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Except Tanev wants to stay in Vancouver and is willing to sign one year deals to make it happen. He also isn't expecting a cap bump on a one year deal. From the horses mouth. By way of a friend's friend of course.

Hockey Widow wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:16 pm Except Tanev wants to stay in Vancouver and is willing to sign one year deals to make it happen. He also isn't expecting a cap bump on a one year deal. From the horses mouth. By way of a friend's friend of course.

If that's the case, keep him! You won't replace Tanev's contributions on (when healthy) and off the ice for $4.5M. We also get a top-4 RS guy who WON'T require protection at the expansion draft.

That's a win/win.

rats19 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:45 pmKeep Virtanen

Thank you for injecting two words of sanity there Ratman.....can always count on you.

Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:23 pm

rats19 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:45 pmKeep Virtanen

Thank you for injecting two words of sanity there Ratman.....can always count on you.

It’s the little things Mëds...

Hockey Widow wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:16 pm Except Tanev wants to stay in Vancouver and is willing to sign one year deals to make it happen. He also isn't expecting a cap bump on a one year deal. From the horses mouth. By way of a friend's friend of course.

Seriously? That would be fantastic. He honestly looks like he's having the time of his life playing with Hughes.

Carl Yagro wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:26 pm You're going to have to pay EP over $10M/year and Hughes at least $9M/year soon... when the cap will likely still be stagnant.

What Barrie would want could be spread out over 2 or 3 less offensive but much more solid Dmen.

Hard no.

Pettersson will have to have an INCREDIBLE playoffs and substantially improve his performance next season to warrant over $10M.

Matthews is making $11M (which everyone says is crazy) and he produced at a 55 goal/93 point pace this year, and 44 goal/88 point pace last year.

Petey has produced at a 32 goal/79 point pace this year and 32 goal/76 point pace last year.

Matthews is also 6'3" 215 and does not get knocked around like EP.

A statistical summary of centers over the last 2 seasons lands EP 21st overall in terms of points per game. His comparables are.....

Barkov - 5.9M
Scheifele - 6.1M
Aho - 8.4M
Kuznetsov - 7.8M
Nugent Hopkins - 6M
Monahan - 6.3M
Lindholm - 4.8M
Larkin - 6.1M

I omitted veterans like Giroux, Backstrom, O'Reilly, and Toews, who all fell in that category but have some pretty significant career achievements under their belts either now or at the time of signing their current deals.

I think the closest two comparable players on the list are Aho and Kuznetsov. Neither of them are heavy players, and they produce similar numbers.

Kuznetsov received his current contract after a a disappointing season in a contract year, but the Caps were rewarded by him bouncing back and being a significant contributor in their Cup run the next season. He's proving to be a reliable center who produces just below a point per game and has shown steady playoff numbers. He signed a bridge deal before his current deal.

Sebastian Aho is the closer comparable because he's younger and of the generation that is holding out for bigger paydays early and thumbing their noses at bridge deals unless it's via an offer sheet. Aho got his big payday because of such an offer sheet that came his way from the Canadiens last summer.

Without the offer sheet, and barring a big step forward next season, I think Pettersson lands close to this value.

I think EP is a crazy talent, but I wouldn't be offering him more than $8.5M right now. If he does some serious damage this playoffs and/or puts up 100 points next year that will change.

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:50 pm

Carl Yagro wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:26 pm You're going to have to pay EP over $10M/year and Hughes at least $9M/year soon... when the cap will likely still be stagnant.

What Barrie would want could be spread out over 2 or 3 less offensive but much more solid Dmen.

Hard no.

Yes, and that is probably getting off easy imvho.

I've been think $11 apiece for the two of them when it comes right down to it.

Unless they blow us away next year with 100 and 70 point seasons, plus a deep playoff run, I think we've all lost our heads if that's the price tag on those guys.

See my above post on Petey.

As for Huggie Bear, you are talking about making him one of the highest paid defensemen in the league. Let's just wait and see what Pietrangelo gets this summer and go from there. I think lessons have been learned when it comes to Karlsson and Subban, you can't scuttle your own boat on offensive dmen.

