We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

[Chef Boi RD]

I don’t think anyone is saying a financial crisis isn’t looming.. I just gotta believe somehow they will figure it out.... can’t live in the doom and gloom headspace

Rats what does it say when a life long military man such as president Eisenhower tried to warn the American people of the Military Industrial Complex when he left office in 1961. It ain’t working anymore like he warned it eventually wouldn’t

[rats19]

I don’t think anyone is saying a financial crisis isn’t looming.. I just gotta believe somehow they will figure it out.... can’t live in the doom and gloom headspace

Rats what does it say when a life long military man such as president Eisenhower tried to warn the American people of the Military Industrial Complex when he left office in 1961

It says you gotta watch it.... which I agree with. It doesn’t mean stop it and lower your defence standards it means figure it out while maintaining safety

[Chef Boi RD]

The coronavirus has simply pointed out how fragile and poorly managed Americas infrastructure is due its terrible debt-to-gross product national ratio. Which is why Trump is demanding the US to open up again.

[Chef Boi RD]

I don’t think anyone is saying a financial crisis isn’t looming.. I just gotta believe somehow they will figure it out.... can’t live in the doom and gloom headspace

Rats what does it say when a life long military man such as president Eisenhower tried to warn the American people of the Military Industrial Complex when he left office in 1961

It says you gotta watch it.... which I agree with. It doesn’t mean stop it and lower your defence standards it means figure it out while maintaining safety

But they are not watching it. It’s out of control, it’s going to collapse eventually if they don’t get a hold on it, make changes. Two choices completely bankrupt the nation or roll back the military industrial complex, it doesn’t work anymore

[rats19]

I don’t think anyone is saying a financial crisis isn’t looming.. I just gotta believe somehow they will figure it out.... can’t live in the doom and gloom headspace

Rats what does it say when a life long military man such as president Eisenhower tried to warn the American people of the Military Industrial Complex when he left office in 1961

It says you gotta watch it.... which I agree with. It doesn’t mean stop it and lower your defence standards it means figure it out while maintaining safety

But they are not watching it. It’s out of control, it’s going to collapse eventually if they don’t get a hold on it, make changes. Two choices completely bankrupt the nation or roll back the military industrial complex, it doesn’t work anymore

Build the economy find less expensive ways of maintaining
They will do what it takes when they have to.

[Strangelove]

Yeah, come on Dude, people have been saying "it doesn’t work anymore" for decades...

[Chef Boi RD]

Yeah, come on Dude, people have been saying "it doesn’t work anymore" for decades...

But it’s not working, Doc. Or at least they can’t continue this way. China is America’s biggest lender, they’ve been warning the US for years to get their financial house in order, the only reason China is lax for now is because of trade between the two countries which is why Trump keeps bringing trade up to remind them to stay off their backs. But China will eventually stop investing in US Treasuries the further the US becomes incapable of paying back their debt. In other words the US is fucked

[Mickey107]

I don’t think anyone is saying a financial crisis isn’t looming.. I just gotta believe somehow they will figure it out.... can’t live in the doom and gloom headspace

Rats what does it say when a life long military man such as president Eisenhower tried to warn the American people of the Military Industrial Complex when he left office in 1961. It ain’t working anymore like he warned it eventually wouldn’t

Dude; What did President John F. Kennedy "almost have to do a very short time after Eisenhower's speech?

During the last year of Jimmy Carter's term, why was the PTL club running TV segments of how far ahead the Soviet's were in terms of numbers
of nuclear missiles and capability of deploying them to US soil.
There has been many interviews from ex Soviet military generals that say "yes" we were planning a potential attack.
How do you feel about China and North Korea growing their warfare technology in an exponential manor?
I do not feel well at all without some degree of "Balance Of Power"
I'm glad I got neighbors that will fight for their life-style.
We are miles away from a utopian society. Miles. It's fine to wish it but you really wanna let your guard down to see if it works?
Not me.

[Mickey107]

Yeah, come on Dude, people have been saying "it doesn’t work anymore" for decades...

But it’s not working, Doc. Or at least they can’t continue this way. China is America’s biggest lender, they’ve been warning the US for years to get their financial house in order, the only reason China is lax for now is because of trade between the two countries which is why Trump keeps bringing trade up to remind them to stay off their backs. But China will eventually stop investing in US Treasuries the further the US becomes incapable of paying back their debt. In other words the US is fucked

Call Sands. LOL---they're only paying the interest anyways. That debt aint never getting paid back. They know this..

[Per]

https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/sweden-r ... ockdowns/

Sweden has recorded more than 19,600 confirmed cases of COVID-19 as of Tuesday afternoon, resulting in 2,355 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University. By comparison, Sweden’s Nordic neighbors — Denmark, Norway and Finland — have recorded just 434, 206 and 199 deaths, respectively, as of Tuesday afternoon.

Yikes. These stats are from a few weeks ago even...

