US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond

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Per
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Per »

Strangelove wrote:
Per wrote: Putin is always the bad guy. He's a KGB coronel.

Haven't you watched any movies? How often are KGB the good guys? :eh:
Yeah well this ain't the movies Pear. :D

And the KGB hasn't been around since the Ukraine was part of the USSR...
Sorry, that should of course be colonel.
It's weird. It is usually pronounced with an "r" in the middle.
Confuses the hell out of me. :eh:

Anyway, the KGB is still around, they just changed the name to FSB, but it's still the old "cheka".

During most of Putin's career there it was still called KGB. Not to mention that most people haven't heard of the FSB, but know perfectly well what the KGB is. Maybe that's why they changed the name in the first place?

Putin is well trained in the workings of the seedy cloak and dagger underbelly of military intelligence, and desinformation is a vital part of it. Not to mention that there's like a dozen old KGB colleagues of his now working directly for him in his administration. And just like him, they still have lots of old chums in the old business.

The Soldiers that showed up in Crimea wore Russian style uniforms, but with no insignia that identified their nationality or regiment, and at the time Russia denied any involvement. Afterwards, once Crimea had been annected and proclaimed part of Russia, Putin has admitted and boasted about planning the invasion on national TV.
But the mysteriousness at the onset of the invasion helped confuse other countries and hesitate about what to do, which of course meant Russia won precious time.

Speaking of which...

The desinformation site RT (Russian Times?) is now spreading a story about Ukrainian terrorists invading Crimea...
https://www.rt.com/news/355385-fsb-ukra ... t-attacks/ :-o

I don't know why, in the back of my head I keep hearing these words:
"Polen hat heute nacht zum erstenmal auf unserem eigenen Territorium auch mit bereits regulären Soldaten geschossen. Seit 5.45 Uhr wird jetzt zurückgeschossen! Und von jetzt ab wird Bombe mit Bombe vergolten! Wer mit Gift kämpft, wird mit Giftgas bekämpft.

Wer selbst sich von den Regeln einer humanen Kriegsführung entfernt, kann von uns nichts anderes erwarten, als dass wir den gleichen Schritt tun. Ich werde diesen Kampf, ganz gleich, gegen wen, so lange führen, bis die Sicherheit des Reiches und bis seine Rechte gewährleistet sind…“
:wow:
http://rainer.mader.free.fr/mm/Adolf%20 ... %20(1).mp3

Today we know (or at least we think we know) that no shots were fired from the Polish side before the Germans crossed the border, but it's smart to straight away blame the other guy.
He started it. I'm just defending myself. :roll:
This way you create confusion and sow doubt.

And Putin is smart.

Never trust him further than you can fling him.
‘the smaller Aegean islands’ means any islands in the Aegean Sea except the islands of Crete and Evia.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by ukcanuck »

Ha Per,

Funny that you should have to convince anyone that Putin is a dickhead extrordinaire.

He's a classic Cold War throwback and while I probably would do the same as him in Crimea as its of strategic value to have that naval base, it doesn't justify his actions.

The latest from the BBC an RT seems to have the Ukraine on full high alert over some failed terrorist plot planned by Kiev is more proof.

Why would Poroshenko piss around with Micky mouse terror plots? It's not logical. It is logical however, that Putin is sabre rattling in the same vein as Germany in the lead up to WW 2.

Oh and a terrorist doesn't kill civilians, everyone does that. Terrorists kill civilians while not wearing a uniform or under the flag of a sovereign nation.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per »

griz wrote:Are you a fan of globalization?
Yes! :drink:

But the established term of what I’m for is really free trade. Globalization is more of a consequence of the former, plus it has become a sort of cussword for the unenlightened who still believe in mercantilism/protectionism, so I think I will stick with free trade.

Since I guess you haven’t read Adam Smith, here is a very simplified version of why you should encourage free trade:

Absolute advantage
Imagine two islands. One has plenty of coco nuts but very poor fisheries, the other has plentiful fisheries, but a dry climate that doesn’t produce much coco nuts. On both islands they want a balanced diet and a family needs four fish and four coco nuts per day (We are not going to discuss recipes or food preferences, just accept this).

