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Mëds wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:58 pm
So are you saying you're in the camp to trade Hronek for Necas or to keep Hronek?

I don't think Petey is a guy that will be getting Necas the puck (I'm assuming that's who you mean).....Pettersson doesn't have the first step speed or strength on the puck to create space.

I’ll disagree a bit with your Petey assessment, earlier in the season he showed he’s very capable. Post January Petey not so much!

Really though Necas’ speed will help Petey create space. The D won’t be able to focus as much on EP11.6 if there’s another legit threat on the ice with him.

Anyways, like lever said, no surprise at the distain for EP from the resident EMT.

If Hronek is asking something around $8m per then yes I am on the side of move him for Necas. I don’t think he showed enough fortitude in the post season to warrant being a key piece of the cog moving forward taking up that much cap space.

I disagree with your early season assessment, he wasn't playing well but was somehow accumulating points (assists and PP goals), but not driving the play in any way. His only strong don't was the NY reuniting of the lotto line.

Aaronp18 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:14 am

Mëds wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:58 pm
So are you saying you're in the camp to trade Hronek for Necas or to keep Hronek?

I don't think Petey is a guy that will be getting Necas the puck (I'm assuming that's who you mean).....Pettersson doesn't have the first step speed or strength on the puck to create space.

I’ll disagree a bit with your Petey assessment, earlier in the season he showed he’s very capable. Post January Petey not so much!

Really though Necas’ speed will help Petey create space. The D won’t be able to focus as much on EP11.6 if there’s another legit threat on the ice with him.

Anyways, like lever said, no surprise at the distain for EP from the resident EMT.

If Hronek is asking something around $8m per then yes I am on the side of move him for Necas. I don’t think he showed enough fortitude in the post season to warrant being a key piece of the cog moving forward taking up that much cap space.

Posted this in another thread

To Carolina - Hronek + B prospect and mid pick
To Ottawa - EP11.6 + Carolina 1st. (Maybe Van/Car retains a bit on EP)
To Van - B Tkachuk and Necas

Topper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:47 am I disagree with your early season assessment, he wasn't playing well but was somehow accumulating points (assists and PP goals), but not driving the play in any way. His only strong don't was the NY reuniting of the lotto line.

Well, I didn't say he was driving play just that he showed he was very capable.

But he does need some line-mates to help the cause, the defensive structure in the league is just too strong for any single player to be effective and drive the play consistently. We don't have a generational talent that we could attach a few decent players to in order to form a top line. We need highly capable playing partners for Petey or really anyone else we're hitching our wagon to right now.

That or we move him in a big package like theman suggested. But Brady isn't driving his own line for 100 games a year either without help!

Aaronp18 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:25 am

Topper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:47 am I disagree with your early season assessment, he wasn't playing well but was somehow accumulating points (assists and PP goals), but not driving the play in any way. His only strong don't was the NY reuniting of the lotto line.

Well, I didn't say he was driving play just that he showed he was very capable.

But he does need some line-mates to help the cause, the defensive structure in the league is just too strong for any single player to be effective and drive the play consistently. We don't have a generational talent that we could attach a few decent players to in order to form a top line. We need highly capable playing partners for Petey or really anyone else we're hitching our wagon to right now.

That or we move him in a big package like theman suggested. But Brady isn't driving his own line for 100 games a year either without help!

Which negates his $11.6 million per value.

Topper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:42 am

Aaronp18 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:25 am

Topper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:47 am I disagree with your early season assessment, he wasn't playing well but was somehow accumulating points (assists and PP goals), but not driving the play in any way. His only strong don't was the NY reuniting of the lotto line.

Well, I didn't say he was driving play just that he showed he was very capable.

But he does need some line-mates to help the cause, the defensive structure in the league is just too strong for any single player to be effective and drive the play consistently. We don't have a generational talent that we could attach a few decent players to in order to form a top line. We need highly capable playing partners for Petey or really anyone else we're hitching our wagon to right now.

That or we move him in a big package like theman suggested. But Brady isn't driving his own line for 100 games a year either without help!

Which negates his $11.6 million per value.

Debatable! It is typical for long term deals to weight heavy in the beginning but look far more reasonable as the cap increases annually, especially for players that are likely not at their prime.

Honestly just being devils advocate here, Petey is a good player but he's not my favourite by any means. He has his warts for sure and it remains to be seen if those show less as he matures or get worse. As he is what we have at the moment we should look to strengthen his line-mates in order to get the best from him.

Unless we decide to move him and change directions! We know how tough it is to move big assets though.

Really in 3-4 years $11.6m will likely be outside the top 10-15 in salaries in the NHL. In 8 years anything under $15m could seem like a deal.

