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Island Nucklehead wrote: Some have called in a smear campaign, others character assassination.

Anyways, a lot of reaching there, Doc, even for your standards.

Boston fans on message boards were talking about this for at least a year before the Hamilton trade.

(easy to go back and check)

Where there's smoke there's fire, and the fact the Bruins traded a 22 year-old with that potential verifies it.

You are the one who is reaching Island Nucklehead.

Nothing new...

Island Nucklehead wrote: And Hiller was better than Miller last season.

Lemmee guess, your fancy stats are proof of that?

Island Nucklehead wrote: And Hiller was better than Miller last season.

In some respects.

But he won on 53% of the time.

His backup, Ramo, won 56% of the time.

And I mean, the Flames were lights out last year.....right?

(I'm only counting games in which they could respectively be handed the win or loss).

Island Nucklehead wrote:

RoyalDude wrote:Smear campaign? Did the cigarette smoking man make it all up? Wag the Dog? Seguin was hypnotized by the Great Reveen into becoming party central in bean town and sucking on the ice. Hats off to Seguin for turning his life around. It. It could have gone either way

Or maybe he was just being a 21-year old kid. And his stats (60 and 50-point pace) seem fine to me.

Uh, no

His game was severely in the pits that season due to his out of control behaviour post Stanley Cup win. Even his team-mates were desperately trying to reel him, but oh yeah, it's all a conspiracy. Oh sorry, he's 21, oh that's ok then. Party on!

Anyhow too bad for Boston, Seguin decides to grow up in Dallas after the shock of getting traded. A wake up call that worked this time.

RoyalDude wrote: Anyhow too bad for Boston, Seguin decides to grow up in Dallas after the shock of getting traded. A wake up call that worked this time.

He may have grown up a bit and has put up decent regular season numbers but call me when he leads the Stars to some playoff success.

In all seriousness this is all I care about anymore. Help get your team into the playoffs where it matters and then bring your best. It's my hope for the acquisitions Benning is making. You can pull advanced analytic stats outta your ass all day long but a simple smell test will tell you Sutter will contribute far more than Bonino in his career.

Stats are simply numbers, get your name engraved on the mug underneath Vancouver Canucks and that'll impress the fuck outta me.

Aaronp18 wrote: You can pull advanced analytic stats outta your ass all day long but a simple smell test will tell you Sutter will contribute far more than Bonino in his career.

Stats are simply numbers, get your name engraved on the mug underneath Vancouver Canucks and that'll impress the fuck outta me.

"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics." – Mark Twain

“Statistics are for losers” - Vince Lombardi

“Corsi is for losers” - Chris Neil

Everyone used to know that each statistic must be taken with a grain of salt.

They are just one set of tools at a GM's disposal.

But... sadly... they are the only thing many fans go by these days.

I call these fans: MORONS

Strangelove wrote: Lemmee guess, your fancy stats are proof of that?

Are GAA and Save % considered fancy stats these days?

Island Nucklehead wrote:

Strangelove wrote: Lemmee guess, your fancy stats are proof of that?

Are GAA and Save % considered fancy stats these days?

So because you are apparently a MORON who goes solely by a couple of certain stats (fancy or otherwise)

... is it fair to say you think Hiller has had a better career than Miller?

Because hey HILLER WINS in career totals in both those statistical categories....

RoyalDude wrote:

Island Nucklehead wrote:

RoyalDude wrote:Smear campaign? Did the cigarette smoking man make it all up? Wag the Dog? Seguin was hypnotized by the Great Reveen into becoming party central in bean town and sucking on the ice. Hats off to Seguin for turning his life around. It. It could have gone either way

Or maybe he was just being a 21-year old kid. And his stats (60 and 50-point pace) seem fine to me.

duh, no

His game was severely in the pits that season due to his out of control behaviour post Stanley Cup win. Even his team-mates were desperately trying to reel him, but oh yeah, it's all a conspiracy. Oh sorry, he's 21, oh that's ok then. Party on!

lol sure dude. Seguin only led Boston in points the season after they won the cup, as a 19 year old.

I can't help but notice the Bruins standing by Lucic after getting into a bar fight in Vancouver in 2013.

Any way you slice it both the Seguin and Hamilton trades were terrible for Boston. But hey, at least they didn't have to add a pick for the luxury of downgrading in talent like Benning did with Kassian.

Strangelove wrote: Everyone used to know that each statistic must be taken with a grain of salt.

They are just one set of tools at a GM's disposal.

Exactly! They are conveniently found and can be referenced easily to aide any argument. Which is why many fans love them as they can seemingly help argue their point.

They can somehow determine who has won a trade before a game is even played.

And value any player.

The value of an individual player is determined by how they fit within their team. Their ability to accept a role and help create a winning environment.

I keep going back to Sutter but the more I think about the move the more I like it. He knew his role in Pittsburgh, he knew he wasn't going to be one of the go to offensive players, he wanted to do what he could to help the team win. His role will be different here and I think he will still succeed because of what he did in Pittsburgh. It can't be easy playing behind Crosby and Malkin but he did it without complaint.

Is he a $4.5M player on the Penguins? No he's not!

Will he be with the Canucks? Only time will tell but my feeling is that he can and likely will be.

Island Nucklehead wrote: Any way you slice it both the Seguin and Hamilton trades were terrible for Boston.

How were they supposed to keep these guys?

