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Island Nucklehead wrote: About the only thing going for him is the take-down of the PC/safe space crowd. High price to pay for that.

Hey, maybe you're not a total snowflake after all!

Strangelove wrote:

Island Nucklehead wrote:

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote:^ Nucklehead hasn't learned about fake-news-polls yet!

I see that Putin's attempts to undermine the credibility of western democratic institutions are working.
They've gotten to you too. So sad.

Per, it's no use trying to reason with the Trumpets. They will just spout more shit.

So you're blaming the false polls that predicted Hillary to win in a landslide... on Putin?

Welcome to Perland.

You're kidding yourself if you believe countries like Russia and China are not hard at work on the cyber front. America is too. It's a shame their population gets their news from Facebook and does not seek out legitimate reporting. Cue a Doc rant on the MSM as though it excuses Trump, who is one of the biggest proponents of fake news.

Strangelove wrote:

Island Nucklehead wrote:

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote:^ Nucklehead hasn't learned about fake-news-polls yet!

I see that Putin's attempts to undermine the credibility of western democratic institutions are working.
They've gotten to you too. So sad.

Per, it's no use trying to reason with the Trumpets. They will just spout more shit.

So you're blaming the false polls that predicted Hillary to win in a landslide... on Putin?

Welcome to Perland.

No, I'm blaming Putin for making people believe there were false or fake polls.

Clearly the polls were flawed, but there's a huge difference between poor methodology/shoddy work and actually faking things. The latter means it's on purpose. And why would anyone even want to do that?

Per wrote:

Wait a sec! I saw that game and there were way, way more people there

Island Nucklehead wrote:

Strangelove wrote:

Island Nucklehead wrote:

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote:^ Nucklehead hasn't learned about fake-news-polls yet!

I see that Putin's attempts to undermine the credibility of western democratic institutions are working.
They've gotten to you too. So sad.

Per, it's no use trying to reason with the Trumpets. They will just spout more shit.

So you're blaming the false polls that predicted Hillary to win in a landslide... on Putin?

You're kidding yourself if you believe countries like Russia and China are not hard at work on the cyber front.

Ummm... MSM reported those false polls that predicted Hillary to win in a landslide as the gospel.

You stand here before this court claiming the Russkies somehow created said false polls?!!

Yet you still swallow opinion polls (from sources you claim are Russian) on Don's popularity today?

Ya you've swallowed so much disinformation/misinformation that you don't know which way is up.

You are a proud product of today's MSM...

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote:

Island Nucklehead wrote:

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote:^ Nucklehead hasn't learned about fake-news-polls yet!

I see that Putin's attempts to undermine the credibility of western democratic institutions are working.
They've gotten to you too. So sad.

Per, it's no use trying to reason with the Trumpets. They will just spout more shit.

So you're blaming the false polls that predicted Hillary to win in a landslide... on Putin?

Welcome to Perland.

No, I'm blaming Putin for making people believe there were false or fake polls.

Clearly the polls were flawed, but there's a huge difference between poor methodology/shoddy work and actually faking things. The latter means it's on purpose. And why would anyone even want to do that?

So you're saying the MSM is incompetent.

Well, either way, the election polls were false.

(all false news = fake news - by some folks' definition btw)

Now: "Why would the MSM put out false news on purpose?"

Some say it was to make some Trump supporters stay home since their vote would be a waste of time.

There are other theories, but I think we should discuss more important things right now.

(like your obsession with Putin)

Strangelove wrote:
Ummm... MSM reported those false polls that predicted Hillary to win in a landslide as the gospel.

You stand here before this court claiming the Russkies somehow created said false polls?!!

Yet you still swallow opinion polls (from sources you claim are Russian) on Don's popularity today?

Ya you've swallowed so much disinformation/misinformation that you don't know which way is up.

You are a proud product of today's MSM...

