The Rebuild...

[SKYO]

Do folks recall what the centre position was like a year ago with Sutter injured?

How was that FO% doing with Hank and Bo taking wrong side draws.

You need a RH center to take draws?


There are a number of faceoff specialists who won't cost $4.5 million a season.

Sutter does more than that I know, but i don't think he would be that big a loss.

Last year was more lack of dmen and guys like Bartkowsi playing lots of minutes than Sutter missing. In fact they have almost the exact number of points at the same point with Sutter playing a ton versus last year. They were crap this year when Edler and Tanev were out.

Take Sutter out and we are one injury away from avalanche territory, ffs we keep Sutter till we can find an upgrade without losing any of our top tier prospects, such as Boeser, Horvat and Juolevi.

Even then having a 6'3 - 40 point checking center who has speed is a superb 3rd line center, almost perfect for that role, who also can be a #2C when injuries occur.

Perfect world in 2 years.

Patrick
Horvat
Sutter

[Strangelove]

Sutter is #2 in icetime on your Vancouver Canucks.

He's the number one penalty-killer and tied for second in goals.

He leads the team in number of faceoffs and FOW% by a huge margin.

And he's only 27 years old.

Not sure what you two expose-Sutter guys are smoking but it ain't gunna happen.

Diehard, cap-floor is $54M.

[Diehard1]

Sutter is #2 in icetime on your Vancouver Canucks.

He's the number one penalty-killer and tied for second in goals.

He leads the team in number of faceoffs and FOW% by a huge margin.

And he's only 27 years old.

Not sure what you two expose-Sutter guys are smoking but it ain't gunna happen.

Diehard, cap-floor is $54M.

Thanks for the cap floor number, that was completely off the top of my head as I had read it somewhere a few months back. Will likely change next year but not by much I wouldn't think. Point remains that Vegas has to get there so can't take all young minimum contract guys.

Sutter is what he is - a decent 3rd line center. He shouldn't be untouchable regardless of what Benning seems to think. Sure he plays a lot of PK on a bad PK team (23rd right now), sure he's second in goals on a terrible scoring team and he also gets a ton of 1st unit PP time to pad those stats (4 of his 14 on the PP). He's a vanilla player - doesn't hit, plays with zero physicality, can get knocked off the puck given he's not heavy,not great defensively or offensively, he's average all around. That's not a knock, just that he's not what you insinuate in your post above - a top player. For me the choice is between him, Granlund and Hansen - don't forget that Granlund is tied in goals, 3 on the PP with much less PP time and over a couple of minutes less icetime per game. He's also 4 years younger and much cheaper so I would rather keep him. Hansen is just a better overall player, injuries this year aside (I'm also not penalizing Sutter for his injuries last year) so again I would keep him.

It really doesn't matter what I think though as the team won't agree with me and neither will plenty of fans. Sutter is here to stay while this management team are around.

[Meds]

Yeah, Sutter's value is hyper-inflated on this Canucks team simply because of how pathetic our forward grouping is in terms of skill depth. He was big minute eater in Pittsburgh, but a lot of that was PK because Malkin doesn't really do the shorthanded thing.....hell, Malkin doesn't really do the whole defensive thing. So Sutter got a ton of defensive deployments.

Sutter is a decent shooter though, and with the right opportunities and linemates he can be a 20 goal/35 point guy. That's great, it's nice to have that. But he is simply not worth $4+M per year on a talented team. Right now we are not a talented team, so the point is moot. But there is a reason that the Penguins were ready to deal him for Bonino despite Bones coming off of a sub par season. The Penguins knew his ask was going to be in that $4+M range and they weren't willing to commit that kind of money because as a contender they knew it was not a smart contract decision.

The problem with Sutter is that because of that overpayment, despite his modified NTC, he won't be an easy player to trade in the last few years of his deal. The expansion draft is the best chance we may have to rid ourselves of his contract. And who knows, Vegas might not even want him at that cap hit and term. I would expose him.

[Strangelove]

Sutter is #2 in icetime on your Vancouver Canucks.

He's the number one penalty-killer and tied for second in goals.

He leads the team in number of faceoffs and FOW% by a huge margin.

And he's only 27 years old.

Not sure what you two expose-Sutter guys are smoking but it ain't gunna happen.

Sutter is what he is - a decent 3rd line center.

Sutter has played top-6 minutes his entire career (other than his 50-game rookie season).

This includes 3 seasons in Carolina, 3 in Pittsburgh...

Sure he plays a lot of PK on a bad PK team (23rd right now)

Sutter was the #1 PK centre his last 2 seasons in Carolina + last 3 seasons in Pittsburgh.

