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Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:42 pm
by Strangelove
rikster wrote:RoyalDude wrote:Virtanen 5 goals 4 assists in 30 games. Ewwww... BUT apparently he is playing....maybe a little bit better.
Jake the flake
I decided to purchase an AHL Live Package of games to watch the kids and form my own opinion as to their progress..
After watching the first game, the 3 players who I thought would play in the NHL in the next few seasons were Virtanen, Cassels and McEneny...
That was a number of games ago, and since then I feel stronger about Virtanen's and McEneny's chances and still think Cassels will see the NHL maybe as soon as a game or two starting next season or the year after....
I'm not overly concerned about a players production at this point in their careers, I focus on their god given skill sets and my opinions are based on if I think they translate into the NHL game...
With Virtanen for me its obvious, he skates as good if not better than any other player I've seen watching the games and his power reminds me of an over ager going up against a 16 year old in junior hockey...
His lack of production I think is more due to the fact that the Comets are not a very skilled team and his teammates have a difficult time playing at the speed that Virtanen can...The result is Virtanen is forced to play a more static game, that won't be a problem at the NHL level....
Cassels is the player who surprised me the most, for all of the hand wringing in Nuck land over his struggles in the beginning, what I've seen is a player who Coach Green trusts in key situations and plays a very mature game....
He plays shut down minutes and takes key face-offs in the defensive zone...
McEney made some very subtle plays while watching him that first game that stood out for me and since then he has gone on a bit of a scoring streak....
While Subban got the All Star selection, I think McEney's game is far superior to his...
Take care...
Thank you ster, keep those reports coming!
Good news about Virtanen and Cassells!
I was hearing good things about McEneny earlier this season...
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:23 pm
by Tciso
Strangelove wrote:rikster wrote:
I decided to purchase an AHL Live Package of games to watch the kids and form my own opinion as to their progress..
After watching the first game, the 3 players who I thought would play in the NHL in the next few seasons were Virtanen, Cassels and McEneny...
That was a number of games ago, and since then I feel stronger about Virtanen's and McEneny's chances and still think Cassels will see the NHL maybe as soon as a game or two starting next season or the year after....
I'm not overly concerned about a players production at this point in their careers, I focus on their god given skill sets and my opinions are based on if I think they translate into the NHL game...
With Virtanen for me its obvious, he skates as good if not better than any other player I've seen watching the games and his power reminds me of an over ager going up against a 16 year old in junior hockey...
His lack of production I think is more due to the fact that the Comets are not a very skilled team and his teammates have a difficult time playing at the speed that Virtanen can...The result is Virtanen is forced to play a more static game, that won't be a problem at the NHL level....
Cassels is the player who surprised me the most, for all of the hand wringing in Nuck land over his struggles in the beginning, what I've seen is a player who Coach Green trusts in key situations and plays a very mature game....
He plays shut down minutes and takes key face-offs in the defensive zone...
McEney made some very subtle plays while watching him that first game that stood out for me and since then he has gone on a bit of a scoring streak....
While Subban got the All Star selection, I think McEney's game is far superior to his...
Take care...
Thank you ster, keep those reports coming!
Good news about Virtanen and Cassells!
I was hearing good things about McEneny earlier this season...
I hear that Jake is being taught how to play defense first by Green. I see him coming back next year on the 3rd line, and moving himself up to the 2nd or 1st on merit. Over-all, a good move on development. We don't need a power forward who is -30, We need a big 2 way player who is a positive +/-
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:47 pm
by Todd Bersnoozi
Tciso wrote:
I hear that Jake is being taught how to play defense first by Green. I see him coming back next year on the 3rd line, and moving himself up to the 2nd or 1st on merit. Over-all, a good move on development. We don't need a power forward who is -30, We need a big 2 way player who is a positive +/-
I dunno. Obviously we want our young players to be responsible defensively, but the thing is we already have a lot of 2-way types on the roster and in the system. What we really need is a sniper, a guy who can put the puck in the net consistently. Someone who is above average in the goal scoring dept. A top goal scorer can take alot of pressure off other guys, so everyone plays better or he can score that much needed goal in a tight game to help us get the win.