On island A, you can pick two coco nuts in an hour (yeah, bear with me) but you only catch one fish per hour on average. To support your family you need to spend four hours fishing and two hours looking for coco nuts.

On island B it is the reverse. You catch two fish per hour but you only find one coco nut per hour, on average. You still need to work six hours collecting food.

If these islands open up trade and set the trading rate to 1 fish = 1 coco nut, the people on island A can concentrate on picking coconuts and the people on island B on fishing. The people on island A spend four hours picking coconuts, then trade half of the nuts to island B for fish, and the people on island B do the opposite. They fish for four hours, then trade half the fish for coco nuts from island A.

They all now get the same amount of food, but work two hours less.

This is what is called the principle of absolute advantages.

When two countries have different absolute advantages, it is glaringly obvious that they will be better off if they trade with each other.

Comparative advantage
Now imagine that instead island A apart from their poor fisheries also had that dry climate that made coco nuts sparse. Lets say they only get one fish per hour and/or one fish per hour. They still want to have four of each, and now need to work four eight hours to put food on the table.

Meanwhile things on Island B have remained the same.

Should the islands trade with one another?

Absolutely! On island A, the amount of work you put in for either product is the same, but on island B you have to work twice as hard for nuts as for fish. Thus the local trading rates differ!

Island B has an absolute advantage in fishing.
Island B has a comparative advantage in coco nut collecting.

Assuming we adopt the going rate on island A of 1 fish = 1 coconut. The people there don’t really have an incentive to trade, but the people of island B would jump at the opportunity, since they consider the value of 1 coco nut = 2 fish.
Assume instead we adopt the going rate on island B. In that case they don’t have an incentive to trade, but the people on island A would jump at the opportunity to get 2 fish for one coco nut.
Now, any exchange rate between 1:1 and 1:2 will lead to an incentive to trade for both islands.

Let’s say we establish a price of 1.5 fish for one coconut.*
On island A you can then work for five hours instead of six, catching four fish for yourself and six that you trade for four coconuts.
On island B you focus on coco nuts, and you now work six hours and forty minutes (on average) instead of eight, collecting four coco nuts for yourself and two and two thirds that you trade for four fish (if you trade every third day, you excange 8 coco nuts for 12 fish).

Every one is better off! 8-)

*Now, this exchange rate is not likely to be stable unless the population on island B is fifty percent bigger than that of island A, but supply and demand will adjust it until it finds a level that is acceptable for all over a longer time.

The real world is more complicated, but most countries have an absolute advantage at something, compared to their neighbours, and all countries have comparative advantages.

Since all countries have comparative advantages at something, all countries benefit from free trade.
‘the smaller Aegean islands’ means any islands in the Aegean Sea except the islands of Crete and Evia.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by damonberryman »

Strangelove wrote:
Per wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Per wrote: Enter stage right: the second coming of Stalin, aka Putin.
OMG this is the kind of guy who compares Trump to Hitler! :lol:
Of course not! :hmmm:
*everyone looks at Damonberryman*
Do you get a chubbie when you think of me? You seem to be stuck on it. Some advice. Take the blue pill for a true woodie. :D
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per »

Oh my! So many flaws and problems with this essay(?) that I don’t know where to begin! :shock:
griz wrote:Globalization uses up finite resources more quickly.
Possibly but not necessarily. Free trade leads to a more efficient use of resources, which should in theory reduce the speed with which we use them up. However, a consequence of free trade is a general growth in prosperity, which means more people have more money and so demand goes up, which may lead to resources being used up more quickly.
griz wrote:Globalization increases world carbon dioxide emissions.
Marginally, because of transports, but partly offset by a more efficient use of resources. Let me go back to Swedish tomatoes. We can grow our own tomatoes just fine, but in greenhouses that have to be heated most of the year. If we instead import tomatoes from the Canary Islands (Spain), the carbon dioxide emissions actually become lower, as the cultivation of these tomatoes hardly cause any emissions, and the emissions caused by the transport is negligible in comparison.

