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Mëds wrote: ↑Sun Dec 14, 2025 8:10 pmIn general when a trade includes a 20 year old dman that guy is someone who they have given up on.

You’re not suggesting that the Minnesota Wild, owners of one of the best prospect pools out there, put one of the crown jewels of said pool on their roster, watched him play ~30 games as a teen and then “gave up” on him - are you?

Because that makes essentially no sense at all. This is clearly an exceptional situation: a team dangling a recent Norris winner, in his prime and signed next year, in the trade market.

This move clearly fits into the framework of a rebuild, a prospect of Buium’s caliber is not the sort where you can argue they’ve lost value since the pick was spent on them (like you could with, say, Öhgren). And it’s pretty clear that Minnesota won’t be in a draft position to select a better one for some time, so yeah again this fits with a rebuild and in fact is a better way to get high end young players than if they’d asked for Minny’s 27 or even 28 first round pick.

Another precedent this team has set under this ownership is trying to fast track a rebuild (whether it makes sense or not); bringing in a 24, 22, 20 and 17 year old (the pick) fits with that as well.

UWSaint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:37 pm So it wasn't that the Canucks have been a train wreck since Hughes was drafted (and a few years before), it was just that he's an American mercenary who we speculate will do mercenary things (like play with siblings? like want to win?). A good Canadian kid would marry that bride who gave him no evidence she will be a good wife, right? Those good Canadian kids like Mitch Marner would never leave their dream-come-true-drafted-by-my-hometown-club, right? They love hockey that's less than functional and where the media and fans are crazy. Because they love Canada.

Excellent post UW.

Agree with its entirety (I just Lever’d it for Lever)

One thing for sure, the trade has got people talking, even dbr has returned.

Lancer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:48 pm Miller was - and still is IMO - a temperamental child who bought into what Baldy and Tocchy were preaching at him; the hockey WAS good enough to put with being in a Canadian market. Give Miller this, his heart is usually in what he thinks is the right place even if his head is up his ass more often than not. Then the hockey wasn't good enough, and he was too eager to bolt.

I’d say you’re dead wrong on that.

Miller didn’t leave because the hockey was bad. He left because of conflict with a player who wasn’t pulling his weight and the team sided with that player.

Maybe he knew that the hockey was going to get really bad and decided to get out of Dodge before it got really ugly? Who knows? But he wanted to be here and he wanted to win here.

Player A scores at better than 1PPG for his entire tenure in Vancouver, wins the fans, leads the team (albeit a tad dysfunctionally at times). He then sticks around for $500K less than Player B (who was doing less while sporting the C), so the team goes with Player A and the results are a return to playoff hockey (2 rounds of it in fact). Then when Player C is offered 25% more than Player A to extend, despite only a single season worth of high production (and multiple seasons of questionable attitude and poor preparation), he player balks at it and holds out for substantially more.

But yeah.

Player A fucked the team.

UWSaint wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:37 pm
So it wasn't that the Canucks have been a train wreck since Hughes was drafted (and a few years before), it was just that he's an American mercenary who we speculate will do mercenary things (like play with siblings? like want to win?). A good Canadian kid would marry that bride who gave him no evidence she will be a good wife, right? Those good Canadian kids like Mitch Marner would never leave their dream-come-true-drafted-by-my-hometown-club, right? They love hockey that's less than functional and where the media and fans are crazy. Because they love Canada.

You know who besides Americans aren't generally clamoring to get out of lovely places despite mediocre hockey? Canadians. You know, I've heard there are some good Canadians on the Florida Panthers, even on hometown discounts. They must hate Canada. Or hate losing. Or something.

And what is the "Canada" NHL team you are referring to? All 7 clubs and provinces present the same thing to them, right? Same product, right? Same housing prices? Same quality schools? Same taxes? Same cost of living? And what rube -- a mercenary American!!!! -- might consider cost of living when evaluating where to sign? What rube -- a mercenary American!!! -- might be consider management of the company signing them?

I'll concede that one trait that IMO played a big role in Hughes' decision-making is the fact that he wasn't prepared to be part of the solution here vice going to a team further along the curve. If you want to argue that he had done some of that already when he first joined the roster, there may be a bit of validity to that. It isn't just the desire to play in America vice Canada.

There will be those Canadians who would rather not play in the harsh media glare that comes with any Canadian market; Hi Mitch!! There are Quebecers who would rather never play for Montreal than bear the responsibility of being the next Great Franco Hope. Lot of American clubs means lots of jobs for Canadian players - stars and plumbers alike, and the chance to sock some nice retirement money even if they do come back to Canada. How many Massachusetts natives have ever indicated they would rather play in Canada instead of Boston - privately or publicly?

This isn't really on them; there are numerous sources indicating that Canadian clubs are not desirable destinations for American players, and taxes top the reasons. If money is king (and it is for many), I don't blame them for trying to generate as much generational income as possible. If they grew up 'Republican/MAGA' (and we know they're in the league), why would they want to live in the socialist dystopia they've been told Canada is?

