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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 6:36 am
by 5thhorseman
Mëds wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:12 pm But, who pays for the abortion?

If the state is going to have any financial responsibility or service obligation in this procedure then it’s not as cut and dry because the State represents the people, not just the person.

The first question is when does life begin? At conception or at the point of awareness? If the State (aka the people, aka the majority in a democracy) says that life begins at conception, then you have the moral dilemma of abortion being nothing more than electively taking a life……now the moral foundations of state law are not unshakable. That’s why this is so complicated.
Isn't it the same issue, really?

I mean, if Christians really believe that abortion is killing, then I would expect them to be blowing up abortion clinics real good.

If every town had a gas chamber that was being used to exterminate Jews on a daily basis, Christians would be doing whatever it takes, legal or illegal, to bring that to a stop.

And what's the difference between a fetus and a Jew? Their lives should have equal value, right?

Whoever pays for abortions is really a minor part of the whole issue. It doesn't make sense for Christians to say yeah we'll live with the killing but we won't pay for it.

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:23 am
by Meds
5thhorseman wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 6:36 am
Mëds wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:12 pm But, who pays for the abortion?

If the state is going to have any financial responsibility or service obligation in this procedure then it’s not as cut and dry because the State represents the people, not just the person.

The first question is when does life begin? At conception or at the point of awareness? If the State (aka the people, aka the majority in a democracy) says that life begins at conception, then you have the moral dilemma of abortion being nothing more than electively taking a life……now the moral foundations of state law are not unshakable. That’s why this is so complicated.
Isn't it the same issue, really?

I mean, if Christians really believe that abortion is killing, then I would expect them to be blowing up abortion clinics real good.
If you expect that then you don't know much about Christianity.

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:50 pm
by 5thhorseman
Mëds wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:23 am
5thhorseman wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 6:36 am
Mëds wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:12 pm But, who pays for the abortion?

If the state is going to have any financial responsibility or service obligation in this procedure then it’s not as cut and dry because the State represents the people, not just the person.

The first question is when does life begin? At conception or at the point of awareness? If the State (aka the people, aka the majority in a democracy) says that life begins at conception, then you have the moral dilemma of abortion being nothing more than electively taking a life……now the moral foundations of state law are not unshakable. That’s why this is so complicated.
Isn't it the same issue, really?

I mean, if Christians really believe that abortion is killing, then I would expect them to be blowing up abortion clinics real good.
If you expect that then you don't know much about Christianity.
Okay fine but does it really make sense to tolerate the killing of unborn people as long as your taxes don't pay for it?

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:23 pm
by Meds
5thhorseman wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 12:50 pm
Mëds wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:23 am
5thhorseman wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 6:36 am
Mëds wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:12 pm But, who pays for the abortion?

If the state is going to have any financial responsibility or service obligation in this procedure then it’s not as cut and dry because the State represents the people, not just the person.

The first question is when does life begin? At conception or at the point of awareness? If the State (aka the people, aka the majority in a democracy) says that life begins at conception, then you have the moral dilemma of abortion being nothing more than electively taking a life……now the moral foundations of state law are not unshakable. That’s why this is so complicated.
Isn't it the same issue, really?

I mean, if Christians really believe that abortion is killing, then I would expect them to be blowing up abortion clinics real good.
If you expect that then you don't know much about Christianity.
Okay fine but does it really make sense to tolerate the killing of unborn people as long as your taxes don't pay for it?
I suppose it depends on what you mean by tolerate.

I mean, the reason for Christianity’s opposition to abortion is not limited to just because it’s killing and “thou shall not kill”. The opposition to it is because killing is sin. However, a Christian cannot hold an unbeliever to that standard because the unbeliever does not understand what sin is and to them that do not know it is not sin.

Christians are supposed to effect change through their own choices and actions towards one another as well as towards others. It’s a “gospel of peace” after all…..although that peace is twofold.

Christians tolerate a lot of things that they shouldn’t. They condone things that they should not. They participate in things they should not. And Jesus was the one who said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Christians aren’t supposed to take up arms against their neighbours.

That being said, Christians in North America also live in a world where they are citizens who have the right to vote. They have the rights of any other citizen. Just like any other citizen they have the right to attempt to effect change at the ballot box or by writing their local representatives.

Trump even called them out during his first campaign (iirc) saying that Evangelicals have enormous power to effect change in that way. It’s the same in Canada.

But they so often do not get involved and instead are just along for the ride.

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:01 pm
by Chef Boi RD
Still waiting for the believers to provide the cold hard facts the existence of their god. For some weird reason they can’t, instead you get “prove that he doesn’t exist”. Always turning it around, avoiding, dodging, skirting…., can you do that for us, Mëds?

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:44 pm
by Meds
Chef Boi RD wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:01 pm Still waiting for the believers to provide the cold hard facts the existence of their god. For some weird reason they can’t, instead you get “prove that he doesn’t exist”. Always turning it around, avoiding, dodging, skirting…., can you do that for us, Mëds?
Can you prove he doesn't?

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:48 pm
by Chef Boi RD
Mëds wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:44 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:01 pm Still waiting for the believers to provide the cold hard facts the existence of their god. For some weird reason they can’t, instead you get “prove that he doesn’t exist”. Always turning it around, avoiding, dodging, skirting…., can you do that for us, Mëds?
Can you prove he doesn't?
Like clockwork

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:25 pm
by Meds
Chef Boi RD wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:48 pm
Mëds wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:44 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:01 pm Still waiting for the believers to provide the cold hard facts the existence of their god. For some weird reason they can’t, instead you get “prove that he doesn’t exist”. Always turning it around, avoiding, dodging, skirting…., can you do that for us, Mëds?
Can you prove he doesn't?
Like clockwork
Then do so.

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:55 am
by Cornuck
No that this 'debate' will ever go anywhere, but there is a separate thread to use.... :oops:

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:41 pm
by 5thhorseman
Thanks taking the time to respond Mëds.

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:09 pm
by Cousin Strawberry
Cornuck wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:55 am No that this 'debate' will ever go anywhere, but there is a separate thread to use.... :oops:
Theyre all dead.

Jesus was an extra-testicle who was beamed aboard his starship hence the whole "risen" thang

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:09 pm
by Strangelove

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:42 pm
by Topper
How is that Obama nuclear deal with Iran now looking?

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 1:32 am
by Megaterio Llamas

Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:24 am
by Topper
Biden's "Don't" or Obama's "Line in the sand."

Which is the more hollow threat?