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Tciso wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 7:28 am My preference is Manny, with Foote retained on D. If Manny shits the bed, Foote gets his shot. I really hope we keep Foote in the organization. Our defense looks competent finally, and Foote is part of the reason.

Associate Coaches, perhaps?

Toc to Philly.

25M

Adam Foote gets the job.

Thoughts?

I like the continuity. The last thing we need is to flip back to an offense-minded coach (not saying that that's what Manny is) after Boudreau and then Tocchet, when we've built a stable of defenders that need to be developed, and which are key to playoff performance. Build from the net out.

On the flip side, I have no idea how he will deal with our offensive woes.

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 9:56 am Adam Foote gets the job.

Thoughts?

Not sure why, but I am very surprised by this. Defence seemed to get better with him as the assistant, so there is hope.

Seems like a little stabilily for a change. Maybe Foote will force more defensive responsibility, but how the offense operates next year will depend on any incoming personnel. Manny stays on the farm to keep that funnel going.

First positive move of the off-season.

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 9:43 am Toc to Philly.

25M

Money besides, I think Tocchet was going to Philly all along. Him interviewing with Seattle and elsewhere likely was equal parts due diligence on Tocchet's part and smoke-screen on Philly's.

If he wanted to be somewhere else, and I would put some money on this, whether Philly tampered with Tocchet before he was let go or not, best that they let him go.

Certainly hoping they bring in some seasoned vets for assistants. He is going to need help.

Zero professional HC experience is a bit of a red flag for me.

Lancer wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 10:34 am

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 9:43 am Toc to Philly.

25M

Money besides, I think Tocchet was going to Philly all along. Him interviewing with Seattle and elsewhere likely was equal parts due diligence on Tocchet's part and smoke-screen on Philly's.

If he wanted to be somewhere else, and I would put some money on this, whether Philly tampered with Tocchet before he was let go or not, best that they let him go.

I agree with this - and I wouldn't use the word tampering really. These guys are all friends, old boys club. Likely had some beers and talked about the "future." more than once.

Though if they had offered him the job prior (or discussed it in anyway) - certainly puts a better light the reason for the exit. Wasn't Petey, or Mgmt, or Ownership. Just a better opportunity closer to where he wants to be. Fair enough.

Cornuck wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 10:16 am Seems like a little stabilily for a change. Maybe Foote will force more defensive responsibility, but how the offense operates next year will depend on any incoming personnel. Manny stays on the farm to keep that funnel going.

First positive move of the off-season.

You look at it through the Quinn prism, and Foote made the most sense. Besides, I don't see him tweaking the structure much. At least we know the PK and blueline should do well with him behind the bench.

Now the question is who Foote and management bring in as assistants? I don't see Gonchar coming back, unless he continues as a sessional coach. Svejkovsky may not come back. As I've seen commented elsewhere, Foote is going to need a smart offensive 'x's and o's' assistant. Maybe an opportunity for one of the Twins?

As for Manny, if Foote's deal is three years, maybe that's enough for him to marinade in Abbottsford and then management can make a decision on him if he doesn't get plucked by another organization. I figured it was a bit of a risk hiring Manny after one season in Abbottsford. I think he has promise as an NHL coach, but he may benefit from more years being a head coach.

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 9:56 am Adam Foote gets the job.

Thoughts?

They asked my opinion and ran with my advise.

Lancer wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 10:34 am

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 9:43 am Toc to Philly.

25M

Money besides, I think Tocchet was going to Philly all along. Him interviewing with Seattle and elsewhere likely was equal parts due diligence on Tocchet's part and smoke-screen on Philly's.

If he wanted to be somewhere else, and I would put some money on this, whether Philly tampered with Tocchet before he was let go or not, best that they let him go.

He played parts of 11 seasons in Philly. It makes sense. Tockey hockey isn't Flyers hockey from that era, but there is an ethic that is a run through. If he wanted it badly and they had interest, it still makes sense for him to interview with Seattle, not as a smokescreen (though that's possible), but to show demand.

Lancer wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 10:45 am

Cornuck wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 10:16 am Seems like a little stabilily for a change. Maybe Foote will force more defensive responsibility, but how the offense operates next year will depend on any incoming personnel. Manny stays on the farm to keep that funnel going.

First positive move of the off-season.

You look at it through the Quinn prism, and Foote made the most sense. Besides, I don't see him tweaking the structure much. At least we know the PK and blueline should do well with him behind the bench.

Now the question is who Foote and management bring in as assistants? I don't see Gonchar coming back, unless he continues as a sessional coach. Svejkovsky may not come back. As I've seen commented elsewhere, Foote is going to need a smart offensive 'x's and o's' assistant. Maybe an opportunity for one of the Twins?

As for Manny, if Foote's deal is three years, maybe that's enough for him to marinade in Abbottsford and then management can make a decision on him if he doesn't get plucked by another organization. I figured it was a bit of a risk hiring Manny after one season in Abbottsford. I think he has promise as an NHL coach, but he may benefit from more years being a head coach.

Is Foote really any further behind on offensive x's and o's than Tocchet? Joking, but only kind of.

Really, though, offensive zone hockey is really light on x's and o's, and way more dependent on individuals reading and reacting. There are only so many "systems" for a coach outside the PP; mostly it is just broad ethics. Do you favor making havoc and throwing pucks and bodies at the net, or favor possession and looking for back doors. What's the tolerance for roving D, and what are the risk mitigation assignments when that happens. What's the forecheck.

More important to the offense from an x/o standpoint is probably the transition game. Tochett made the D-to-neutral zone a lot better than BB when he first started, then it declined, then it was on the uptick again with a shift in the defensive personnel. But you've got to have a philosophy. Tight puck support and short passes? Longer outlets to stationary neutral zone presence with back to the D to receive pass in a protected position and no speed but time to and hit third guy with speed, or prefer to be moving forward as unit. That kind of thing. The neutral zone to O zone transition was Tocchet's achilles from an x and o perspective. He was risk averse to neutral zone turnovers, preferring dumping and crashing whenever there was a doubt, north south style, every forward potentially F1 depending on where you were vs. the dump. Are you going to continue that, or are you going to deploy different strategies for zone entry that will result in more turnovers but more clean possession?

Point is, Foote doesn't need to be genius of x's and o's both because its not rocket science, and because (as you note) the detail guy can be hired. But he has to pick a direction and ethic. Create mistakes or prevent your own. Beat the opponent or not let them beat you. Good chaos or control. First chance or best chance.

I have no real opinion on whether Foote will do well. Only that I perceive that he was both respected and liked by the team and that in a year of disruption, that probably takes on an outsized role in the calculation as to who to hire. Probably management also saw him as the closest continuation of Tocchet, who they thought was not the problem.

Pry Glen Gulutzan away from the Oilers. Easy Peasy.

Foote, there it is.

I predicted it. Can't say one way or another if I like it (leaning toward yes). Really not sure could've done worse for the two-year revolving door job anyway. Manny can wait and grow in Abby until his shot comes next in 2027...should he last that long before somebody else scoops him up.