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I say it is leftist, as when you look at the spectrum, the Right's core values are a belief in the Individual over the group, small, unobtrusive government, and full Democracy and Capitalism. The Left believes in large governement, groups over individuals, high taxes, control over freeedom, and heavy government involvement in the economy, and dictatorship. Communism is Leftist, and wants the State to own production, while Fascism is Leftist, and usually leans more to state control of production, by telling corporations what to make, for how much, etc. As the main difference between the two, it's a pretty fine line And, as someone mentioned earlier, Russia (and China, imo) are more Fascist than Communist, as they don't own the corportations, they just have their oligarchs instead.

To simplify the spectrum, the Far Right, if we follow the spectrum, would be a form of anarchy, with almost no governemnt, and no rules. The Far Left turns into a Communist/Fascist dictatorship.

It is interesting how Fascism grew out of the Marxist communist beliefs, but was mostly labelled as being Right Wing because the Italians and Germans hated Russia so much that they preferred to be called Fascists intead, as they were pretty much the same as Communism.

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 9:06 am The Left believes in large governement, groups over individuals, high taxes, control over freeedom, and heavy government involvement in the economy, and dictatorship.

Wait. So I have it clear - Donald Trump's current American government is Leftist in your view?

Anyone else find it funny that trump is taking the money from tariffs and giving it to farmers who have been hurt by tariffs?

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 11:54 am

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 9:06 am The Left believes in large governement, groups over individuals, high taxes, control over freeedom, and heavy government involvement in the economy, and dictatorship.

Wait. So I have it clear - Donald Trump's current American government is Leftist in your view?

In some aspects, very much Yes. To quote another Leftist (Bruce Cockburn), "The trouble with Normal is it's always getting worse". The trouble with the "middle" is it's always drifting Left.

We have moved so far from being a Capitalist Democracy that we have muddled up every political definition, and most social definitions

And since we are into re-defining things, I will give Trump a passing grade. Btw, I am grading on a curve, and I bumped up all scores by 20%. (No shit, I had a 2nd year hardware/logic class that had a 29% class average on the mid term. Our prof bumped everyone 20%, and still had a failing average. He was awesome)

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 2:32 pm ...I will give Trump a passing grade...

Based on what criteria?

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 2:32 pm

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 11:54 am

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 9:06 am The Left believes in large governement, groups over individuals, high taxes, control over freeedom, and heavy government involvement in the economy, and dictatorship.

Wait. So I have it clear - Donald Trump's current American government is Leftist in your view?

In some aspects, very much Yes. To quote another Leftist (Bruce Cockburn), "The trouble with Normal is it's always getting worse". The trouble with the "middle" is it's always drifting Left.

We have moved so far from being a Capitalist Democracy that we have muddled up every political definition, and most social definitions

And since we are into re-defining things, I will give Trump a passing grade. Btw, I am grading on a curve, and I bumped up all scores by 20%. (No shit, I had a 2nd year hardware/logic class that had a 29% class average on the mid term. Our prof bumped everyone 20%, and still had a failing average. He was awesome)

Gotcha, I totally understand that our definitions certainly need some re-defining, as you say - they have certainly become very muddled. Though, I see his Government as much more authoritarian when compared to the last 2-4 governments around his two terms, especially this term. By way of examples, is his use of executive orders - and by-passing the Senate etc.

And passing grade? Is that good enough? Though I definitely do not agree with you there, I'd give him a solid F. In my opinion, he is no leader. He seeks to divide, and conquer. That has always been his M.O. Again, when compared to previous Presidents, I'd say only Biden joins him with a failing grade. Obama, Bush, Clinton etc., all would be way ahead of him on the curve.

Cornuck wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 3:04 pm

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 2:32 pm ...I will give Trump a passing grade...

Based on what criteria?

On a curve, bumped up 20%. So, a solid, unadjusted 31%.

Cousin Strawberry wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 6:23 am

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 9:55 pm

From al-Qaida to the Upper East Side: Syria’s new leader makes his debut on the world stage

Ahmed al-Sharaa faces a tough task in reassuring the UN of his statesmanship while maintaining authority at home

‘What reconciliation? What forgiveness?’: Syria’s deadly reckoning



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ions-syria

Is it just me or does he look like a muslim JD Vance?

The master of disguises!

Maybe al-Jolani can be Vance's vice presidential running mate in 2828. He's already got the beard.