Seguin makes $5.5 now, Dougie $5.75.

Who can they lose from their roster so they can fit their existing contracts under the cap?

You can draft perfectly, have amazing talent and a perfect team but you can't keep it together. You can't maintain a status quo. You are going to lose players if you have enough talent and skill. It's managing your assets, sometimes that means giving up the perceived best player in a trade for multiple cheaper assets that can fill different roles on your team.

The Bruins are trying to keep their character players and move guys that may be more talented but won't contribute the way they need them to. They can be great players on other teams but they wouldn't or can't have the same opportunity on the Bruins.

Aaronp18 wrote:

Island Nucklehead wrote: Any way you slice it both the Seguin and Hamilton trades were terrible for Boston.

How were they supposed to keep these guys?

Seguin makes $5.5 now, Dougie $5.75.

Who can they lose from their roster so they can fit their existing contracts under the cap?

Well they showed they were willing to move Lucic (and eat salary). They didn't need to take back Eriksson ($4.25), they might've been better off keeping Seguin instead of Krejci, who signed a $7.25M extension recently and was on a $5+M deal when they extended Seguin. They just signed Belesky to a $3.8M per deal, and they're still paying Kelly $3M and they extended McQuaid for $2.75M. They currently have nearly $4.7M in cap space.

And yeah, I agree with the premise. Good teams have a hard time holding onto all their good players. They don't tend to trade away their best young players for underwhelming returns. Instead of focusing a rebuild around Seguin and Hamilton (not a bad starting point), they're stuck with a bunch of unproven prospects and numerous long-term, big-money contracts to aging players (Krejci $7.25 til 35, Bergeron $6.875 til 37, Chara $6.9 til 41, Seidenberg $4M til 37).

Benning went out of his way to acquire players in that early-20's age group, calling it an organizational gap, something most people praised. The Bruins seem to have created their own.

Strangelove wrote:

Aaronp18 wrote: You can pull advanced analytic stats outta your ass all day long but a simple smell test will tell you Sutter will contribute far more than Bonino in his career.

Stats are simply numbers, get your name engraved on the mug underneath Vancouver Canucks and that'll impress the fuck outta me.

"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics." – Mark Twain

“Statistics are for losers” - Vince Lombardi

“Corsi is for losers” - Chris Neil

Everyone used to know that each statistic must be taken with a grain of salt.

They are just one set of tools at a GM's disposal.

But... sadly... they are the only thing many fans go by these days.

I call these fans: MORONS

Sooooo when Luca Sbisa is among the league worst in every single stat except rattling the boards every ten games people are morons for thinking he sucks . Cool ..... But then he fails any sane persons eye test if they are truly honest . So wtf are the clowns who keep excusing Benning for the horrible acquisition and even more horrible extension ? I call them fucking liars or trolls depending on the poster .

The Bruins lost Seguin, Hamilton and have little to show for it. Both are said to come with baggage. Similar to both Kanes. Bottom line, Benning favoured the Chicago approach in how they handled Kane in advocating keeping Seguin. The made for TV movie was all fluff. Players like Lucic loved Seguin. Boston top dogs have this model of what it is to be a Bruin. If you don't fit the mold you are gone. They made a mistake in trading Seguin. I need to see more of Hamilton to know if that was a mistake or not.

Are they just kids who will grow up? Seguin seems to have, E. Kane may have, P. Kane doesn't appear to have, too early to tell with Hamilton.

Island Nucklehead wrote: Well they showed they were willing to move Lucic (and eat salary). They didn't need to take back Eriksson ($4.25), they might've been better off keeping Seguin instead of Krejci, who signed a $7.25M extension recently and was on a $5+M deal when they extended Seguin. They just signed Belesky to a $3.8M per deal, and they're still paying Kelly $3M and they extended McQuaid for $2.75M. They currently have nearly $4.7M in cap space.

They have $4.7M in space but that's with 12 forwards and no backup.

The Bruins made a judgement call on Hamilton and Seguin, there's obviously something in their game or personality that they didn't like so they chose keep and even sign other players.

Much like trading away Kessel.

Yeah, keeping them would've meant moving other key players in their lineup. And I'm keeping guys that have a great attitude, fit well with their teammates and work hard 9 times out of 10.

These players may have decent careers on other teams but it seems as though the writing was on the wall for them in Boston.

Aaronp18 wrote:

Island Nucklehead wrote: Well they showed they were willing to move Lucic (and eat salary). They didn't need to take back Eriksson ($4.25), they might've been better off keeping Seguin instead of Krejci, who signed a $7.25M extension recently and was on a $5+M deal when they extended Seguin. They just signed Belesky to a $3.8M per deal, and they're still paying Kelly $3M and they extended McQuaid for $2.75M. They currently have nearly $4.7M in cap space.

They have $4.7M in space but that's with 12 forwards and no backup.

The Bruins made a judgement call on Hamilton and Seguin, there's obviously something in their game or personality that they didn't like so they chose keep and even sign other players.

Much like trading away Kessel.

Yeah, keeping them would've meant moving other key players in their lineup. And I'm keeping guys that have a great attitude, fit well with their teammates and work hard 9 times out of 10.

These players may have decent careers on other teams but it seems as though the writing was on the wall for them in Boston.

Stop making sense, it's too much for Island Nucklehead and BilBlob Baggins to comprehend. They are slow and need a little more time than most to come around.