Scoring a measly 5 goals in 30+ games in the minor leagues is pretty sad. There was that time when he was sent to the World Jrs and he was supposed to be one of the leaders of the team, but he failed miserably. It's pretty troubling to look @ Jake's career stats thus far in whatever league he has been in. Even in juniors, he only really had one season where he really dominated and could be said to be a top scorer (his draft year). Honestly, if Jake was a top sniper and could score like a Laine, we and our mgmt wouldn't care if he stunk on the defensive end. I think I'd be more happy if he was ripping it up down there, but the coaches were saying that he's a prima dona and lazy defensively (Brett Hull type). While I'm not quite ready to give up on him just yet, I'm not exactly holding my breath for him to be a future key player for us either.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:09 am
by Mickey107
Ya, Todd, I tend to agree with you on this one. He should be ripping it up down there. Being encouraged to shoot, rush and fill the net!
And learning better defensive habits at the same time.
It's the minors. Should be able to do both.
If not, maybe it aint so great.
Is TG the right guy down there now?
Does he want to be there or in the NHL?
Sorry, somebody has to ask these questions.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:13 am
by Ronning's Ghost
Horvat finishes sixth out of 8 competitors in his skills competition event:
https://www.nhl.com/news/2017-nhl-all-s ... -286211474
Speed is one of the best things to have, but it is also one of the most vulnerable to age and injury.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:05 am
by SKYO
Todd Bersnoozi wrote:Tciso wrote:
I hear that Jake is being taught how to play defense first by Green. I see him coming back next year on the 3rd line, and moving himself up to the 2nd or 1st on merit. Over-all, a good move on development. We don't need a power forward who is -30, We need a big 2 way player who is a positive +/-
I dunno. Obviously we want our young players to be responsible defensively, but the thing is we already have a lot of 2-way types on the roster and in the system. What we really need is a sniper, a guy who can put the puck in the net consistently. Someone who is above average in the goal scoring dept. A top goal scorer can take alot of pressure off other guys, so everyone plays better or he can score that much needed goal in a tight game to help us get the win.
Scoring a measly 5 goals in 30+ games in the minor leagues is pretty sad.
While I'm not quite ready to give up on him just yet, I'm not exactly holding my breath for him to be a future key player for us either.
To play meaningful minutes in this league you have to play a two-way game first, if you want a guy whose cheating and watching the opposition scoring on you while hoping to get outlet pass all game, unless you are a Patrick Kane (which he obviously is not) what good are you?
Virtanen not controlling the game in the AHL is fine, goes to show he needs chemistry with linemates to flourish - and yes maybe he was right about staying on a line he's good on like playing with Baertschi and Horvat, that was a good line, but unfortunately JV had some bad habits...
And so Virtanen working on his defense, hustling hard every shift while playing a fast game in the AHL will ultimately help in the future once he gets those professional NHL attributes down on and off the ice, the points will come in time......That's called quality development for a young player who had some bad habits to break, like a rescue puppy ha.
Just remember he's the exact type of player we need on this team, power forwards take time, so maybe he won't be a Dustin Brown, but he certainly can hit like him! with thunderous checks, we just need him to be able to penalty kill along with being a force to reckon with and be able to play meaningful minutes.
If he loses his Evander Kane cockiness now, we'll be better for it in the long run, I really think he can be a 20 goal scorer at least, and be a beast up front once he grows some muscle.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:51 am
by Mickey107
So much glorification on how good the minors are for a young player to develop.
I guess you have to have been there to know, long term, it rarely happens that way!!!!!
If the parent team is stocked, like most, with NHL players, it can be a holding ground for your prospects.
The rest of the minor league team consists of journeyman players who are probably never going to have an NHL career. They get their moment of glory when there's an injury and they get to play in the bigs for a spell.
This is NOT baseball, which has 4 or 5 tiers of minor leagues. It is not the same at all.