On the flip side, Rick Nash, Horton and Bouwmeester stuck around in Columbus and Florida respectively despite organizational mismanagement. Again, taxes and not being in the media glare didn't hurt either.

I'm not saying they're bad people for not wanting to play in Canada. If someone has been told their whole life that their country is the best place to live by a country mile compared to anywhere else on earth, why wouldn't they want to do so? My point is it is foolhardy to waste top draft capital on an American unless you are utterly confident that you can deliver them an unparallelled organizational experience, consistent winning before they reach their bridge deal, and compensate them enough throughout to mitigate the Canadian tax effect.

dbr wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:25 pm

Mëds wrote: ↑Sun Dec 14, 2025 8:10 pmIn general when a trade includes a 20 year old dman that guy is someone who they have given up on.

You’re not suggesting that the Minnesota Wild, owners of one of the best prospect pools out there, put one of the crown jewels of said pool on their roster, watched him play ~30 games as a teen and then “gave up” on him - are you?

No. I wasn’t suggesting that at all. The opposite in fact. I said in general when…..I meant that this trade was an exception to that generality. Which is why I’m more optimistic about it 24 hours later and given more info.

But I’ll continue to post vaguely if it keeps you posting even just for clarification sake.

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:19 pm How dare that American ingrate leave the Geezer's lovely outhouse fire?

The best thing for all parties involved was to move Quinn for a bounty of premium futures and that's exactly how it went down

I'm over it. Whether he was part of the problem, didn't want to be part of the solution or none of the above...at the end of the day the Canucks just boosted their youth and talent levels and are a better team than before the trade.

Rossi may be small but he's a fire hydrant. Buium isn't small he just isn't big. Ohgren is strong on the walls...the late 1st will be shipped I'm sure so what get back for that remains to be seen.

Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:48 pm

Lancer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:48 pm Miller was - and still is IMO - a temperamental child who bought into what Baldy and Tocchy were preaching at him; the hockey WAS good enough to put with being in a Canadian market. Give Miller this, his heart is usually in what he thinks is the right place even if his head is up his ass more often than not. Then the hockey wasn't good enough, and he was too eager to bolt.

I’d say you’re dead wrong on that.

Miller didn’t leave because the hockey was bad. He left because of conflict with a player who wasn’t pulling his weight and the team sided with that player.

Maybe he knew that the hockey was going to get really bad and decided to get out of Dodge before it got really ugly? Who knows? But he wanted to be here and he wanted to win here.

Player A scores at better than 1PPG for his entire tenure in Vancouver, wins the fans, leads the team (albeit a tad dysfunctionally at times). He then sticks around for $500K less than Player B (who was doing less while sporting the C), so the team goes with Player A and the results are a return to playoff hockey (2 rounds of it in fact). Then when Player C is offered 25% more than Player A to extend, despite only a single season worth of high production (and multiple seasons of questionable attitude and poor preparation), he player balks at it and holds out for substantially more.

But yeah.

Player A fucked the team.

Miller signed when he thought the hockey was good and going to be even better. Then the Petey fiasco happens, the team sags, and no matter where the team's performance factored into him waiving his NMC, it undoubtedly did.

Maybe this whole thing is Miller's and Hughes' collective reaction to management extending Petey. Maybe they both decided at some point that if Petey was staying - which he effectively is with his contract - then they wouldn't. You may be right that management should have sold Petey for pucks rather than have him continue on and lose Miller and Hughes in the process.

Cousin Strawberry wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:57 pm

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:19 pm How dare that American ingrate leave the Geezer's lovely outhouse fire?

The best thing for all parties involved was to move Quinn for a bounty of premium futures and that's exactly how it went down

I'm over it. Whether he was part of the problem, didn't want to be part of the solution or none of the above...at the end of the day the Canucks just boosted their youth and talent levels and are a better team than before the trade.

Rossi may be small but he's a fire hydrant. Buium isn't small he just isn't big. Ohgren is strong on the walls...the late 1st will be shipped I'm sure so what get back for that remains to be seen.

Buium has leapfrogged most of the players drafted above him in 2024. It definitely stings to give a player like that. Rossi is a decent #2 center as well. It's definitely a decent package.

I'm not buying this whole "Americans don't want to play in Canada" thing.

I think, unless the guy is a total mercenary - and there are a few out there, the majority of players will want to play where they have a decent chance to succeed and enjoy their time. A player might be fine on a losing team (anywhere) and feel a part of the franchise and stay. A player may want to build up a team with his teammates and turn things around.

A certain number of players will also want to go to a team where their skillset is in demand (no matter where it is located). This could be to get out of one team where they feel they are being mis-managed, or want to showcase their skills in a contract year.

Players may also want to play in a particular city based on their home life - mostly later in their career.

But if a guy doesn't want to play for your team because "the taxes are too high", the area "is too PC" - or some non-hockey, non-family reason - then he's a mercenary.

