The Great Jim Benning Debate! (And personal insult thread)

[Mickey107]

Spilled milk is not to be cried over but I'm doin it anyways.
We should have got something for Hamuis at the TD. If only about 5 teams could have looked into a crystal ball.
Never gonna know what really went down and I still don't know who I want to blame,
Gillis, Benning or Dan himself.
At the time, I said to my son we should get a second and a prospect and he laughed at me!
Was I missing something....

[Island Nucklehead]

Enough is enough already. Take your limp dick and go play in a corner for awhile.

[sk8er]

Catching up on the weekend posts and all I've learned is that if guys in rocky bromances start to seek help, Rats has got a career in couples therapy if he wants it.

It's like Us versus Them all over again

Well more like Men (Us) versus Them (Women)...the broken ex brides of one exgmmg....

The Hopers versus Whiners?

The IQs versus Vaginas?

The TCF (True Canuck Fans™) versus WMB (Wannabe Make Believers)?

Wow! I thought in this new age of political correctness you might be a little bit more sensitive to whose feelings you might hurt. Men vs women, ex brides of MG, IQ vs vaginas.

Enough is enough already. Take your limp dick and go play in a corner for awhile.

Holy hell! What a perfect response HW!!!! I've been trying to think of something since I first read that stupidity, and there you go. You rock!!

[Hockey Widow]

Spilled milk is not to be cried over but I'm doin it anyways.
We should have got something for Hamuis at the TD. If only about 5 teams could have looked into a crystal ball.
Never gonna know what really went down and I still don't know who I want to blame,
Gillis, Benning or Dan himself.
At the time, I said to my son we should get a second and a prospect and he laughed at me!
Was I missing something....

You don't blame Hamhuis. He agreed to waive and exercised his right to limit destinations. You don't blame Gillis. He wasn't anywhere this team at the TDD. Unless you mean blame him for giving a NTC, that he probably had to give to get Hamhuis signed for the term and cap he got. That leaves Benning.

Now to be fair Hamhuis wasn't willing to consider waiving earlier. One, the team was still thinking they could make the playoffs and two, he was coming off a devasting injury. Now Chicago chose to go the Ladd route and Dallas chose to go the Russell route. After that there wern't any options other than to give Hamhuis up for a late round desperation pick. I'm glad he didn't set that precedent for himself. I was hard on Benning after the TDD but since then have reasons it out.

The only thing he could have done differently, perhaps, was last summer made the moves to trade both Vrbata and Hamhuis, assuming both would have waived, and made the strategic decision to expedite the rebuild. In hindsight that's an easy call but when you are trying to make the playoffs it didn't make sense I guess.

[Island Nucklehead]

The only thing he could have done differently, perhaps, was last summer made the moves to trade both Vrbata and Hamhuis, assuming both would have waived, and made the strategic decision to expedite the rebuild. In hindsight that's an easy call but when you are trying to make the playoffs it didn't make sense I guess.

Yeah, when you play with fire you're liable to get burned. By taking the wait-and-see approach, Benning rolled the dice. He lost on both guys (Hamhuis due to injury, Vrbata because he sucked). Again, this comes down to Benning's poor reading of the team he had. If it weren't for some other divisional teams having pathetic starts, we would've been out of it far sooner. Had Benning read the team properly, as many pundits and posters on here did, he would have been more proactive in generating and exploiting a market for Vrbata and Hamhuis.

I'm not concerned with Benning's drafting, we're going to have good position each round (we should have more picks). We'll see what happens July 1st, but Benning's free agency results have been very mixed. One thing I think (hope) we've seen the end of is the waiver-eligible reclamation projects. Surely to Christ between Baertschi, Granlund, Vey, Etem, Pedan, Larsen etc., there's enough there to plug a few depth holes.

[Cornuck]

Had Benning read the team properly, as many pundits and posters on here did, he would have been more proactive in generating and exploiting a market for Vrbata and Hamhuis.

Who's to say the Benning that didn't 'read the team properly'? I'm going to assume that he still had some responsibility to ownership to make (or appear to try to make) the playoffs. Trading too early would have signaled tank at point when the owners are still trying apply lipstick to the pig.