Topper wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:42 am Which negates his $11.6 million per value.

...and the prosecution rests.

Aaronp18 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 9:42 pm We get one more year of Poolmans LTIR which essentially offsets OELs buyout hit next season.

The 25/26 season OELs buyout hit is much more and we don’t get Poolman’s relief anymore either. However, the hope is with Arizona gone the cap will increase much more substantially for that season enabling a bit of flexibility.

The notion that LTIR creates "extra" cap room is a common fallacy.

Sure... if you are right up to the cap... you can spend over the cap by the amount of the LTIR player's AAV.

But first you must count the player's AAV under the cap.

Example...

You are right at the (say) $88M cap limit counting Poolman's $2.5M.

You place Poolman on LTIR... now your cap is essentially $90.5M, counting Poolman's $2.5M.

If LTIR Poolman disappeared off the face of the Earth, your cap limit would be $88M, but you wouldn't have to count his $2.5M.

Also, that cap has to be included in the opening day roster and the player can only go onto LTIR after the opening day roster is set.

I seem to recall Allvin mentioning him having issues with the cap pertaining to Poolman’s contract. I wonder if he might try and dump the contract this summer to Ana or Chi.

BoS wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 5:11 pm I seem to recall Allvin mentioning him having issues with the cap pertaining to Poolman’s contract. I wonder if he might try and dump the contract this summer to Ana or Chi.

I think he was talking about that as it pertained to trying to add at the trade deadline.

Be nice to dump it, add SJ to our list perhaps.

Aaronp18 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 8:14 am

Mëds wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:58 pm
So are you saying you're in the camp to trade Hronek for Necas or to keep Hronek?

I don't think Petey is a guy that will be getting Necas the puck (I'm assuming that's who you mean).....Pettersson doesn't have the first step speed or strength on the puck to create space.

I’ll disagree a bit with your Petey assessment, earlier in the season he showed he’s very capable. Post January Petey not so much!

Really though Necas’ speed will help Petey create space. The D won’t be able to focus as much on EP11.6 if there’s another legit threat on the ice with him.

Anyways, like lever said, no surprise at the distain for EP from the resident EMT.

If Hronek is asking something around $8m per then yes I am on the side of move him for Necas. I don’t think he showed enough fortitude in the post season to warrant being a key piece of the cog moving forward taking up that much cap space.

What does my profession have to do with my disdain (learn the correct verb you hack!) for an overpaid player?

On Hronek.....

This was his first playoff action. Same for a bunch of guys (I don't count the bubble bullshit).....he didn't wow with point production, but I thought he was decent defensively and moved the puck well. It was our forwards who struggled to do much with the puck. I do think $8M is a bit steep, but at the same time what is the going rate for RHD's in the league who play top-pairing minutes on the reg?

We've discussed before but Hronek had (allegedly) an elbow problem second half and through post season.

Explains everything really.

But....

I would not pay him 8x8.

And....

I'd still move him for Necas (I'd be looking for + to our benefit due to RHD value) and deal with the D elsewhere.

Or....

If we keep him move 11.6, sign Lindholm and build top 6 depth from that Delta.

Rumour out there on da web has the Nucks and Elias bantering about a 7x7 deal.

donlever wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 7:47 am
Rumour out there on da web has the Nucks and Elias bantering about a 7x7 deal.

I'm all for bringing Lindholm back. Dude was a beast

I would also be open to entertaining offers on Pettersson to free up capital to rearrange the deck chairs. I don't just flush him for cap space alone either (Mëds.... ). He definitely has trade value, even with that $$$$

What about moving Hronek for Necas (or someone better if such a player is out there).

Then move Pettersson for a Hronek replacement (possibly upgrade) and parts.

Re-sign Lindholm.

I'd be OK making those moves even if the team's overall age moved closer to 30.

Outside of of Hughes, I don't see this team as being at the right age to open a decent 5 year window.

Right now we have a top-pairing RHD and top line forward who could bring very very good returns. Use them and push the chips all in for the next 3 years, but do so with caveat that the window is Bertuzzi-esque and don't try to extend it with band-aids.....3 year shot and then enter a proper rebuild that looks put together a team where the the oldest and youngest core members are within 3 years of each other in age.

Right now you have Miller at 31 and Hughes at 24. Brock, Pettersson, and Thatcher, are in between them.

Brock and Demko need new deals next year and the year after, that's poor timing if they repeat their 2023-24 performances because there is no ready, in-house, replacements pushing for their spots (maybe Silovs).

The other problem is that we currently have an essential part in the machine that more than a few of us think warrants a manufacturers recall.