But as it was mentioned elsewhere - "winning solves a lot of problems" - right now, I'm sure there's a lot of Canuck players who feel they've hit rock bottom in the franchise (they have) - but they can either bail, sit around and mope, ask for a trade - or just do what they can, and take some pride in turning it around.

Lancer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 3:00 pm

Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:48 pm

Lancer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:48 pm Miller was - and still is IMO - a temperamental child who bought into what Baldy and Tocchy were preaching at him; the hockey WAS good enough to put with being in a Canadian market. Give Miller this, his heart is usually in what he thinks is the right place even if his head is up his ass more often than not. Then the hockey wasn't good enough, and he was too eager to bolt.

I’d say you’re dead wrong on that.

Miller didn’t leave because the hockey was bad. He left because of conflict with a player who wasn’t pulling his weight and the team sided with that player.

Maybe he knew that the hockey was going to get really bad and decided to get out of Dodge before it got really ugly? Who knows? But he wanted to be here and he wanted to win here.

Player A scores at better than 1PPG for his entire tenure in Vancouver, wins the fans, leads the team (albeit a tad dysfunctionally at times). He then sticks around for $500K less than Player B (who was doing less while sporting the C), so the team goes with Player A and the results are a return to playoff hockey (2 rounds of it in fact). Then when Player C is offered 25% more than Player A to extend, despite only a single season worth of high production (and multiple seasons of questionable attitude and poor preparation), he player balks at it and holds out for substantially more.

But yeah.

Player A fucked the team.

Miller signed when he thought the hockey was good and going to be even better. Then the Petey fiasco happens, the team sags, and no matter where the team's performance factored into him waiving his NMC, it undoubtedly did.

Maybe this whole thing is Miller's and Hughes' collective reaction to management extending Petey. Maybe they both decided at some point that if Petey was staying - which he effectively is with his contract - then they wouldn't. You may be right that management should have sold Petey for pucks rather than have him continue on and lose Miller and Hughes in the process.

I think you can add Rick Tocchet to Miller/Hughes.

Cornuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 3:02 pm ...take some pride in turning it around.

Too bad our former Captain decided he couldn't - or couldn't be bothered.

Lancer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:51 pm I'll concede that one trait that IMO played a big role in Hughes' decision-making is the fact that he wasn't prepared to be part of the solution here vice going to a team further along the curve. If you want to argue that he had done some of that already when he first joined the roster, there may be a bit of validity to that. It isn't just the desire to play in America vice Canada.

Hughes was in his 7th full season. He has been a tactical leader every one of those. At 26 years of age, and this season already lost, he’s looking at being 27 for his 8th campaign and with a team that is at least 5 years away from actually being a reliable threat to make the playoffs. They are perhaps closer with the return he brought. He also sees that the other all-star salaried player is unlikely to ever play to an all-star level again.

With that in mind, no way, no how, should anyone (be they fan, teammate, coach/manager, or owner), expect that Hughes would be sticking around after next season.

Hughes let the know well in advance, and he did so while holding zero trade protection.

So did he want to be part of the solution? He knew that this was the only way he could be part of the solution in Vancouver. We should be thanking him.

Lancer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 3:00 pm

Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 2:48 pm

Lancer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 15, 2025 1:48 pm Miller was - and still is IMO - a temperamental child who bought into what Baldy and Tocchy were preaching at him; the hockey WAS good enough to put with being in a Canadian market. Give Miller this, his heart is usually in what he thinks is the right place even if his head is up his ass more often than not. Then the hockey wasn't good enough, and he was too eager to bolt.

I’d say you’re dead wrong on that.

Miller didn’t leave because the hockey was bad. He left because of conflict with a player who wasn’t pulling his weight and the team sided with that player.

Maybe he knew that the hockey was going to get really bad and decided to get out of Dodge before it got really ugly? Who knows? But he wanted to be here and he wanted to win here.

Player A scores at better than 1PPG for his entire tenure in Vancouver, wins the fans, leads the team (albeit a tad dysfunctionally at times). He then sticks around for $500K less than Player B (who was doing less while sporting the C), so the team goes with Player A and the results are a return to playoff hockey (2 rounds of it in fact). Then when Player C is offered 25% more than Player A to extend, despite only a single season worth of high production (and multiple seasons of questionable attitude and poor preparation), he player balks at it and holds out for substantially more.

But yeah.

Player A fucked the team.

Miller signed when he thought the hockey was good and going to be even better. Then the Petey fiasco happens, the team sags, and no matter where the team's performance factored into him waiving his NMC, it undoubtedly did.

Maybe this whole thing is Miller's and Hughes' collective reaction to management extending Petey. Maybe they both decided at some point that if Petey was staying - which he effectively is with his contract - then they wouldn't. You may be right that management should have sold Petey for pucks rather than have him continue on and lose Miller and Hughes in the process.

I wasn’t actually pinning this on Scooter.

I was saying that to suggest Miller fucked the team is asinine when taking into consideration all the KNOWN facts.

There are certainly things we don’t know and cannot take into consideration.

Management had to choose between Scooter and the rest of the team. They chose Scooter, and the rest is history.