Benning doesn't seem like a guy that going to wait around to make a deal - unlike Gillis' gun-shy approach. He's shown in the past that when someone needs to be moved, they're gone fairly quickly.

[Strangelove]

Yeah, when you play with fire you're liable to get burned. By taking the wait-and-see approach, Benning rolled the dice. He lost on both guys (Hamhuis due to injury, Vrbata because he sucked).

It is common practice for NHL GMs to hang on to pending UFAs until the deadline.

It was bad luck that Hammer got injured (I don't think he would have waived before the TDL anyway).

Also bad luck that Vrbata entered such a sudden steep decline.

[Hockey Widow]

And I doubt very much that Hamhuis would have waived over the summer. He almost didn't at the TDD. The old adage of just make the playoffs and anything can happen dies hard, and rightly so. For sure we all saw we were no longer a top contender, or even a md range contender. Bennng saw this which is why he started the rebuild on the fly. But you never give up on the playoffs. Just because a few pundits and fans want you to tank doesn't mean you are going to do it.

At least we earned our top six draft pick the old fashioned way

[Strangelove]

At least we earned our top six draft pick the old fashioned way

Yes, we earned our good fortune through bad luck.

[Madcombinepilot]

Yeah, when you play with fire you're liable to get burned. By taking the wait-and-see approach, Benning rolled the dice. He lost on both guys (Hamhuis due to injury, Vrbata because he sucked). Again, this comes down to Benning's poor reading of the team he had. If it weren't for some other divisional teams having pathetic starts, we would've been out of it far sooner. Had Benning read the team properly, as many pundits and posters on here did, he would have been more proactive in generating and exploiting a market for Vrbata and Hamhuis.

I'm not concerned with Benning's drafting, we're going to have good position each round (we should have more picks). We'll see what happens July 1st, but Benning's free agency results have been very mixed. One thing I think (hope) we've seen the end of is the waiver-eligible reclamation projects. Surely to Christ between Baertschi, Granlund, Vey, Etem, Pedan, Larsen etc., there's enough there to plug a few depth holes.

I'm not concerned with Benning's drafting, we're going to have good position each round (we should have more picks). We'll see what happens July 1st, but Benning's free agency results have been very mixed. One thing I think (hope) we've seen the end of is the waiver-eligible reclamation projects. Surely to Christ between Baertschi, Granlund, Vey, Etem, Pedan, Larsen etc., there's enough there to plug a few depth holes.[/quote]

I don't think Benning had a 'poor read on the team'. Everyone knew this team would struggle to make the playoffs, but that they would be in the hunt. Last year, this team always had a top flight player who was injured, usually a couple (or more) who were hurt. For a team that was overwhelmed with injuries, they competed for most of the season. It really wasn't until later in the season when the injuries really piled up (we had a couple games where we didn't have enough veterans to ice a legal preseason team) that the team truly folded. No GM has a crystal ball and can determine who is going to get hurt, but with the cap restrictions he was under and the contracts he had, I don't see how Benning could have positioned the team any different for last season.

As to Benning's free agency results, every GM has a mixed results. When your hiring a new guy to join a team, you have no idea how he is going to get along with everyone. When you develop a guy, you know exactly how he will fit in with the current team.

Don't read more into this than I have said, I am not a Benning ass kisser, he has made a couple questionable moves (I think he overpaid for Sbisa, and he didn't seem to try and move Higgins last off season) but, considering we don't get to see behind the scenes with the team and its chemistry, I think he has done an ok job and is currently suffering from the media and irate fans (who hate to lose) piling on...

[Lancer]

Had Benning read the team properly, as many pundits and posters on here did, he would have been more proactive in generating and exploiting a market for Vrbata and Hamhuis.

Who's to say the Benning that didn't 'read the team properly'? I'm going to assume that he still had some responsibility to ownership to make (or appear to try to make) the playoffs. Trading too early would have signaled tank at point when the owners are still trying apply lipstick to the pig.

This.

