You sign them as early as you can, right after the playoffs end. Don’t wait until next summer. There are a number of RFA years still and they haven’t lead the lead in any category yet, so you try for 8m x 8 and hopefully end up no higher than 9m x 8. These two Calder winners should end up with pretty identical contracts. They should treat Hughes as a Calder winner regardless if he or Makar get the actual trophy. Once they are locked up, it becomes clear how much cap is left for others to get multiple year deals. Until they sign, they can probably only offer one year deals to most of their UFAs.
Is it a wait see who signs what and first between camp Makar and camp Hughes?
Speaking of Hughes since most sane minds would pick Hughes over 1st overall selection - Dahlin. Would most pick Quinn Hughes over 1st overall selection - Jack Hughes?
“If you want to know who your friends are, get a jail sentence” - Charles Bukowski
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:11 am
Is it a wait see who signs what and first between camp Makar and camp Hughes?
Speaking of Hughes since most sane minds would pick Hughes over 1st overall selection - Dahlin. Would most pick Quinn Hughes over 1st overall selection - Jack Hughes?
Cherry Picker wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:23 am
You sign them as early as you can, right after the playoffs end. Don’t wait until next summer. There are a number of RFA years still and they haven’t lead the lead in any category yet, so you try for 8m x 8 and hopefully end up no higher than 9m x 8. These two Calder winners should end up with pretty identical contracts. They should treat Hughes as a Calder winner regardless if he or Makar get the actual trophy. Once they are locked up, it becomes clear how much cap is left for others to get multiple year deals. Until they sign, they can probably only offer one year deals to most of their UFAs.
What is "fair value" for Petey and Hughes? Covid has made the world a very different place now.
To me it's a question whether there will even be an NHL season next year.
It's one thing to have a tournament in a bubble, but they cannot do a whole season like that. Until there is travel again (free movement across borders, with no quarantine) and fans in the stands, I don't see how the NHL can operate. TV revenues alone are not enough, they need gate receipts.
Bottom line: many teams could be facing a financial disaster next year which will impact the money teams have to spend and in turn will affect what the players get. I wouldn't want to be a UFA right now.
Cherry Picker wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:23 am
You sign them as early as you can, right after the playoffs end. Don’t wait until next summer. There are a number of RFA years still and they haven’t lead the lead in any category yet, so you try for 8m x 8 and hopefully end up no higher than 9m x 8. These two Calder winners should end up with pretty identical contracts. They should treat Hughes as a Calder winner regardless if he or Makar get the actual trophy. Once they are locked up, it becomes clear how much cap is left for others to get multiple year deals. Until they sign, they can probably only offer one year deals to most of their UFAs.
What is "fair value" for Petey and Hughes? Covid has made the world a very different place now.
To me it's a question whether there will even be an NHL season next year.
It's one thing to have a tournament in a bubble, but they cannot do a whole season like that. Until there is travel again (free movement across borders, with no quarantine) and fans in the stands, I don't see how the NHL can operate. TV revenues alone are not enough, they need gate receipts.
Bottom line: many teams could be facing a financial disaster next year which will impact the money teams have to spend and in turn will affect what the players get. I wouldn't want to be a UFA right now.
COVID19 has thrown what can be taken for granted, i.e. an annual cap increase of $2M+ to keeping it flat for at least 2 years. Also like you said there may not even be a season next year or if there is, look at a 48 game schedule done in bubbles of some sort.
Carl Yagro wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:26 pm
You're going to have to pay EP over $10M/year and Hughes at least $9M/year soon... when the cap will likely still be stagnant.
What Barrie would want could be spread out over 2 or 3 less offensive but much more solid Dmen.
Hard no.
Yes, and that is probably getting off easy imvho.
I've been think $11 apiece for the two of them when it comes right down to it.
Unless they blow us away next year with 100 and 70 point seasons, plus a deep playoff run, I think we've all lost our heads if that's the price tag on those guys.
See my above post on Petey.
As for Huggie Bear, you are talking about making him one of the highest paid defensemen in the league. Let's just wait and see what Pietrangelo gets this summer and go from there. I think lessons have been learned when it comes to Karlsson and Subban, you can't scuttle your own boat on offensive dmen.
$8.5M for Petey
$8.5M for Hughes
Hopefully teams everywhere are looking at Leafland and learning some valuable lessons.
I think if you plan to offer $8.5 to those two you'll have to look to perhaps trade both of them. Maybe avoid high salaries altogether and look to bring in a pair of nice multiplayer packages and win with depth and a superior bench. Turn Vancouver into a destination for middle class players currently feeling the cap squeeze. That's coming at it from an angle no one expects.
