Canucks News N Notes 24-25

[Strangelove]

Fans got impatient with the foolish signings, piss poor trades and stupid 1st round selections .

An excuse for the impatience.

Like I said, those things happen with every team in every rebuild.

Sure Benning hit a couple of home runs and missed on a couple 1st rounds like many others, but his drafting beyond Boeser, Demko, Hughes and Pettersson was atrocious

I would argue Benning's drafting was better than most.

(and dude, those are some beauty picks right there!)

He was brought in with a mandate to return the team to the playoffs after the team missed in 2013-14.

(owners said they owed it to the Sedins)

And he did manage to get them back to the playoffs.

Benning had managed to grab Demko in the second round a couple of months after being hired.

After making the playoffs, as per the mandate, Benning managed to get Boeser at 23rd O/A.

Then 4 losing seasons, followed by 1st round picks Juolevi, Pettersson, Hughes, and Podkolzin.

Maybe 2 blown picks, but it might be too early to write-off the Pod.

Still, he had acquired Demmer and Boeser later than expected, so, doing well overall.

The next draft was 2020 in which Nucks did not have a pick in the first 2 rounds.

The 1st was dealt for JT Miller and the 2nd for Toffoli.

Two trades that were considered good for your Vancouver Canucks.

The next year Canucks did not have a first due to the big trade.

That trade did not work out so well for us, although we still have Garland to show for it.

A few months later Benning was relieved of his duties.

He also managed to draft some other NHLers along the way like...

Forsling, McCann, Hoglander, and Silovs.

And some tweeners like Gadjovich, Kole Lind, Lockwood, Gaudette (don't laugh, 220 games!), Brisebois.

I mean, by definition, tweeners aren't exactly awesome, but they're needed.

The summer of 2020 was one of the most poorly managed off seasons in decades.

I’d say the fans got impatient alright.

Well as my very special friend Blob always says, "He wan outta time".

Yeahno, nice try, but the fans were impatient all along

... 2020 was Elmer's 7th off-season with the Nucks.

Of course you're referring to the walking of Marxstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli.

Well they were pending UFAs on a team pushing for the playoffs.

We knew we were going to lose one or two of them.

Losing all 3 hurt, but most Nuckers wanted Demko over Marx.

And most thought Tanev was too injury-prone to be given term.

(looks like we were wrong on that one, but hey, hindsight is 20/20)

I think most wanted to re-sign Toffoli, but hey, we lost him.

Wait... did you criticize both the trading of a 2nd for Toffoli AND... letting Toffoli walk?

Having said all this, I just want to go on record saying James Elmer Benning was a lousy GM.

(I abhor arguing)

[Meds]

Doc twists words and sentences so much it is nauseating.

Then he twists in the win when called out.

I find I'm reading his posts only slightly more often than I read Chef's. I'd say it would be dead even if it weren't for the fact that he's a mod.

[Strangelove]

Yes and no.

Fans didn’t get impatient with a rebuild. Fans got impatient with spinning wheels and questionable decisions. Some whiffed picks

Yes well there are "questionable decisions and whiffed picks" in every rebuild.

Trust me, Vancouver fans got impatient.

and the lack of second round selections due to Benning’s obligatory addition of an outgoing 2nd rounder to any trade as a “thank you for doing business with us”…..

Vancouver fans have said the same thing about every GM in Canucks history.

I've posted about this before... in a Gillis vs Benning trade history post.

Plus, I have a long memory...

As a matter of fact, I have noticed fans of other teams complaining about the same thing.

(whilst searching for info at that other site)

Ownership had no patience for the actual rebuild.

I'll give you that one.

In a full rebuild fans should be ready for 5-7 years of losing hockey, with a couple of those being nigh unmitigated disasters on ice. Then the window opens.

Right again.

And yet many Canuck fans were complaining bitterly about all the losing.

Vancouver fans are an impatient bunch.

There is no question that Benning is responsible for acquiring what is currently our core. However, after 8 years of (mostly) futility I am in no way convinced that the team would have turned into what we saw this season had Benning remained at the helm. Quite likely not.

First you say "futility" is a necessity in a rebuild... then you complain about it.

Typical Canuck fan.

And who knows what would have happened if Benning remained at the helm.

Speculation, your honour!

An 8 year “retool on the fly” is not anything that fans should expect to be patient with.

Now you admit impatience was a thing and make excuses for said impatience.

"Oh, oh, it's because it was not actually a rebuild!" (semantics)

... after admitting a new young core was (somehow, magically?) built.

Doc twists words and sentences so much it is nauseating.