There's a lot to be said about optics - not just to the fanbase but to the dressing room as well. Ditching both of them - especially if they weren't credibly replaced in free agency that summer - would have lowered the expectations in the dressing room, and that wouldn't be a good thing. This is part of that competitive culture they want to maintain so the kids don't get complacent and used to losing (Ed-cough cough-monton). How would the remaining vets feel? Many of them likely would have thrown in the towel by opening night feeling that management had done the same last summer. That would have done nobody any good other than the 'draftists'.

Benning only tried trading Vrbata and Hamhuis when it became clear to everybody inside and outside the organization that they couldn't make it to the playoffs. The gig was up and not even the young players would have believed the 'our goal is to make the playoffs' mantra so there was nothing to be gained from maintaining a façade of competitiveness.

Call it bad asset management if you want, but I believe players can sense when management has given up on them and would themselves likely give up in turn. Benning, I believe, knows that this can't happen while trying to develop impressionable youngsters on the big squad so he couldn't quit until it couldn't be denied. I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that the trade discussions with Hamhuis and Vrbata coincided with the swoon after Edler and Sutter both got injured.

Benning may get little or nothing for either player before July 1st if they both go UFA, but that might be the price he's willing to pay. Reset/re-orient the plan; target replacements (I don't think he'll fill all the UFA vacancies with youngsters from within, so somebody like an Eriksson at right term and price wouldn't be a bad fit); and approach training camp with the same stated goal of making the playoffs.

If they make the playoffs, great. Anything can happen and it will be a learning experience for the kids.

If they just miss the playoffs, okay. Nobody really expects them to lock up a playoff spot next year anyway, and it's apparently a weak draft next year anyway so no real lost opportunity on a 'generational' talent.

If they're back where they were this Spring, not great but the team gets a better pick and the team can shed what deadwood they may find - and we know Benning won't hesitate to do so.

The last thing this club needs is an Edmonton/Toronto-style tank plan.

[Blob Mckenzie]

The Alex Edler that steamrolled Doughty in the 2010 playoffs could've been a beast. Injuries have taken their toll.

Why are we comparing drafted players to free agent signings? If Stecher turns into a Tanev-level player it would be fantastic. He could very-well be Evan Oberg.

I was just pointing out to the board fist puppet that Tanev was a better player than Edler. He's far better and his beloved TSN ranking system had Marek Zidlicky ahead of John Carlson so it's a bunk pile of shit just like 99% of the drivel he's been posting.

I like Edler myself and think he's a decent player. That said he has been a fire fire when he doesn't have a Tanev or a Salo to hold his hand in the defensive zone.

What a load of choad that is...you have EXgmmg so far up your bowels you canna see the shit through shinola...Edler is a way better defenceman than Tanev and is matched up against his fellow #1s on the opposing teams all the time. Tanev has played protected minutes in comparison. He is 4 years younger and has not seen the battles Edler has.
Edler is an All Star, an Olympian and a World Champion not to mention other acclaims.

Ask any true hockey pundit and those with even a little bit of hockey IQ and they will tell you Edlers work horsemanship over Tanevs safe but dependable play is the backbone of a #1 D.

Just ask current awesome GMMG who his #1 is D is and is paid like it.....

Chris is a pretty decent #2 though...

Try again Vagina McMonologue....

Lol this drivel is hilarious

[ESQ]

Sooo, 3rd-line center with sub-50% FO and 14 goals/34 points is asking for $4.5 million.

Again, maybe the Sutter contract ain't that bad?

[Lloyd Braun]

Sooo, 3rd-line center with sub-50% FO and 14 goals/34 points is asking for $4.5 million.

Again, maybe the Sutter contract ain't that bad?

It was always a reasonable deal. Not a bargain by any stretch, but much better than trading for a guy, only to lose him as a UFA looking for a competitive team just one year later.

Sure, some people can't see that... but...

[Blob Mckenzie]

Sooo, 3rd-line center with sub-50% FO and 14 goals/34 points is asking for $4.5 million.

Again, maybe the Sutter contract ain't that bad?

Shaw is more of a winger than a centre. He is also still 24 so there is still some upside and he likely won't get that type of contract if Bergevin is smart. Honestly I wouldnt want either player at 4.4 million. I think they would both be overpaid at that rate in a cap world.