Did I claim the Ruskies created those polls? You're losing it Strangelove. Hacking, information mining, releasing only hacked DNC material (can't wait for the RNC stuff), paid internet trolls and websites spreading pro-Trump/anti-Clinton messaging are some of the things Russia is accused of doing, with a clear preference for having Trump elected. Maybe they have dirt on him, maybe they just know he's an unstable imbecile who can be easily manipulated, and maybe because they know he sees himself as a strongman and admires Putin, so he will be more accepting of their current strategies and further drive a wedge into a fracturing NATO.

I think the polls were just polls. Snapshots of opinion in time, and obviously the pollsters were mistaken (like previous elections seen here). The polls had nothing to do with Russia. I do think a lot of people were embarrassed to be voting Trump, and likely would've lied about their intention to do so.

The real question is: How much is Putin paying YOU?

Island Nucklehead wrote: Did I claim the Ruskies created those polls?

*re-reads thread*

Pretty much... yup!

Or perhaps communication is not your forte...

Strangelove wrote:

Island Nucklehead wrote: Did I claim the Ruskies created those polls?

*re-reads thread*

perhaps reading is not my forte...

fixed.

Strangelove wrote:

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote:
So you're blaming the false polls that predicted Hillary to win in a landslide... on Putin?

Welcome to Perland.

No, I'm blaming Putin for making people believe there were false or fake polls.

Clearly the polls were flawed, but there's a huge difference between poor methodology/shoddy work and actually faking things. The latter means it's on purpose. And why would anyone even want to do that?

So you're saying the MSM is incompetent.

Well, either way, the election polls were false.

(all false news = fake news - by some folks' definition btw)

Time for an English lesson.

There is a difference between false and wrong.

False is the opposite of true. Claiming that a statement is false, implies deceit.

Wrong is the opposite of right. If something is wrong, it simply means that it is not correct.

The polls did not come up with the correct predictions. This means that they were incorrect, wrong or flawed.
By saying that they were "false" or "fake", you are not just saying that they were wrong.
You are saying that they were wrong on purpose.

Since all polls (afaik) were wrong, you are implying a huge conspiracy, involving all the different companies and organisations that presented polls on the presidential election.

Those are very strong words.

Strangelove wrote:Now: "Why would the MSM put out false news on purpose?"

Some say it was to make some Trump supporters stay home since their vote would be a waste of time.

This just does not make sense. It was known all along that more people supported Hillary, but her supporters were reluctant, whereas many of Trump's supporters felt very strongly for him. Thus, the lower the turnout, the more likely a Trump victory. This means that in order to win, it was essential for Hillary to get the vote out, to have as many people as possible vote in this election. And obviously, she failed: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/11/polit ... nout-2016/

If she were to release fake or false polls to help her win, those polls ought to show the candidates neck to neck; to make it clear that every single vote was necessary and vital to break the deadlock. That way she might convince the working poor to go to the polling station, even though it means taking a pay cut, since Americans astonishingly have their elections on a normal week day. That way she might convince the Sanders fans that rather than abstain or vote for Stein they should support her to prevent a Trump presidency.

Seriously, polls showing her winning by a landslide would be the worst thing that could happen to her (well, apart from FBI directors suggesting she may have broken the law or foreign governments hacking her e-mail...).

If those polls were fake, it must have been done by someone wanting to damage her campaign.

But there is a much simpler explanation. Remember that Hillary basically won the cities whereas Trump won the rural vote? Most polls typically have an over representation of urbanites; they are easier to get hold of. Also, a large subgroup of Trump voters are sceptical of the so called mainstream media, of the government and of anything that reeks of the college educated latte swilling elite. This makes them far more likely to either refuse to answer a poll or to not answer truthfully. Both these factors would help sway a poll in Hillary's favour, if the people in charge of the polls did not factor them in and adjust for them.

I tend to believe that the simplest answer usually is the correct one.
It is far more likely that the pollsters screwed up than that they willingly and wittingly published polls that they knew were wrong.

And you're a smart guy, so when you state that the polls were false, I have to conclude that you are being false.

Strangelove wrote:There are other theories, but I think we should discuss more important things right now.

(like your obsession with Putin)

Hey, I'm European.

If you had an axe murderer living two blocks down the street you would also be obsessing about it.