$8.5M for Petey
$8.5M for Hughes

Hopefully teams everywhere are looking at Leafland and learning some valuable lessons.

Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:02 pm

Doyle Hargraves wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:46 pm

rats19 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:45 pmKeep Virtanen

Yes. And the cost to just “move on” from Lulu and Birdbones will be pretty substantial

I think you can get a mid round pick for Sutter at the TDD next year, so not a big deal.
If he stays healthy.

Has anyone watched Sutter the past 5 games? If he continues with that play, and stays healthy (an if and a BIG IF I realize) then why the hell would we trade him at the deadline next year if the goal is to play meaningful playoff games?

Carl Yagro wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:28 pm Oilers have the best player in the league, they have to pay him accordingly... as the highest paid player or very near the top at least. They overpaid Draisaitl IMO.

Dubas is a dumbass and miscalculated badly when the Tavares opportunity presented itself. He already knew he had to pay Matthews as one of the top players in the game. Then be compounded his problems by doubling down on "keeping the band together", then he poured more gas on the fire by bending over to Marner AND Willy.

4 forwards who can only play one end of the ice taking half of the cap.

Well he had to bend over for Marner. The Leaves screwed him once with the ELC and bonuses by giving all the bonuses to Matthews right after telling Marner that they never give the full bonus package to rookies. Then they extended Matthews but didn't extend Marner. Dumbass opted to roll the dice on Marner being the lesser impact and having some negotiating power the following year. Marner stuck his stick up Dubas' arse and right out his mouth by coming out and being the Laugh's leading point scorer that season. Poof. Leverage gone and reappearing in Marner's court.

Nylander should have been traded when he held out after a single 60 point outing. He still can, and should, be traded.

I'm optimistic that the culture that has been created here is one where we see these kids take some bridge deals or discounts to keep things competitive.

Frankly the only massive impact player we have right now is Hughes. Petey is great and all, but last year he arrived and did not make the same difference to this team that Hughes made. Hughes is the more impactful talent currently. And I think that many of us are wearing our Canuck coloured glasses again with some of our players. Currently we don't have anyone who has earned an 8-digit payday.

Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:47 pm

Doyle Hargraves wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:40 pm I don’t like the term for Matthews or Marner but the annual cap hit is inline- albeit at the top of the spectrum because they voiced the Leaves for every dollar and only took five year deals.

Cap-hit and term go hand in hand.

Matthews $11.6M X 5 years is equivalent to $14M X 8.

Again, McDavid is the gold standard.

These contracts have fucked the Leaves over in the short-term and the long-term.

The only way to patch things up a bit is to trade Marner in my opinion.

But to do that Dubas would have to break his STUPID promise.

Honestly, I'd fire Shanny and Dumbass and let the new GM bring in his own coach.

Hopefully the Leaves do none of that.

You trade Matthews.

The haul on him would be incredible. Sure he's the better player, but you could recoup a 1st rounder, a top pairing dman, and a 2nd line forward, in exchange for him. Marner would get you a pick and a player, but frankly it's not a 1st rounder AND a top pairing dman.

The other consideration is that Marner will re-sign in Leafland, he loves it there, it's his hometown team (I bet he has the same pj's as Tavares in his closet)

Matthews will almost certainly bolt for the USofA when free agency hits. I mean think about it. He insisted upon a deal that took every possible dollar and still ended with him walking out the door into UFA status. He also grabbed a NMC on the final year of his deal. He is fully in a position to SCREW the Laugh's all the way to the bank and then piss on their exhausted corpse when he's finished.

A smart GM keeps Marner right now.

Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:31 pm

Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:47 pm

Doyle Hargraves wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:40 pm I don’t like the term for Matthews or Marner but the annual cap hit is inline- albeit at the top of the spectrum because they voiced the Leaves for every dollar and only took five year deals.

Cap-hit and term go hand in hand.

Matthews $11.6M X 5 years is equivalent to $14M X 8.

Again, McDavid is the gold standard.

