw Wilson in their but he was a few years after.

Yay defence.

[UWSaint]

Frank the Sausage Seravalli: “The rumour the Canucks offered the 15th pick+ for Marco Rossi is true; it's "going to take more" - SN 650

When the “+” wasn’t Willander and D-Pete, Guerin said - “No, do better, like Willander or Elias the Defenceman Pettersson better”

The Canucks simply don’t have the arsenal in their stock to make things happen. If they do “go there” it will completely wipe out the remaining chips they have. What a mess.

IMO Rossi is not worth more than loose change and a mid first round pick OR loose change and one of those players. You can't let GM's who want to move a guy (or at least is openly taking offers to see where the market is) become "you really want this guy." That happens when you focus more on the player than the need (OEL, *cough*).

And the need? My view is that it is top 6 more than center. To be sure, center depth--especially top 6--is the Canucks biggest weakness. You have Pettersson and no one to back him up. But the fact is, the Canucks really only have 2 solid top 6 level players: Petersson and DeBrusk; though I am not going to disagree strongly if someone wants to put Garland in the group. There will always be less than 6 top 6 players, unless lots of things go right for the younger guys. So if the market is too seller-favorable for the center position, look to the wings. Its still a need -- and the Canucks aren't going to fill all of their needs when they are carrying dead cap, a couple of iffy deals, and don't have offensive "over" contribution outside of maybe DeBrusk (and Hughes from the blue line).

Again, adding a quality wing is not better than a quality center, but its something that can be done which preserves the right assets for making the right move when the market is less tilted.

Last point, the Canucks need to be the poachers for once. Look at the teams that are close to the cap already and have more work to do. Be prepared to be helpful.... Look to the teams with sizable holes at a position you are deeper in... Get them to focus on your guy instead of the other way around.

[Lancer]

Frank the Sausage Seravalli: “The rumour the Canucks offered the 15th pick+ for Marco Rossi is true; it's "going to take more" - SN 650

When the “+” wasn’t Willander and D-Pete, Guerin said - “No, do better, like Willander or Elias the Defenceman Pettersson better”

The Canucks simply don’t have the arsenal in their stock to make things happen. If they do “go there” it will completely wipe out the remaining chips they have. What a mess.

IMO Rossi is not worth more than loose change and a mid first round pick OR loose change and one of those players. You can't let GM's who want to move a guy (or at least is openly taking offers to see where the market is) become "you really want this guy." That happens when you focus more on the player than the need (OEL, *cough*).

And the need? My view is that it is top 6 more than center. To be sure, center depth--especially top 6--is the Canucks biggest weakness. You have Pettersson and no one to back him up. But the fact is, the Canucks really only have 2 solid top 6 level players: Petersson and DeBrusk; though I am not going to disagree strongly if someone wants to put Garland in the group. There will always be less than 6 top 6 players, unless lots of things go right for the younger guys. So if the market is too seller-favorable for the center position, look to the wings. Its still a need -- and the Canucks aren't going to fill all of their needs when they are carrying dead cap, a couple of iffy deals, and don't have offensive "over" contribution outside of maybe DeBrusk (and Hughes from the blue line).

Again, adding a quality wing is not better than a quality center, but its something that can be done which preserves the right assets for making the right move when the market is less tilted.

Last point, the Canucks need to be the poachers for once. Look at the teams that are close to the cap already and have more work to do. Be prepared to be helpful.... Look to the teams with sizable holes at a position you are deeper in... Get them to focus on your guy instead of the other way around.

Given the rumors that management has circled back on Suter, after news they were hoping that Duchene would go to FA, gives me the sense that management has looked at the sticker prices of their 2C options and weren't impressed either. Going the "Top-6 forward, winger or centre be damned" approach will likely make more sense. It's not like the top 6 is swimming with talented wingers just looking for a centre to feed them.

We'll see what happens between now and this time next week, but we may want to temper our expectations in terms of transaction fireworks in the near-term. Management may take all summer - or well into training camp - to fix the front 6. In that case, I hope it's because they're playing poacher like you say instead of throwing up their hands and saying time ran out.

A team Captain is watching...

[Hockey Widow]

I'm feeling very tired. All the years of people clamouring to have the D fixed. Trading everyone and their uncle to improve the D. Now we have a solid D with good D prospects in the system. But lets start trading them to fix the forwards. It may happen. But what is needed is patience. I still can't get over how badly they fucked this up. One move, Pettersson to Carolina and the whole problem is fixed. They miscalculated and are now in a pickle. But please dont dismantle the D. You will create a hole on D again.