(Pittsburgh PK was #5 in 2013-14... #3 in 2014-15)

Counting his time here in vancouver, that's 7 straight seasons.

, sure he's second in goals on a terrible scoring team and he also gets a ton of 1st unit PP time to pad those stats (4 of his 14 on the PP).

Sutter has been top-6 in EVEN STRENGTH goal-scoring pace every single season in his career.

(other than that 50-game rookie season)

,not great defensively

Sutter is an elite forward defensively.

or offensively

Sutter is an okay forward offensively.

It really doesn't matter what I think though as the team won't agree with me and neither will plenty of fans. .

Brandon Sutter is a foundational player.

And no I'm not just throwing Sutter a little because today is his birthday...

[lostinarink]

Do folks recall what the centre position was like a year ago with Sutter injured?

How was that FO% doing with Hank and Bo taking wrong side draws.

I case tonight was the reminder for those with short memories.

[Blob Mckenzie]

If Brandon Sutter is ANY teams 2nd best centre that team likely sucks ass. Sure he is a handy player and is right handed and decent in the face off circle but it doesn't make him a 2nd line centre now matter how much Benning or Twitch or Lumpy want it to be so. He's a handy player who gets a lot of minutes on the pk and gifted a shitpile on thepp for this garbage team. He is still not a legit 2nd line centre which is how he is being paid. He is a guy who would be a solid 7/8 forward on a good team.

And guess what: Henrik
Bo

Sorry Gulpers

[Strangelove]

If Brandon Sutter is ANY teams 2nd best centre that team likely sucks ass. Sure he is a handy player and is right handed and decent in the face off circle but it doesn't make him a 2nd line centre now matter how much Benning or Twitch or Lumpy want it to be so. He's a handy player who gets a lot of minutes on the pk and gifted a shitpile on thepp for this garbage team. He is still not a legit 2nd line centre which is how he is being paid. He is a guy who would be a solid 7/8 forward on a good team.

http://www.canuckscorner.com/forums/vie ... 69#p275769

(take your fingers out of your ears... we want to see how brown they are)

Also, 55th highest paid centre in the league, 11th highest centre icetime in the league...

[Blob Mckenzie]

Is he THIS teams second best centre ? A simple yes or no will do

[Diehard1]

If Brandon Sutter is ANY teams 2nd best centre that team likely sucks ass. Sure he is a handy player and is right handed and decent in the face off circle but it doesn't make him a 2nd line centre now matter how much Benning or Twitch or Lumpy want it to be so. He's a handy player who gets a lot of minutes on the pk and gifted a shitpile on thepp for this garbage team. He is still not a legit 2nd line centre which is how he is being paid. He is a guy who would be a solid 7/8 forward on a good team.

http://www.canuckscorner.com/forums/vie ... 69#p275769

(take your fingers out of your ears... we want to see how brown they are)

Also, 55th highest paid centre in the league, 11th highest centre icetime in the league...

All this is fair enough - I don't think Sutter sucks, just that if he goes it's not a big deal and he's replaceable. If he stays around I won't be angry as he plays his role decently well.

As for tonight's game - the Pens were in second gear and smashed the Nucks. It wasn't close and likely wouldn't have been even with Bo and Sutter. It just shows how big the gap is between a cup contender and this Nucks team. If they play low event trapping hockey they can play with most, but if they try to play uptempo their lack of talent really shines through.

Lots of work for management to do, hopefully they are up for it.

[SKYO]

Be a good look at whoever has the energy to see every team's 2nd and 3rd line centers to compare to Horvat and Sutter.

Be nice if Sutter had wingers like Artem Anisimov has...Panarin and Patrick Kane.

Should hope to tank to get #2 overall for Hischier or unload a bundle for Drouin or Tanev for Nylander, need those game breakers on the wing if we can't land a franchise center.

[Todd Bersnoozi]

I like Brandon Sutter. He's a solid 2-way centre and being a right shot is a big bonus. I'd rank him the 3rd best centre on our team (1C Hank, 2C BoHo). He might be a tad over-paid, but not much, especially if we bought up some UFA years. Sbisa is having a solid year, but I'd say Sutter is a more valuable commodity than Sbisa. There are a ton of left shot stay-at-home D men types out there, but there's not a lot of very good right shot two-way centres who can win faceoffs. The Pens had to move Sutter with Crosby and Malkin eating up most of the cap, they basically wanted Bonino cuz he was cheap.

[Todd Bersnoozi]

Canucks priorities:

#1) Big top 6 LW.
#2) Draft picks.
#3) Prospects with upside at all areas.