These contracts have fucked the Leaves over in the short-term and the long-term.

The only way to patch things up a bit is to trade Marner in my opinion.

But to do that Dubas would have to break his STUPID promise.

Honestly, I'd fire Shanny and Dumbass and let the new GM bring in his own coach.

Hopefully the Leaves do none of that.

You trade Matthews.

The haul on him would be incredible. Sure he's the better player, but you could recoup a 1st rounder, a top pairing dman, and a 2nd line forward, in exchange for him. Marner would get you a pick and a player, but frankly it's not a 1st rounder AND a top pairing dman.

The other consideration is that Marner will re-sign in Leafland, he loves it there, it's his hometown team (I bet he has the same pj's as Tavares in his closet)

Matthews will almost certainly bolt for the USofA when free agency hits. I mean think about it. He insisted upon a deal that took every possible dollar and still ended with him walking out the door into UFA status. He also grabbed a NMC on the final year of his deal. He is fully in a position to SCREW the Laugh's all the way to the bank and then piss on their exhausted corpse when he's finished.

A smart GM keeps Marner right now.

It's a balls of steel maneuver that I agree may indeed be the best option to actually help that team where they need it, on defence. Being proactive in this scenario may also be the smartest move for some of the reasons you listed. It's kind of like the Lindros to PHI heist by Quebec - only Auston isn't holding a gun to their head, he's just gonna tap that ass for 5 years and stealthily bolt first thing in the morning of his UFA without even a dear john (tavares) letter. Only thing is they'd now need a top notch 2LC to play behind Tavares in the middle. Boy the Kadri trade is looking worse and worse lol.
Same could be said of Edmonton but they are better positioned at C to pull off a shocker - would you trade McDavid and run with Leon and Nuge down the middle? Connor's at 12.5 per but in a stagnant COVID cap environment, there's a chance that his percentage of total cap may not drop, or at very least it may take a number of years for EDM to gain additional value on that signing (in other words, see his 15% of total cap hit drop to something lower as the league cap number increases). Think of the riches he would bring in return.

Rocky Dennis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:09 pm

Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:31 pm

Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:47 pm

Doyle Hargraves wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:40 pm I don’t like the term for Matthews or Marner but the annual cap hit is inline- albeit at the top of the spectrum because they voiced the Leaves for every dollar and only took five year deals.

Cap-hit and term go hand in hand.

Matthews $11.6M X 5 years is equivalent to $14M X 8.

Again, McDavid is the gold standard.

These contracts have fucked the Leaves over in the short-term and the long-term.

The only way to patch things up a bit is to trade Marner in my opinion.

But to do that Dubas would have to break his STUPID promise.

Honestly, I'd fire Shanny and Dumbass and let the new GM bring in his own coach.

Hopefully the Leaves do none of that.

You trade Matthews.

The haul on him would be incredible. Sure he's the better player, but you could recoup a 1st rounder, a top pairing dman, and a 2nd line forward, in exchange for him. Marner would get you a pick and a player, but frankly it's not a 1st rounder AND a top pairing dman.

The other consideration is that Marner will re-sign in Leafland, he loves it there, it's his hometown team (I bet he has the same pj's as Tavares in his closet)

Matthews will almost certainly bolt for the USofA when free agency hits. I mean think about it. He insisted upon a deal that took every possible dollar and still ended with him walking out the door into UFA status. He also grabbed a NMC on the final year of his deal. He is fully in a position to SCREW the Laugh's all the way to the bank and then piss on their exhausted corpse when he's finished.

A smart GM keeps Marner right now.