A couple of smart moves, bold moves and we can fix this. By bold I mean a Pettersson or Demko or Garland. Or all three. Jettison the core except for Hughes and start again. Let Demko's agent talk to teams about an extension. Get a fit and go for it. If he commits to an extension he is worth a top six centre plus. I still think Pettersson to Buffalo makes sense. We can get assets back. Garland same thing. Let him talk to teams and find a fit. We have until July 1st to do a sign and trade with Boeser. Or flip him for a 4th.

I have to believe Allvin is working on something. Perhaps blind faith and a lot of hope.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Off course it's easier to say than do, but I like what UWS and HW are saying better than anything I have seen anything the ownership/management group doing in a long time.

[UWSaint]

I'm feeling very tired. All the years of people clamouring to have the D fixed. Trading everyone and their uncle to improve the D. Now we have a solid D with good D prospects in the system. But lets start trading them to fix the forwards. It may happen. But what is needed is patience.....

It is always the case that so long as you aren't getting far more windfall value from players (ELCs, first RFAs, team friendlies/smart signings, surprises) than debt service (retained, buyout, bad contracts), the ship will be unbalanced. Because there will be a group of teams that are doing far better on this equation, and at least in recent years, most teams' internal caps match the league cap.

Leaning into the comparative advantage (defense) is definitely a defensible approach (<--see dat, ). I think this is true with teams and with players. (I'm a frequent critic of the coaches who are always getting players to do better at what they are bad at when it comes at the expense of their unique marginal skill; even without the tradeoff, it is just as beneficial to improve what you do well as improve what you do poorly, presuming what you do poorly isn't NHL roster disqualifying). If the Canucks can be a top 5 defense (and they have a top 5 top 4 IMO, they have the personnel for a top quarter PK, they have a goalie (Demko) who can be great if healthy), they can be a playoff team if they can be out of the bottom quarter in goals scored.

And leaning into the comparative advantage Its probably the best approach for the Canucks, HW, I think we agree. Though unfortunately it means there will be a little less entertainment.

But trading away advantage can make sense if you think you can roll the dice on getting windfall value from an ELC/low paid player. In other words, if you think there's a decent chance DEP or Mancini or Willander could play top 4 roles, then trading from the strength of the NHL roster to acquire forward help could make the most sense. I am not saying those D guys have a high enough chance to do this now. But I am saying you should look for opportunities to create windfalls when you have none, and you should be looking to move players whose marginal value to you is minimal but to another team is more significant. That's where you can extract value in trades because even if the individual players are of equal value, your replacement is going to be closer to what you traded out than your current guy is for the guy you are bringing in.

And this is also why I am not quick to get rid of those D prospects. I think I'd rather deal from the NHL roster and push one of these kids before we know with certainty that they are ready (maybe a windfall) than to trade from the prospects to get another quality complement (like Rossi) to a core that doesn't exist. Getting windfalls is so important, and no more so than when you are carrying dead cap and/or bad contracts.

[Chef Boi RD]

Back when we were all trading everything from Nadir to Zenith to fix our D, Chef was the lone wolf here saying “be careful what you wish for…”

[UWSaint]

Back when we were all trading everything from Nadir to Zenith to fix our D, Chef was the lone wolf here saying “be careful what you wish for…”

I don't think this is true. Horvat was traded to upgrade the defense. Kuzmenko (whose offensive potency was sapped by a combination of factors, some deliberate) was traded to upgrade the middle. Miller was traded to subtract Miller. Even the 1st used for MP3 was used partly to subtract Heinen and Desharnais.

More importantly, I don't think there was ever a plan to get rid of Horvat and Miller. They got backed into a corner; whether they should have foreseen that is very difficult to know from the outside.

But If you knew in 2022-23 that EP40 would turn into a pumpkin and Miller would so quickly become a net liability, though, you have a lot of foresight.

[Chef Boi RD]

Back when we were all trading everything from Nadir to Zenith to fix our D, Chef was the lone wolf here saying “be careful what you wish for…”

I don't think this is true. Horvat was traded to upgrade the defense. Kuzmenko (whose offensive potency was sapped by a combination of factors, some deliberate) was traded to upgrade the middle. Miller was traded to subtract Miller. Even the 1st used for MP3 was used partly to subtract Heinen and Desharnais.

More importantly, I don't think there was ever a plan to get rid of Horvat and Miller. They got backed into a corner; whether they should have foreseen that is very difficult to know from the outside.

But If you knew in 2022-23 that EP40 would turn into a pumpkin and Miller would so quickly become a net liability, though, you have a lot of foresight.

When you’re trading two blue chip top two line centre’s in Horvat and Miller and the best parts coming back are defencemen with two projects for centres, one of them an unproven prospect - Raty drafted in the 2nd round and the other a 3rd line level centre with a history of concussions, well that my friend reeks of disaster. Not sure what they were thinking there. One of them should’ve been used at trying to land a legit centre in return. I stand pat on this.