Can you explain why you think Petey is worth Matthews level coin when his production and style more closely mirrors a guy like Sebastian Aho or Evgeni Kuznetsov?
Hughes is a wild card, he's American, and he's also incredibly talented, so he might dig his heels in and demand huge cash.....However John Carlson is making $8M after winning a cup on the heels of a 68 point season, he then followed that up with a pair of 70 point seasons, this year tracking towards 80+. He's also more effective in his own end.
So again, why are you so convinced that they will be commanding salaries that put them among the league's 10 highest paid players?
And I'll also add that your forecasting this in a time where the salary cap has flattened and there's no guarantee that revenues will increase over the next couple years to drive it up further.
Remember I'm projecting ahead to where I think they will be a year from now, I'm not basing this on where they are currently. It's a guesstimate and at least it doesn't change over time. I have noticed a lot of people were willing to pay Pettersson but wanted to short Hughes a while back, and recently that tendency seems to be reversing itself with Petey now finding himself on the short end of the stick. I personally don't see us getting a bargain on either of them but we'll see what happens.
I'm sure the GMs and owners will point to the current financial situation during any negotiations in the next few years.
The NHLPA and agents will recognize this but don't expect to have top-end, franchise players (for their respective teams) to take huge cuts. Maybe in term? but who knows? I certainly can't say what's going to happen when Petey and Hughes are ready for their next contracts.
But like Blob says, you can't make comparisons on future contracts with older contracts. Market value, market demands (especially local ones) change. A lot of it has to do with timing. It's not what a player's perceived current value is against his peers as defined by what fans think.
Much of it will also be organizations gauging future value and output that will define the floor/ceiling of both parties to negotiate with.
The thing with the Canucks situation is that there was opportunity for both EP & Hughes to seize #1 roles immediately from Day 1. Opportunity and because their talent justified it. So, that's also a plus for negotiations.
There's no way McDavid is contractually twice the player as Mckinnon, who is widely regarded as possibly the second best player in the world. How many contracts already surpass Mckinnon's? How many more will from lesser players?
Thems the breaks in a "free" market. That being said, I would be estatic if both can be signed long term on discounted contracts. Hope they channel their inner Sedins to give the team a solid.
Carl Yagro wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:11 pm
I'm sure the GMs and owners will point to the current financial situation during any negotiations in the next few years.
The NHLPA and agents will recognize this but don't expect to have top-end, franchise players (for their respective teams) to take huge cuts. Maybe in term? but who knows? I certainly can't say what's going to happen when Petey and Hughes are ready for their next contracts.
But like Blob says, you can't make comparisons on future contracts with older contracts. Market value, market demands (especially local ones) change. A lot of it has to do with timing. It's not what a player's perceived current value is against his peers as defined by what fans think.
Much of it will also be organizations gauging future value and output that will define the floor/ceiling of both parties to negotiate with.
The thing with the Canucks situation is that there was opportunity for both EP & Hughes to seize #1 roles immediately from Day 1. Opportunity and because their talent justified it. So, that's also a plus for negotiations.
There's no way McDavid is contractually twice the player as Mckinnon, who is widely regarded as possibly the second best player in the world. How many contracts already surpass Mckinnon's? How many more will from lesser players?
Thems the breaks in a "free" market. That being said, I would be estatic if both can be signed long term on discounted contracts. Hope they channel their inner Sedins to give the team a solid.
Doyle Hargraves wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:21 pm
Lol at Mëds bringing up contracts signed a few years ago.
Aho - signed July 1 2019 when the cap was 81.5 mil.
Kuznetsov - signed in 2017 when the cap was 75 mil - so a <10% increase.
Carlson - signed July 2018 with a 79.5 cap, so <3% increase.
Doyle Hargraves wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:21 pm
Lol at Mëds bringing up contracts signed a few years ago.
Aho - signed July 1 2019 when the cap was 81.5 mil.
Kuznetsov - signed in 2017 when the cap was 75 mil - so a <10% increase.
Carlson - signed July 2018 with a 79.5 cap, so <3% increase.
I’m more referring to the guys he brought up in his previous post like Scheifele, Lindholm, Barkov, Monahan, Nuge etc.
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
The Brown Wizard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:07 pm
Benning seems to find ways to convince his important pieces to sign for less than expected. Theres no reason to believe this trend wont continue
Its when theres a UFA he covets available that we need to worry
I think he’s done a decent job of of getting the RFA’s locked up to solid contracts. Not sure I’d say they were signing for “less than expected”
Like you say though, it’s the UFA’s that grab him by that jet black skullet and have their way with him
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