What does happen though, is that the reduction of poverty that free trade causes, means more people can afford more stuff. As I pointed out earlier, in 1981 80% of the population of East Asia (which includes China) lived in extreme poverty, ie less than USD 1.90/per day. In 2015 that figure had dropped to 7.2%. When I was in Beijing in 1990 there were hardly any cars at all. Everyone was riding bikes. But in 2009 China surpassed the USA as the country where most cars were sold. In 2015 24.6 million cars were sold in China, as compared to 17.4 million in the USA.

Of course, when all Chinese lived in squalor and owned no cars, their carbon dioxide emission levels were lower. But are you really comfortable arguing that the majority of the world’s population must accept to remain poor and on the border of starvation, while we in the Western world lead a life of luxury they can hardly imagine?
To argue that we should not strive to reduce poverty, and at the same time gripe about stagnating wages at home, is to me a highly immoral and hypocritical stance.

Instead we must work to phase out fossil fuels, and as you may know, many European countries have come a long way. CO2 emissions per capita in 2014 were 17 tonnes for the US, 16 for Canada, 11 for Russia, 9.8 for Germany, 9.7 for Japan, 7.1 for China and the EU average was 6.8 tonnes. Sweden emitted 4.6 tonnes per capita. http://www.globalcarbonatlas.org/?q=en/emissions

Now, let me break it to you: our climate is worse than yours, we have mining, forestry, auto industry and a pretty decent standard of living. There is no freaking reason the US should emit four times as much carbon dioxide than we do, except that the US has stuck its head in the sand and ignored the threat of global warming, in part probably because the supreme court awarded the presidency to Bush instead of Gore (who had the popular vote) in the 2000 election, and thus is stuck with old fashioned fossil fuel dependent means for manufacturing, transports and heating. This is what should be challenged. Not free trade.
griz wrote:Globalization makes it virtually impossible for regulators in one country to foresee the worldwide implications of their actions.
Right… as opposed to which wonderful form of wizardry that would allow them to easily “foresee the worldwide implications of their actions”? Sheesh! :-D
griz wrote:Globalization acts to increase world oil prices.
Nope. According to all economic theory, it lowers them. Of course she wrote her article at a time when oil prices happened to peak, but since then they have fallen drastically. Did globalization end?
Image

What, you think “globalization” would magically increase the price of one commodity (oil) while lowering it of another (labour)?! Please explain!
griz wrote:Globalization transfers consumption of limited oil supply from developed countries to developing countries.

Globalization transfers jobs from developed countries to less developed countries.

Globalization transfers investment spending from developed countries to less developed countries.
These are good things! This is what reduces poverty in the third world, increases life expectancy, lowers child mortality and allows you to live like a king. What do you think those clothes you wear would cost if they had been produced in Europe or North America? And to boot, you put food on the table for a Bangladeshi family and enabled their kids to go to school. Or maybe you only wear Armani? :eh:
griz wrote:With the dollar as the world’s reserve currency, globalization leads to huge US balance of trade deficits and other imbalances.
Which is of huge benefit to the US economy. This is why you you don’t really need to worry about your trade deficits. The Euro was created in part in an attempt to move that effect to Europe and boost our economy. Not quite there yet… :oops:
griz wrote:Globalization tends to move taxation away from corporations, and onto individual citizens.
To some extent. It’s not really an effect of free trade though, but of beggar thy neighbor policies in which many countries try to get ahead of the competition by luring big corporations to invest there. Short sighted, as they at the same time undermine their own taxation base.
But this can be fixed by negotiating international agreements on minimum levels of corporate taxes rather than throwing out the baby with the bath water. The EU has already agreed on such standards within Europe. In a perfect world, Nafta could do the same, Mercosur as well, ASEAN as well, etc, and then all these groups can harmonize their tax laws till this problem is gone.
griz wrote:Globalization sets up a currency “race to the bottom,” with each country trying to get an export advantage by dropping the value of its currency.
Only true if you decide to compete with price rather than quality. An undervalued currency also means you put yourself at risk of other countries buying not only your products but also all your assets, as if you were holding a garage sale…

Eg Germany or Switzerland do not attempt to do that. They just make sure to produce stuff that people will be willing to buy despite the premium cost. That’s the smart alternative. Of course, it means you have to invest a lot in your workforce, so that you can rely on them to deliver top notch products.