Per, would you attribute the idiocy of the swedish policy more to arrogance or stupidity? I'm leaning towards arrogance

I would say neither. I understand the reasoning behind the policies of Sweden’s Public Health Agency. They realize the virus has spread worldwide. There is no way it can be contained. Well, sure, a lockdown. But the minute you open things up it will be there. This is not about getting through a few weeks or a few months. This is about sticking it out for approximately two years or more.

Thus they have not wanted to implement rules that cannot be in place for more than a few months, as it will not serve any real purpose, but will cripple the economy, causing bankrupcies and unemployment, which in turn will lead to health problems. Unemployment increases the risk of depression, suicide, alcoholism, obesity, high blood pressure and even some types of cancer. It has been calculated that every percentage point of increased unemployment in the USA leads to 40,000 premature deaths.

The Swedish strategy has been to flatten the curve without enforcing rules that cannot be in place for a long time.

The virus will continue to pose a threat until we achieve herd immunity, which can either happen through a majority of the population having had the disease and developed antibodies or through developing a vaccine.

A properly vetted and tested vaccine could not really be available faster than in eighteen months. If they launch something sooner they must have cut corners, which immediately raises concerns over effectiveness and safety.

So either, we keep all of society in lockdown for at least two years (18 months to develop and test the vaccine, at least 6 months to massproduce, distribute and vaccinate, or we try to let the virus spread through the healthy population at a rate that is not too fast for the hospitals to be able to cope with, while attempting to isolate and protect the risk groups.

A Harvard study that I linked to earlier suggested that ideally the spread of the virus should be slowed down between 20 and 40% to flatten the curve sufficiently to not overload healthcare capacity, but if you slow it more than 60%, the second peak will get worse than the first one, so you have not solved the problem, just postponed it.

A lockdown that lasts less than two years will basically just push the peak (and also the achieving of herd immunity) a little bit further down the road while devastating the economy.

The Finnish state epidemiologist, Salminen, just last week expressed concern that Finland may have gone into lockdown too early, as they have hardly any cases outside of Helsinki, and that they may have to ease up on restrictions.

Comparing covid stats between Sweden and the other Nordic countries at this point serves no purpose. We are at completely different stages. This is a marathon, and we have barely left the starting line. The only resulrs that matter are the ones at the end of the race, roughly two years down the line.

At present it is estimated that some 25% of people in Stockholm have had the disease, and at no point has the hospitals been overwhelmed. There is still roughly 30% spare capacity in intensive care. Oh, but that is only because over two months Sweden managed to more than double the amount of ICU spots available. In part through converting operating rooms to ICUs and taking in retired staff as well as having OR and anaesthesia nurses switch to intensive care. This has of course meant that most elective surgery has been cancelled or postponed, which of course is a problem we will need to address down the road.

In Finland perhaps 2-3% have had covid-19. We will be back in business long before they reach their peak. And sure, if they can stick it out for two years, till there is a vaccine, maybe they have saved a few lives, but will anyone still have a job? And will society still function with all companies bankrupt and no taxes flowing into the public coffers?

Also, a lot of people point to the high death tolls in Belgium or even Sweden without realizing that these two countries count all deaths of people with corona symptoms, whether tested or not, whereas most countries only count deaths in hospitals with confirmed covid-19. The latter approach leads ro a huge gap between reported corona deaths and excess deaths compared to previous years. Eg the US is estimated by the Financial Times to have 60% more corona deaths than they report. Thus comparing these artificially low numbers with those that report all excess deaths is really a case of apples and oranges.

The relevant numbers imho are excess deaths compared to historical data, and there is also no use comparing numbers now. Get back in two years time, and we can see which strategy was more successful.

[Chef Boi RD]

Dude; What did President John F. Kennedy "almost have to do a very short time after Eisenhower's speech?

During the last year of Jimmy Carter's term, why was the PTL club running TV segments of how far ahead the Soviet's were in terms of numbers
of nuclear missiles and capability of deploying them to US soil.
There has been many interviews from ex Soviet military generals that say "yes" we were planning a potential attack.
How do you feel about China and North Korea growing their warfare technology in an exponential manor?
I do not feel well at all without some degree of "Balance Of Power"
I'm glad I got neighbors that will fight for their life-style.
We are miles away from a utopian society. Miles. It's fine to wish it but you really wanna let your guard down to see if it works?
Not me.

Stick to roofing, Mickey

[Cousin Strawberry]

https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/sweden-r ... ockdowns/

Sweden has recorded more than 19,600 confirmed cases of COVID-19 as of Tuesday afternoon, resulting in 2,355 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University. By comparison, Sweden’s Nordic neighbors — Denmark, Norway and Finland — have recorded just 434, 206 and 199 deaths, respectively, as of Tuesday afternoon.

Yikes. These stats are from a few weeks ago even...