Then he twists in the win when called out.

I find I'm reading his posts only slightly more often than I read Chef's. I'd say it would be dead even if it weren't for the fact that he's a mod.

You have always been a sore loser Mëds.

"He must have cheated somehow!" - Mëds (paraphrased)



Yeahno, I just sometimes use people's own words against them.

It's the best way (and most honourable way) to win a debate!

You should read my posts more often, your IQ could use the boost.

[Meds]

Doc twists words and sentences so much it is nauseating.

Then he twists in the win when called out.

I find I'm reading his posts only slightly more often than I read Chef's. I'd say it would be dead even if it weren't for the fact that he's a mod.

You have always been a sore loser Mëds.

"He must have cheated somehow!" - Mëds (paraphrased)



Yeahno, I just sometimes use people's own words against them.

It's the best way (and most honourable way) to win a debate!

You should read my posts more often, your IQ could use the boost.

But it's not winning a debate (I realize you think it is). Winning a debate is actually proving someone wrong and changing their view (or the view of others who also hold that opinion).

Twisting words is rather.....well.....political. Frankly I don't often see the point or want to take the time.

BUT!

Since I actually have a few minutes here this fine evening with the wife working nights and the kids back to their "school bedtime".....and since me and my old pal Strangelove actually haven't gone back and forth over much of anything for a spell......

Yes and no.

Fans didn’t get impatient with a rebuild. Fans got impatient with spinning wheels and questionable decisions. Some whiffed picks

Yes well there are "questionable decisions and whiffed picks" in every rebuild.

Trust me, Vancouver fans got impatient.

We were in a rebuild but being sold a retool.....had it been a scorched earth rebuild from the get go fans likely would have been more patient.....probably because the results would have started to come a bit earlier.

Also, we aren't talking about every rebuild, we are talking about this one.

2014 - Virtanen (Nylander, Ehlers, Fiala, Tuch, Pasta, Kempe.....to name a few)
2015 - Boeser (win.....finally this year, but still a win)
2016 - Juolevi (Tkachuk, Keller, Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, Thompson.....role through the 2nd round and your 2nd tier is also good. He originally had a pair of second rounders in that draft year but dealt them away. Go look the trades up, they sure were shrewd.)
2017 - Pettersson (good pick.....I still think he could be spent better in trade).
2018 - Well yeah.....
2019 - Podkolzin (Now in Edmonton)
2020 - JT Miller
2021 - OEL (Not terrible considering there wasn't much in that draft, however the cap management on that one ended up sucking)

I would talk about all the depth players he drafted in later rounds that the Canucks went on to develop out of an abundant pipeline, but I can't, because there are few, and he traded too many picks away at a time when you want to maximize your chances of striking gold. Placeholders and culture are important, sure, but you can find Gudbransons, Sutters, Boninos, etc., in free agency or as cap dumps where a you weaponize your cap space to fleece another team. That's too many whiffs in a rebuild, way too many in a quick retool.

and the lack of second round selections due to Benning’s obligatory addition of an outgoing 2nd rounder to any trade as a “thank you for doing business with us”…..

Vancouver fans have said the same thing about every GM in Canucks history.

I've posted about this before... in a Gillis vs Benning trade history post.

Plus, I have a long memory...

As a matter of fact, I have noticed fans of other teams complaining about the same thing.

(whilst searching for info at that other site)

Well I can't pretend to have your tenure as a Canucks fan. I started following the team in the late 80's and watched Quinn build it up into the 1994 team. We moved out of the lower mainland in the fall of 93, folks didn't get TV or internet, so I had to listen to most of the 94 run on the radio. After that I lost touch and circled back in my late teens. In terms of viewership I missed the Messier era, only catching the very tail end as the torch passed to Naslund. So I caught the tail of the rebuild into what became the WCE led Orca and have followed closely since.

I don't pay attention to other teams fans outside of getting opinions from a few friends who follow Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, and Montreal. In general they say the same thing we do.....do it right or don't waste our time. Most Flames fans I know are stoked at what is happening in Calgary right now. Their top 2 guys left town, management tried to right the ship, it didn't work (apparently plenty of fans didn't think it would), and 2 seasons later the team rips the band-aid off and goes scorched earth. Good plan.

Ownership had no patience for the actual rebuild.

I'll give you that one.

I'm almost surprised.

In a full rebuild fans should be ready for 5-7 years of losing hockey, with a couple of those being nigh unmitigated disasters on ice. Then the window opens.

Right again.

And yet many Canuck fans were complaining bitterly about all the losing.

Vancouver fans are an impatient bunch.

Two points on this.