Besides, most countries have floating currencies these days, which means that their value is decided by the market rather than the government. Sure, the respective governments can adjust it marginally with interest rates and buying and selling bonds, but few countries are in full control of the value of their currency. I guess the US and China do have the financial muscle to do it though.
griz wrote:Globalization encourages dependence on other countries for essential goods and services.
Globalization ties countries together, so that if one country collapses, the collapse is likely to ripple through the system, pulling many other countries with it.
Another benefit! This helps prevent wars, like in the olden days when France and Germany would constantly attack each other. Today their economies are so intertwined, they have no option but to stay at peace.

And it also works in reverse. When the economy is soaring in a major country, the boom is likely to ripple through the system, pulling many other countries with it! :mrgreen:
‘the smaller Aegean islands’ means any islands in the Aegean Sea except the islands of Crete and Evia.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by damonberryman »

Strangelove wrote:
damonberryman wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
damonberryman wrote: +Nice too have you here Per. You manage to make the points I want to make without the homocidal underlying flavour.
So if I'm reading you correctly, what you're saying is...

Per makes points with a homosexual underlying flavour? :eh:
damonberryman wrote: Just do not expect to change minds with intelligent arguments. I live in the States and am afraid for my kids and grandkids
... because they're gonna have the reincarnation of Hitler for a president? :mrgreen:
damonberryman wrote: BTW. I do not mind the hair piece. A guy has to do what he has to do. Fortunately I have a full head of hair but no Porsche. See a lot of balding men my age driving around in expensive cars and I toodle along in my cheap paid for ride WITH a full head of hair
I don't even want to know how you found out Per wears a hairpiece and drives a Porsche...
Oh Strangie. What to do with you? You just do not know how to learn new info and take it in without regressing to homosexual innuendo. You are getting as predictable as Blob. :D (the smiley face is for the mods)
Hey man if I misread your overtures to Per I apologize...
THIS is passive aggressive. Ya know Doc, you refer to leftists like they are a bad thing. Next time you use your medical remember Tommy Douglas from Sask, a true leftie. Or perhaps you would prefer the system favoured by the right wing? Hope you have the money or the right job. How about Family leave, medical leave, vacation time, wage parity and fairness, among a host of other leftie policies? You have the emotional resonance of someone speaking from either a favoured life or a soul deranged with hate. I prefer the former. I give you the benefit of the doubt.

BTW. Why is mentioning Hitler proof someone is wrong? Now remember little fella what I said about emotional resonance. Give me an answer based on logic rather than the university of white smart asses. Go for it. It should be interesting to see if you can avoid cliches from the Republican Doomsday Book. :)
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by damonberryman »

Are you married Per? If not would you consider a long distance relationship with an East End boy who visited Oakalla and the old B.C. Pen too many times? I have chilled a lot but that may be due to the weed and benzos but let us not get caught up in details. I currently live in NY and am both Canadian and a British citizen so we will have to do this thing before Brexit is implemented.

That was for you Doc. :lol: :lol:
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Mickey107 »

Holy shit! I just realized that this thread was actually the rough first copy of the script for the new movie;

South Park--(The Next Chapter)....gonna make a billion!!
"evolution"
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Per »

griz wrote:
Per wrote:See North Korea, a poster child for the ideal of self sufficiency.
North Korea seems more like where globalization will take us.
Seriously? No.

At the end of hostilities in the Korea war, both Koreas were war torn and lead by dictators.
North Korea went the self sufficieny route.
South Korea opted for free trade.

