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Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:18 pm Jello - So every one else is to blame except the guys you like.

donlever wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 6:46 pm Not sure everyone gleaned intent of the OP here but que sera sera.

Also not sure why the conversation has to get pissy and personal.

Thought this was a solid idea for an off season thread and some good discussion took place which is kind of the point.

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:08 pm

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:18 pm Jello - So every one else is to blame except the guys you like.

Not sure I'm picking up what you're putting down here?

It's summer, maybe you have a bit more time and can expand on your usual succinct posting style to help us illiterates understand?

The Sedins endured a tumultuous coaching change with Torts, a poor choice in Clipboard, on and off ice drama with Gillis, Luongo, Kesler, Benning, Ericsson, Linden, Weisbrod, Aquilini, etc. How much weight falls on the leadership of 22 and 33 when Management has absolutely no clear game plan and brings in hopeless flakes like Hodgson, Kassian, Shinkaruk, McCann, Virtanen, Goldobin, Leipsic, Gaudette, Tryamkin, Juolevi etc for them to "mentor". How many of these guys are still in the NHL? McCann, after how many stops?

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 8:22 pm

JelloPuddingPop wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:08 pm

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:18 pm Jello - So every one else is to blame except the guys you like.

Not sure I'm picking up what you're putting down here?

It's summer, maybe you have a bit more time and can expand on your usual succinct posting style to help us illiterates understand?

You said

The Sedins endured a tumultuous coaching change with Torts, a poor choice in Clipboard, on and off ice drama with Gillis, Luongo, Kesler, Benning, Ericsson, Linden, Weisbrod, Aquilini, etc. How much weight falls on the leadership of 22 and 33 when Management has absolutely no clear game plan and brings in hopeless flakes like Hodgson, Kassian, Shinkaruk, McCann, Virtanen, Goldobin, Leipsic, Gaudette, Tryamkin, Juolevi etc for them to "mentor". How many of these guys are still in the NHL? McCann, after how many stops?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKIaS0lh-uo

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:51 pm Disagree, bad habits can be replaced through hard work and dedication. The will to so is what is required. That can be through leadership establishing acceptable minimum standards with consequences for not meeting expectations.

It is little different than raising children, and many of these coddled young athletes have operated in a bubble for so long they are very immature and child like when outside that bubble.

Be an example, set goals, layout the pathway forward and don't let them stray too far. An iron fist in a velvet glove.

Yes nature is a part of it, but so too is nurture.

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 8:41 pm Well if the shoe/sock fits...

Ok yeah Blades

Aaronp18 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 8:45 pm

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 2:51 pm Disagree, bad habits can be replaced through hard work and dedication. The will to so is what is required. That can be through leadership establishing acceptable minimum standards with consequences for not meeting expectations.

It is little different than raising children, and many of these coddled young athletes have operated in a bubble for so long they are very immature and child like when outside that bubble.

Be an example, set goals, layout the pathway forward and don't let them stray too far. An iron fist in a velvet glove.

Yes nature is a part of it, but so too is nurture.

We are really not disagreeing, rather refining a point!

I agree with much of what you said.

However, when raising children not all will become surgeons or lawyers or successful entrepreneurs. And that’s ok!

At the NHL level even to get drafted you are the <1% of the population to begin with. But even in that 1%ish the ones that can be further encouraged and refined can be identified IMO.

Some bad habits can be broken but they can also be an indication of a personality that may not be suitable for high calibre training. But this is where the professionals step in and help identify those that can be molded or refined and those that will never get the point.

Again, I think the Sedin’s are the type of people that can take the high end talent to the next level. Show them the difference between putting in the work and dedicating to focused hard work that will lead to better results. And I believe that why they are back with the organization!

Hockey Widow wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:16 pm

Mëds wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 1:04 pm I don't necessarily disagree. I don't think the Sedins could have made some of these guys better players. However, I also don't think the Sedins were great leaders. Certainly great example setters in terms of individual professional commitment, but despite their "legendary" competitiveness, I never saw them as leaders that alpha personalities would want to follow.

Iginla, Chara, Stevens, Lemieux, Clarke, Yzerman, Brind'Amour, Potvin, Pilote, Pronger (wore the C for one season when ANA won the Cup).....even (sorry again Corn) Messier.

None of those guys ever took shit from anyone, and they certainly didn't care about being politically correct when it came to winning. Guys got in line behind them and went to war for them. Even little guys like Yzerman were firecrackers who would never let themselves be someone's punching bag.....and their teammates wouldn't let them either.

I don't fault the Sedins for Horvat, Virtanen, Juo, etc. It isn't their job to assess a player and cut ties with a failure.

As development coaches? I haven't got much of an opinion at this point. I think this season will be very telling though in regards to Pettersson. Franlky if he doesn't bring it this year, then maybe you cut ties with him and re-evaluate if the Sedins are better suited for a different role as well.

By this logic one can assume that Hughes will turn out to be an awful captain.

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 8:41 pm Well if the shoe/sock fits...

Ok yeah Blades