I think our biggest need currently is a sniper. I know getting a 40-50G guy is almost impossible, but I'd settle for a consistent 30G guy. Eriksson was supposed to be that guy, but he's more of a 2-way player (something we have an abundance of on our roster). I had hopes for Jake or Boeser to be that guy, but Jake is struggling to score in the minors and Boeser seems to have lost some steam after his injury. If that sniper has some grit and size, it'd be a huge bonus, but scoring ability is the huge need. Too bad, M.Tkachuk looks like he could be that guy, but we went for a different route.

We can really use 2 other types of players on our team as well. First a skilled centre who can put up points to take over Hank, maybe Bo is that guy, but I see him more as the 2nd C. Second a D-man who has a rocket point shot, a Sami Salo type. We tried Garrison and Y.Weber, but Garrison was not talented enuff offensively and Weber was too small and a liability on D. Edler has a decent point shot I guess, but he goes through long stretches where his O just disappears.

Overall, I like our depth in Goal with Markstrom and Demko coming. Our D looks good with a mix of big stay-at-home D-men and a couple potential offensive defenders, just missing a guy with a big shot. Our forwards need a boots the most, biggest need is top end skill and goal scoring ability.

[Chef Boi RD]

Canucks priorities:

#1) Big top 6 LW.
#2) Draft picks.
#3) Prospects with upside at all areas.

I think our biggest need currently is a sniper. I know getting a 40-50G guy is almost impossible, but I'd settle for a consistent 30G guy. Eriksson was supposed to be that guy, but he's more of a 2-way player (something we have an abundance of on our roster). I had hopes for Jake or Boeser to be that guy, but Jake is struggling to score in the minors and Boeser seems to have lost some steam after his injury. If that sniper has some grit and size, it'd be a huge bonus, but scoring ability is the huge need. Too bad, M.Tkachuk looks like he could be that guy, but we went for a different route.

We can really use 2 other types of players on our team as well. First a skilled centre who can put up points to take over Hank, maybe Bo is that guy, but I see him more as the 2nd C. Second a D-man who has a rocket point shot, a Sami Salo type. We tried Garrison and Y.Weber, but Garrison was not talented enuff offensively and Weber was too small and a liability on D. Edler has a decent point shot I guess, but he goes through long stretches where his O just disappears.

Overall, I like our depth in Goal with Markstrom and Demko coming. Our D looks good with a mix of big stay-at-home D-men and a couple potential offensive defenders, just missing a guy with a big shot. Our forwards need a boots the most, biggest need is top end skill and goal scoring ability.

Skilled centre is a priority. Canucks need high end skill, it will be a glaring weakness that will become extremely noticeable once the Sedins retire. We have winger, sniper shooter types coming in Boeser and Virtanen, not too mention we have 5 more years left of winger/sniper Eriksson. Again, everyone moaned about our defence going into the draft last year. Nobody expected Tryamkin and Stecher to do this well. The Canucks had already drafted two scoring wingers in the previous drafts. Drafting Juolevi and not drafting Tkachuk was the right play. Scoring wingers are the easiest position to acquire in. Centre, defence and goaltending, not so easy to acquire. Our D and Goaltending future is looking pretty good, plus we have two young scoring right wingers coming. Anyhow a playmaking, puck handling skill is what the Canucks sorely lack beyond the Sedins.

All that being said, would not complain if we took the sniper RW Owen Tippitt at the draft. Maybe we could make a move for Jost if the Avalanche draft one of the two centres - Patrick or Hischier. It's looking like the Av's are not getting what they want for Duschene and may be stuck with him. Hutton for Jost? How about Juolevi for Patrick?

[Mickey107]

We currently do not have, what I would consider, an elite scorer.
Horvat is the closest to that. I have seen him score in EVERY way, with the exception of dropping back to the point, and ripping a slapper.
Eriksson is not that right now.
The Sedins are no longer that.
There just is no one else that comes close to elite.
Don't expect Boeser to be that right away. The first thing he will find out at the NHL level is, "Holy shit, these guys hit hard".
Nothing on the farm either, zilch.
I admit to being an arrogant bugger so I'm officially demoting Virtanen from prospect to project!
As we all know, have to address this in the draft the best we can, but, that too will take time, so:
A transitional piece is needed NOW.
long the lines of Dueschene, Druoin, or some one that we know can score and falls in the 23-27 age range.
Do not get me wrong, I'm not suggesting retooling or putting a Band-Aid on a boo-boo, but the fans need something too, plus, wouldn't hurt the younger guys that will be playing next year to see another guy, just a little older, but not much older, scoring.