What they are doing is keeping Jake out of Vancouver for whatever their reasons are but that's not necessarily the way it's portrayed. There is a company line for almost everything.
He just may not be a fit here like Baertschi wasn't in Calgary. It happens.
Before the shoulder injury and the knowledge of the reconstructive surgery needed, Jake was, by most, ranked 4th.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:53 am
by Chef Boi RD
Jakes biggest problem prior to Utica was his arrogance and enjoying his celebrity status too much since being drafted and not realizing how hard you have to work to stay in the league, which was the main reason his Calgary Hitmen teammates couldn't stand him. He just assumed that being drafted 6th overall meant that he was a guaranteed NHL star. He's never had to work hard his whole junior career just like Kassian and so like Kassian they have years of built up bad habits. Benning did make a comment on the radio not to long ago, regarding Virtanen as "a little naive"
It's going to take Jake a long while to mature out of his arrogance and ignorance. I sure hope he can. Utica and the tough love is the best thing for him right now. He needs to be there the whole year and even the start of next year. The worst thing that can happen for him this summer is for him to think, "Well, I've put my year in in the minors, I am now guaranteed a starting role with the Canucks this season". The kid's self entitlement is his biggest stumbling block. All this summer the fear needs to remain for him, in that the coaches and management need to constantly hammer it into his head "you are not guaranteed a role with the team next season, you will have to earn it on and OFF THE ICE."
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:25 pm
by Island Nucklehead
Bo getting some love in his first All-star game. Drawing Pavelski comparisons.
I'd take that.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:22 pm
by Mickey107
Island Nucklehead wrote:Bo getting some love in his first All-star game. Drawing Pavelski comparisons.
I'd take that.
He looks good. Glad he decided to pot one himself!
Johnny Hockey loves him.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:33 am
by Blob Mckenzie
Jake the Fake has 3 points in his last 20 games. Alex Tuch made his debut last night. He looks like we all hoped Virtanen would be. At what point is the kid a bust ? I'd love for him to be a player but he seems like he's getting worse , not better.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:45 am
by Tciso
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Jake the Fake has 3 points in his last 20 games. Alex Tuch made his debut last night. He looks like we all hoped Virtanen would be. At what point is the kid a bust ?.
Give him til he's 23 to make that decision. Unlike our small shrimps we turfed at 20-21, Jake has a frame that can play both finess, and grit. Be patient.
Also, Me thinks his shoulder is not 100%.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:52 am
by Blob Mckenzie
Oh absolutely they HAVE to be patient. He has little value right now and really why flip him for a 3rd or 4th round pick? He has size but doesn't seem to want to use it , so maybe the shoulder is fucked. Either way I'm getting tired of watching this butter soft, small dinky team. Dude and Lumpy love the small dinky guys.
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:58 am
by Ronning's Ghost
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Jake the Fake has 3 points in his last 20 games. Alex Tuch made his debut last night. He looks like we all hoped Virtanen would be. At what point is the kid a bust ? I'd love for him to be a player but he seems like he's getting worse , not better.
Great question. At what point is any draft pick a bust ? I'd say it's if they are not playing with the big club by the end of their entry-level contract. In the case of a top-ten pick, though, I'd say that, while not necessarily a bust, they are certainly a
disappointment if they are not top 6 / top 4 by the end of their entry-level contract.
(Horvat may still not be getting top 6 minutes, but I think most people agree that he is at least the second best centre on his team right now.)
Re: Canucks Young Guns
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:08 am
by Blob Mckenzie
Ronning's Ghost wrote:
(Horvat may still not be getting top 6 minutes, but I think most people agree that he is at least the second best centre on his team right now.)
Yeah apart from Elmer, Twitch, Ian Macintyre, Ben Kuzma and a few sheep on this board , I think most people feel Horvat is at least the second best centre on the team. It's funny when you hear those two guys interviewed they always make a point of referring to Bo as the third line centre and get agitated when someone disagrees with their viewpoint. It's almost as though they are being told what to say by management.