Per wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 5:39 am

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:17 pm ^^Find a woman who looks at you the way Georgia Meloni looks at former ISIS and al-Qaeda leader al-Jolani

Well, they've both been part of and risen within the ranks of extreme authoritarian right wing organisations and now want to be seen as responsible heads of government. Him within Al Qaeda, her within the Italian fascist movement. I guess they can relate.

Meloni might have some competition for al-Jolani's affection. Trump also thinks he's "a good looking guy."

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 3:42 pm On a curve, bumped up 20%. So, a solid, unadjusted 31%.

Even the 11% I have to question!

It looks like former French president Nicolas Sarkozy will be in jail for the next five years. Poor fellow. This sort of thing must be routine in those circles, or so we hear

Why did they single this individual out?

Sarkozy prison sentence lays bare political divisions in France

French ex-president Nicolas Sarkozy's bombshell conviction in a Libyan funding probe has elicited starkly opposing reactions from left and right, exposing France's political divide.

https://www.france24.com/en/video/20250 ... -in-france

Cornuck wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 4:36 pm

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 3:42 pm On a curve, bumped up 20%. So, a solid, unadjusted 31%.

Even the 11% I have to question!

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 11:54 am

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 9:06 am The Left believes in large governement, groups over individuals, high taxes, control over freeedom, and heavy government involvement in the economy, and dictatorship.

Wait. So I have it clear - Donald Trump's current American government is Leftist in your view?

That’s an ironic take. I’d say, spot on. Except for the taxes part. While tariffs are indeed a tax, they are not applied directly by the government to the citizen.

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 3:27 pm

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 2:32 pm

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 11:54 am

Tciso wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 9:06 am The Left believes in large governement, groups over individuals, high taxes, control over freeedom, and heavy government involvement in the economy, and dictatorship.

Wait. So I have it clear - Donald Trump's current American government is Leftist in your view?

In some aspects, very much Yes. To quote another Leftist (Bruce Cockburn), "The trouble with Normal is it's always getting worse". The trouble with the "middle" is it's always drifting Left.

We have moved so far from being a Capitalist Democracy that we have muddled up every political definition, and most social definitions

And since we are into re-defining things, I will give Trump a passing grade. Btw, I am grading on a curve, and I bumped up all scores by 20%. (No shit, I had a 2nd year hardware/logic class that had a 29% class average on the mid term. Our prof bumped everyone 20%, and still had a failing average. He was awesome)

Gotcha, I totally understand that our definitions certainly need some re-defining, as you say - they have certainly become very muddled. Though, I see his Government as much more authoritarian when compared to the last 2-4 governments around his two terms, especially this term. By way of examples, is his use of executive orders - and by-passing the Senate etc.

And passing grade? Is that good enough? Though I definitely do not agree with you there, I'd give him a solid F. In my opinion, he is no leader. He seeks to divide, and conquer. That has always been his M.O. Again, when compared to previous Presidents, I'd say only Biden joins him with a failing grade. Obama, Bush, Clinton etc., all would be way ahead of him on the curve.

Can’t argue with that…..especially the passing grades for predecessors, at least in comparison.

The question is: Why?

I think that in the progression of a society, citizens are the product of their governments to a point of development, and then the governments start to become the product of their citizens in attempts to maintain holds on position via popular opinion rather than governing based upon law and logic. We are at the latter, imho.

The average citizen is not educated enough, nor objective enough, to process things in a way that accepts “gain through pain” as a necessary part of progress. Maybe a better way to say that would be a recognition of “you can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs” or “you have to spend money to make money”.

Technology (both manufacturing and information) has rapidly progressed over the last 30 years, and we have gone from a society that was driven by “slow dopamine” to one that is addicted to the “fast dopamine” of instant gratification. Apply that to politics, and whoever promises the most free (or cheap) stuff, and says things that make you feel good, is who you will gravitate towards.

Trudeau made his hay by shaming the hell out of the population and then promising change that led people to believe that going his way would absolve (or at least assuage) them of their guilty conscience.

Intelligent, objective, people, those who thoughtfully considered the matters at hand, saw that for what it was. The under-educated masses could not see the forest for the trees.

Same thing in the US on the left vs right, though not so much from the actual head honchos.

Trump is a product of that…..he picked the soft spots, the things people hate about politics, and then he talks the talk of the less enlightened. His grandiose exaggerations of scale ring true to the average Joe voter who talks about issues over a few pitchers of Bud-Lite but never does more than regurgitate headlines with loud shop talk. He’s doing the same thing other politicians do, he’s just doing it louder and connecting with the larger part of the voting population in strategic electorate districts.