The current situation of these two countries is the logical consequence of those choices.
Which Korea would you rather live in; self sufficient North Korea or free trade champions South Korea?

Then think twice before advocating self sufficency as a viable option.
It's not. Unless you are a great fan of inferior products, endless recessions and recurring famines. ;)
Last edited by Per on Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
‘the smaller Aegean islands’ means any islands in the Aegean Sea except the islands of Crete and Evia.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Per »

griz wrote: The Coup of Ukraine was just fine to you?
No, not really. I prefer regime change through ballots, not bullets.
But why do you ask?

Do you think that violent street protests in a neighbouring country means it's OK to invade and annect parts of it? :eh:

Maybe in the dark ages, but not today.
International law does not allow it.
‘the smaller Aegean islands’ means any islands in the Aegean Sea except the islands of Crete and Evia.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Mickey107 »

Per wrote:
griz wrote:
Per wrote:See North Korea, a poster child for the ideal of self sufficiency.
North Korea seems more like where globalization will take us.
Seriously? No.
At the end of hostilities in the Korea war, both Koreas were war torn and lead by dictators.
North Korea went the self sufficieny route.
South Korea opted for free trade.

The current situation of these two countries is the logical consequence of those choices.
Which Korea would you rather live in; self sufficient North Korea or free trade champions South Korea?

Then think twice before advocating self sufficency as a viable option.
It's not. Unless you are a great fan of inferior products, endless recessions and recurring famines. ;)
Sorry, I think comparing N. Korea to North America in regards to self sufficiency is ludicrous.
You post with great passion and conviction but that's way out there... :)
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Per »

micky107 wrote: Sorry, I think comparing N. Korea to North America in regards to self sufficiency is ludicrous.
You post with great passion and conviction but that's way out there... :)
Sure, due to its size and variation, North America would never get quite as bad as North Korea.
A bad harvest in Iowa might be offset by bumper crops in Nebraska, et cetera.

But China is pretty big too, and Mao managed to wreck it up pretty bad.
Same with the Soviet Union and Stalin.

The rot caused by attempts of self sufficiency can be pretty bad. :(

Anyway, I was mainly protesting Griz's suggestion that North Korea would be the result of globalization.
It's quite the opposite. It's because of their closed borders and attempts to be self sufficient that it is such a mess.
‘the smaller Aegean islands’ means any islands in the Aegean Sea except the islands of Crete and Evia.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Topper »

Per wrote:
griz wrote: The Coup of Ukraine was just fine to you?
No, not really. I prefer regime change through ballots, not bullets.
But why do you ask?

Do you think that violent street protests in a neighbouring country means it's OK to invade and annect parts of it? :eh:

Maybe in the dark ages, but not today.
International law does not allow it.
Kabul your cabal
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Per »

Topper wrote:
Per wrote:
griz wrote: The Coup of Ukraine was just fine to you?
No, not really. I prefer regime change through ballots, not bullets.
But why do you ask?

Do you think that violent street protests in a neighbouring country means it's OK to invade and annect parts of it? :eh:

Maybe in the dark ages, but not today.
International law does not allow it.
Kabul your cabal
Guess they are still in the dark ages... :|
‘the smaller Aegean islands’ means any islands in the Aegean Sea except the islands of Crete and Evia.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Strangelove »

damonberryman wrote:
Strangelove wrote: Hey man if I misread your overtures to Per I apologize...
THIS is passive aggressive. Ya know Doc, you refer to leftists like they are a bad thing...
Careful Dingleberries, it's not politically correct to infer homosexuality is synonymous with leftism! :crazy:
damonberryman wrote: BTW. Why is mentioning Hitler proof someone is wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

Speaking of that sort of thing... aren't you the one who claimed everyone who is anti-Hillary is anti-woman?

Reductio ad Hillarum? (Reductio ad Misogyny would be more appropriate but less funny)

OMG wot a schmuck!!! :lol:

Lol, such a gong-show monkey...
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