It's a balls of steel maneuver that I agree may indeed be the best option to actually help that team where they need it, on defence. Being proactive in this scenario may also be the smartest move for some of the reasons you listed. It's kind of like the Lindros to PHI heist by Quebec - only Auston isn't holding a gun to their head, he's just gonna tap that ass for 5 years and stealthily bolt first thing in the morning of his UFA without even a dear john (tavares) letter. Only thing is they'd now need a top notch 2LC to play behind Tavares in the middle. Boy the Kadri trade is looking worse and worse lol.
Same could be said of Edmonton but they are better positioned at C to pull off a shocker - would you trade McDavid and run with Leon and Nuge down the middle? Connor's at 12.5 per but in a stagnant COVID cap environment, there's a chance that his percentage of total cap may not drop, or at very least it may take a number of years for EDM to gain additional value on that signing (in other words, see his 15% of total cap hit drop to something lower as the league cap number increases). Think of the riches he would bring in return.

Trading Matthews means you keep Nylander, who O'Keefe has utilized as a centerman before. So it's not all doom and gloom. Tavares and Marner on the first line. Find someone to compliment Nylander.

Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:10 pm

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:50 pm

Carl Yagro wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:26 pm You're going to have to pay EP over $10M/year and Hughes at least $9M/year soon... when the cap will likely still be stagnant.

What Barrie would want could be spread out over 2 or 3 less offensive but much more solid Dmen.

Hard no.

Yes, and that is probably getting off easy imvho.

I've been think $11 apiece for the two of them when it comes right down to it.

Unless they blow us away next year with 100 and 70 point seasons, plus a deep playoff run, I think we've all lost our heads if that's the price tag on those guys.

See my above post on Petey.

As for Huggie Bear, you are talking about making him one of the highest paid defensemen in the league. Let's just wait and see what Pietrangelo gets this summer and go from there. I think lessons have been learned when it comes to Karlsson and Subban, you can't scuttle your own boat on offensive dmen.

$8.5M for Petey
$8.5M for Hughes

Hopefully teams everywhere are looking at Leafland and learning some valuable lessons.

I think if you plan to offer $8.5 to those two you'll have to look to perhaps trade both of them. Maybe avoid high salaries altogether and look to bring in a pair of nice multiplayer packages and win with depth and a superior bench. Turn Vancouver into a destination for middle class players currently feeling the cap squeeze. That's coming at it from an angle no one expects.

I think we need to start a campaign of Louie love and convince Dumbass that he is the perfect compliment for Nylander so they can trade Matthews.

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:08 am

Mëds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:10 pm

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:50 pm

Carl Yagro wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:26 pm You're going to have to pay EP over $10M/year and Hughes at least $9M/year soon... when the cap will likely still be stagnant.

What Barrie would want could be spread out over 2 or 3 less offensive but much more solid Dmen.

Hard no.

Yes, and that is probably getting off easy imvho.

I've been think $11 apiece for the two of them when it comes right down to it.

Unless they blow us away next year with 100 and 70 point seasons, plus a deep playoff run, I think we've all lost our heads if that's the price tag on those guys.

See my above post on Petey.

As for Huggie Bear, you are talking about making him one of the highest paid defensemen in the league. Let's just wait and see what Pietrangelo gets this summer and go from there. I think lessons have been learned when it comes to Karlsson and Subban, you can't scuttle your own boat on offensive dmen.

$8.5M for Petey
$8.5M for Hughes

Hopefully teams everywhere are looking at Leafland and learning some valuable lessons.

I think if you plan to offer $8.5 to those two you'll have to look to perhaps trade both of them. Maybe avoid high salaries altogether and look to bring in a pair of nice multiplayer packages and win with depth and a superior bench. Turn Vancouver into a destination for middle class players currently feeling the cap squeeze. That's coming at it from an angle no one expects.

Can you explain why you think Petey is worth Matthews level coin when his production and style more closely mirrors a guy like Sebastian Aho or Evgeni Kuznetsov?

Hughes is a wild card, he's American, and he's also incredibly talented, so he might dig his heels in and demand huge cash.....However John Carlson is making $8M after winning a cup on the heels of a 68 point season, he then followed that up with a pair of 70 point seasons, this year tracking towards 80+. He's also more effective in his own end.

So again, why are you so convinced that they will be commanding salaries that put them among the league's 10 highest paid players?

And I'll also add that your forecasting this in a time where the salary cap has flattened and there's no guarantee that revenues will increase over the next couple years to drive it up further.