1. The fans I know, and the reprobates at this here hockey talk message board, largely complained that the team was losing and their was no real end in sight because of the managerial catastrophe they were witnessing. It wasn't just the losing, we're calloused to that.

2. After 54 fucking years.....yeah, we are entitled to be a tad impatient when witnessing gross floundering incompetence.

There is no question that Benning is responsible for acquiring what is currently our core. However, after 8 years of (mostly) futility I am in no way convinced that the team would have turned into what we saw this season had Benning remained at the helm. Quite likely not.

First you say "futility" is a necessity in a rebuild... then you complain about it.

Typical Canuck fan.

And who knows what would have happened if Benning remained at the helm.

Speculation, your honour!

No. I said losing is necessary in a rebuild (well 99.9% of the time). It only becomes futile when there's no equal compensation for it.

Speculation? Well yeah, I said as much.

An 8 year “retool on the fly” is not anything that fans should expect to be patient with.

Now you admit impatience was a thing and make excuses for said impatience.

"Oh, oh, it's because it was not actually a rebuild!" (semantics)

... after admitting a new young core was (somehow, magically?) built.

Semantics? That's all you're about good buddy.

Twist. Twist. Twist.

[Hockey Widow]

And in other news, taken from somewhere on the web:


A positive sign for one of the top goaltenders in the game.

On Tuesday, Vancouver Canucks reporter Rick Dhaliwal mentioned that goaltender Thatcher Demko is back on the ice. He is currently skating and working out, and it is believed that he will be ready to go by the time training camp starts later this month. That was contrary to a report that Dhaliwal himself gave late last month.


Dhaliwal also mentioned that Arturs Silovs is heading to Vancouver from his home in Latvia to be looked at. It was reported last week that he has been dealing with knee inflammation, as he had to pull out of representing his country during Olympic qualification. Dhaliwal says Silovs’ ailment isn’t expected to be serious, and should be ready for training camp as well. Latvia still managed to punch their ticket to the 2026 men’s Winter Olympics tournament.

So maybe, maybe not.

[Raile]

So maybe, maybe not.

Wasn't Dhaliwal's original post something to the effect of "they aren't telling me he is going to be ready, so he must not be". lol that guy

[Strangelove]

* after losing debate, uses a lot of words but says nothing

What’s That Smell?

There once was a giant [mod edit],
In the armour of a major dink,
He never admitted,
When he was outwitted,
Oh fuck did he raise a stink!

[Blob Mckenzie]

The [mod edit] throat pumped the doctor.

Should have just said Elmer was a garbage GM and left it at that.

[BoS]

Demko skating, but not with the Krog run informal skate today. Silovs, Patera and Tolopilo all skated with a group of 17 players.

[Strangelove]

The BlobMeds Elmer Hate Club is still a thing after all these years, who woulda thunk it...

And Blob... learn about subtlety bro...

[Topper]

The BlobMeds Elmer Hate Club is still a thing after all these years, who woulda thunk it...

And Blob... learn about subtlety bro...

The mere measure of the previous administration triggers pages of mindless vitriol. It is hilarious.

Hopefully their pussy hats aren't knotted.

[rikster]

Expecting fans to be patient for a rebuild is like expecting to keep a New Years resolution, its not a matter of will you break it, its just a matter of when you open the container of ice cream....

Complaining about contracts given out during lottery pick years misses the debate which is how valuable to a bottom feeder team are older, character type players?

If you feel that they have value, then sign them for more $ and more term than you would like to because how else do you persuade a veteran to sign on a bad team?

No need to argue amongst ourselves, argue with GM's who have publicly come out against rebuilds...

Take care....

[Tciso]

[

Yeahno, I just sometimes use people's own words against them.

It's the best way (and most honourable way) to win a debate!

What we have here is a classic Master (de)bater!

[Meds]

Just about every single time Doc crows claiming he won a debate you can pretty much legitimately rebuttal him with "I know you are but what I am I?"

[Blob Mckenzie]

Expecting fans to be patient for a rebuild is like expecting to keep a New Years resolution, its not a matter of will you break it, its just a matter of when you open the container of ice cream....

Complaining about contracts given out during lottery pick years misses the debate which is how valuable to a bottom feeder team are older, character type players?

If you feel that they have value, then sign them for more $ and more term than you would like to because how else do you persuade a veteran to sign on a bad team?

No need to argue amongst ourselves, argue with GM's who have publicly come out against rebuilds...

Take care....

Yes scrubs like Loui Ericksson, Brandon Sutter, Antoine Roussel and Jay Beagle were so valuable to the club.