You should check out how the Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Finns, Poles, Georgians and others who actually share a border with Russia feel about the current situation, with a Russian president who has repeatedly violated the sovereignty of his neighbours, and a US president who seems to be OK with this and is talking about scrapping NATO.

My sister in law, who lives in Ontario, is drawing her conclusions. Her second oldest son has just been sent a notice that unless he does his military service, he will lose his Finnish citizenship when he turns 20. He has actually been considering heading over to Finland to do this, but his mother does not want him at the front line at a time when Putin may start to think he can do whatever he wants, with Trump's tacit approval.

Make no mistake about one thing. In no way am I in favor of scrapping NATO.
In fact, I am discouraged at how low our Canadian military has slipped over the years. It's a disgrace for the amount of border territory we must patrol.
What would interest me is, are statements on scrapping NATO because it's thought it's no longer necessary or because some countries are not contributing what they should?????

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote: So you're saying the MSM is incompetent.

Well, either way, the election polls were false.

(all false news = fake news - by some folks' definition btw)

Time for an English lesson.

There is a difference between false and wrong.

Wrong.

(listed as synonyms everywhere)

Per wrote: False is the opposite of true. Claiming that a statement is false, implies deceit.

False.

Per wrote: Wrong is the opposite of right. If something is wrong, it simply means that it is not correct.

True.

Per wrote: The polls did not come up with the correct predictions. This means that they were incorrect, wrong or flawed.
By saying that they were "false" or "fake", you are not just saying that they were wrong.
You are saying that they were wrong on purpose.

Wrong.

Per wrote: Since all polls (afaik) were wrong, you are implying a huge conspiracy, involving all the different companies and organisations that presented polls on the presidential election.

False.

Per wrote: If those polls were fake, it must have been done by someone wanting to damage her campaign.

The Russians?

Per wrote: But there is a much simpler explanation. Remember that Hillary basically won the cities whereas Trump won the rural vote? Most polls typically have an over representation of urbanites; they are easier to get hold of. Also, a large subgroup of Trump voters are sceptical of the so called mainstream media, of the government and of anything that reeks of the college educated latte swilling elite. This makes them far more likely to either refuse to answer a poll or to not answer truthfully. Both these factors would help sway a poll in Hillary's favour, if the people in charge of the polls did not factor them in and adjust for them.

I tend to believe that the simplest answer usually is the correct one.
It is far more likely that the pollsters screwed up than that they willingly and wittingly published polls that they knew were wrong.

AHHH.... now we're getting somewhere!

Back on topic: The popular opinion polls on Trump are wrong/false/untrue for the same reason!

(did you catch that Nucklehead?)

Per wrote:

Strangelove wrote:There are other theories, but I think we should discuss more important things right now.

(like your obsession with Putin)

Hey, I'm European.

If you had an axe murderer living two blocks down the street you would also be obsessing about it.

You should check out how the Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Finns, Poles, Georgians and others who actually share a border with Russia feel about the current situation, with a Russian president who has repeatedly violated the sovereignty of his neighbours, and a US president who seems to be OK with this and is talking about scrapping NATO.

My sister in law, who lives in Ontario, is drawing her conclusions. Her second oldest son has just been sent a notice that unless he does his military service, he will lose his Finnish citizenship when he turns 20. He has actually been considering heading over to Finland to do this, but his mother does not want him at the front line at a time when Putin may start to think he can do whatever he wants, with Trump's tacit approval.

Okay, so you're not the only paranoid liberal these days.

I blame "fake news".

Island Nucklehead wrote: Did I claim the Ruskies created those polls? You're losing it Strangelove. Hacking, information mining, releasing only hacked DNC material (can't wait for the RNC stuff), paid internet trolls and websites spreading pro-Trump/anti-Clinton messaging are some of the things Russia is accused of doing, with a clear preference for having Trump elected. Maybe they have dirt on him, maybe they just know he's an unstable imbecile who can be easily manipulated, and maybe because they know he sees himself as a strongman and admires Putin, so he will be more accepting of their current strategies and further drive a wedge into a fracturing NATO.

Maybe fake news has made you completely paranoid.

Docs taking some lumps in this thread.