Per, would you attribute the idiocy of the swedish policy more to arrogance or stupidity? I'm leaning towards arrogance

I would say neither. I understand the reasoning behind the policies of Sweden’s Public Health Agency. They realize the virus has spread worldwide. There is no way it can be contained. Well, sure, a lockdown. But the minute you open things up it will be there. This is not about getting through a few weeks or a few months. This is about sticking it out for approximately two years or more.

Thus they have not wanted to implement rules that cannot be in place for more than a few months, as it will not serve any real purpose, but will cripple the economy, causing bankrupcies and unemployment, which in turn will lead to health problems. Unemployment increases the risk of depression, suicide, alcoholism, obesity, high blood pressure and even some types of cancer. It has been calculated that every percentage point of increased unemployment in the USA leads to 40,000 premature deaths.

The Swedish strategy has been to flatten the curve without enforcing rules that cannot be in place for a long time.

The virus will continue to pose a threat until we achieve herd immunity, which can either happen through a majority of the population having had the disease and developed antibodies or through developing a vaccine.

A properly vetted and tested vaccine could not really be available faster than in eighteen months. If they launch something sooner they must have cut corners, which immediately raises concerns over effectiveness and safety.

So either, we keep all of society in lockdown for at least two years (18 months to develop and test the vaccine, at least 6 months to massproduce, distribute and vaccinate, or we try to let the virus spread through the healthy population at a rate that is not too fast for the hospitals to be able to cope with, while attempting to isolate and protect the risk groups.

A Harvard study that I linked to earlier suggested that ideally the spread of the virus should be slowed down between 20 and 40% to flatten the curve sufficiently to not overload healthcare capacity, but if you slow it more than 60%, the second peak will get worse than the first one, so you have not solved the problem, just postponed it.

A lockdown that lasts less than two years will basically just push the peak (and also the achieving of herd immunity) a little bit further down the road while devastating the economy.

The Finnish state epidemiologist, Salminen, just last week expressed concern that Finland may have gone into lockdown too early, as they have hardly any cases outside of Helsinki, and that they may have to ease up on restrictions.

Comparing covid stats between Sweden and the other Nordic countries at this point serves no purpose. We are at completely different stages. This is a marathon, and we have barely left the starting line. The only resulrs that matter are the ones at the end of the race, roughly two years down the line.

At present it is estimated that some 25% of people in Stockholm have had the disease, and at no point has the hospitals been overwhelmed. There is still roughly 30% spare capacity in intensive care. Oh, but that is only because over two months Sweden managed to more than double the amount of ICU spots available. In part through converting operating rooms to ICUs and taking in retired staff as well as having OR and anaesthesia nurses switch to intensive care. This has of course meant that most elective surgery has been cancelled or postponed, which of course is a problem we will need to address down the road.

In Finland perhaps 2-3% have had covid-19. We will be back in business long before they reach their peak. And sure, if they can stick it out for two years, till there is a vaccine, maybe they have saved a few lives, but will anyone still have a job? And will society still function with all companies bankrupt and no taxes flowing into the public coffers?

Also, a lot of people point to the high death tolls in Belgium or even Sweden without realizing that these two countries count all deaths of people with corona symptoms, whether tested or not, whereas most countries only count deaths in hospitals with confirmed covid-19. The latter approach leads ro a huge gap between reported corona deaths and excess deaths compared to previous years. Eg the US is estimated by the Financial Times to have 60% more corona deaths than they report. Thus comparing these artificially low numbers with those that report all excess deaths is really a case of apples and oranges.

The relevant numbers imho are excess deaths compared to historical data, and there is also no use comparing numbers now. Get back in two years time, and we can see which strategy was more successful.

Herd immunity as a solution is still being debated Per. Also, fiddling numbers/cherry picking statistics to justify the absurdly high death rate is a rediculous defense.

Sweden perplexingly chose their own unconventional path which was to sacrifice the weak due to the country lacking the liquid resources to bankroll their citizens into staying home. I was reading an interview with an exasperated epidemiologist from Gothenburg who was not holding back in his condemnation of your countries' covid response policy. Your experts are most certainly not united in support of it whatsoever and the proof is in the body count.

My wife lost her grandfather today to it. It is certainly taking it toll in Sweden and i find it bizarre that you are so voraciously defending this.

[Strangelove]

i find it bizarre that you are so voraciously defending this.

Per voraciously defends everything Sweden does.

He's trying to convince everyone the left way is the right way.

Sorry to hear about your wife's grampa...

[Megaterio Llamas]

[Cousin Strawberry]

i find it bizarre that you are so voraciously defending this.

Per voraciously defends everything Sweden does.

He's trying to convince everyone the left way is the right way.

Sorry to hear about your wife's grampa...

Well forking over government cash to stay home for the benefit of society is about as left wing as it gets...you would think Per would see this.

Maybe he only believes in Swedish social democrat left wing politics?

It was sad the old guy died. He would drink whiskey with me and talk in swedish about hunting moose and guns while i guessed what the fuck he was saying. He couldnt speak a word of english.