Just Not ready

[rikster]

Circling back to EV's.....

Yes, a good option for the future, but the cost to beef up our infrastructure to support it, as well as the current limitations, would suggest that it is not there yet and is nothing more than a marketing scheme right now because people are getting insanely rich off of it.

It’s not just a marketing ploy. One of the main direct benefits of EVs that is showing up across Europe is improved air quality in the cities. Sure, the 25% share of new car sales only translates to perhaps 10% of cars on the road, but there is a higher concentration of EVs in urban areas and fewer in rural areas. Thus many European cities already have seen particles and other pollutants drop by 15-20% and of course even more so in Norway, where EVs account for 98% of new car sales and more than 30% of cars on the road. And the same is happening in China, where EVs account for roughly 50% of new car sales, and plug in hybrids another 20%.

Also, sodium batteries are now beginning to compete with the currently dominating lithium ones.They use a lot less rare metals, so they are cheaper and don’t require as much mining. There are also various versions of solid state batteries being introduced. Not sure exactly what goes into them, but rest assured that the battery technology is changing almost as rapidly as compter performance used to.

And I don’t think hydrogen is the way to go. You waste a lot of energy producing it and transporting it, so it is far less efficient than battery EVs. And charging at home is so convenient, I doubt you can ever convince EV drivers to start going to the gas station again. Hysrogen might be the future of aviation though, as big long distance airplanes need such huge batteries that it’s not really feasible at this moment. Battery electric aircraft will probably only work for smaller planes travelling shorter distances. Like the ones going from Vancouver to,Victoria. But converting the bigger airplanes to hysrogen could be the future of air travel.

Back in the early 2000’s when I was first introduced to hybrid vehicles, the focus was getting to a zero emissions vehicle and the benefits to society that followed …the fuel and maintenance savings was the driver to get people to buy them…

This is an article from 2009 https://nationalpost.com/news/taking-th ... ndly-prius and was one of the few I’ve read that focused on not just the fuel and maintenance cost savings but extrapolated to the impact to our health and the health care system...

Back when Toyota made the decision to develop and put into production a hybrid vehicle, it was met with scepticism with GM laughing convinced that nobody would buy them and Toyota would never recapture their R&D costs...

Crazy to see how far the industry has come and where the future is going…

Its not just hybrid to electric to fuel cells, it’s also ground to air with the Japanese in particular spending significant R&D and registering patents on flying car technology…

Once the technology goes into mass production, cities like Vancouver will be able to alleviate their traffic congestion by moving some of it off the ground and into the air at a fraction of the cost it takes to build rapid transit…

Speaking of China, they have quietly become a dominant player in the auto industry: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202608/1369047.shtml

[Meds]

Once the technology goes into mass production, cities like Vancouver will be able to alleviate their traffic congestion by moving some of it off the ground and into the air at a fraction of the cost it takes to build rapid transit…

Speaking of China, they have quietly become a dominant player in the auto industry: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202608/1369047.shtml

Enter the regulations and supports that will be required for air transit in urban environments.

Enter the the cost of the vehicle itself, or obtaining the license to own and operate one.

While rapid transit is costly infrastructure to build and maintain, you are going to need a bulletproof vehicle design if you want to avoid the costs of accidents associated with operating them. As someone who see's what ground vehicle accidents looks like up close, yikes. Or talk to some of my coworkers who have responded to helicopter crashes. Put that in downtown Vancouver? Fuck no.

Even if you restricted their use to professional/commercial transit to limit the chances of "the idiot behind the wheel" up in the air, they would be easy targets for extremist activities, so now are you just creating more costs? Think about something the size of a Honda Civic falling from a height of 400-500 feet and detonating upon impact amidst streets full of pedestrian traffic. If you aren't implementing airport level security, then imagine that happening on a weekly basis.

[Per]

How will they charge the batteries on heavy equipment in remote sites?

In Sweden there is basically grid everywhere, or at least within reasonable distance.
If there is no grid you can always use solar or wind, depending on location.
Lots of EV owners install solar on their roof, add a battery in the garage and then basically charge their car for free.
You should be able to do the same for a mine or whatever you're doing at that remote site.

[rikster]

Once the technology goes into mass production, cities like Vancouver will be able to alleviate their traffic congestion by moving some of it off the ground and into the air at a fraction of the cost it takes to build rapid transit…

Speaking of China, they have quietly become a dominant player in the auto industry: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202608/1369047.shtml

Enter the regulations and supports that will be required for air transit in urban environments.

Enter the the cost of the vehicle itself, or obtaining the license to own and operate one.

While rapid transit is costly infrastructure to build and maintain, you are going to need a bulletproof vehicle design if you want to avoid the costs of accidents associated with operating them. As someone who see's what ground vehicle accidents looks like up close, yikes. Or talk to some of my coworkers who have responded to helicopter crashes. Put that in downtown Vancouver? Fuck no.

Even if you restricted their use to professional/commercial transit to limit the chances of "the idiot behind the wheel" up in the air, they would be easy targets for extremist activities, so now are you just creating more costs? Think about something the size of a Honda Civic falling from a height of 400-500 feet and detonating upon impact amidst streets full of pedestrian traffic. If you aren't implementing airport level security, then imagine that happening on a weekly basis.

Countries like Singapore have already begun building aerial corridors for eVTOL's to fly...

https://assets.ctfassets.net/vnrac6vfvr ... opilot.com

For your fellow EMS workers operating in congested cities, it will save lives...

Toyota announced in 2018 that they were moving away from being an automobile manufacturer to a mobility company and in 2025 launched phase 1 of their Woven City project which currently has 100 residents and is expected to grow to 300...

https://media.toyota.co.uk/toyota-woven ... opilot.com

Their flying car technology has gone into commerical production in a joint venture with Joby Aviation, a California based company...

With the globe burning up and extreme weather events getting more extreme every year, there is a global push to get to zero emmissions on our road ways and flying vehicles is one of the ways to achieve this goal...

[5thhorseman]

You can't get around the laws of physics. For short journeys eVTOLs will put a lot of energy toward lift and not have much cruising time so will always be much less efficient than ground vehicles.

The break-even point seems to be somewhere between 35 and 100 km.

So maybe there's a use case for long distance commute and critical services like ambulances.

[rikster]

You can't get around the laws of physics. For short journeys eVTOLs will put a lot of energy toward lift and not have much cruising time so will always be much less efficient than ground vehicles.

The break-even point seems to be somewhere between 35 and 100 km.

So maybe there's a use case for long distance commute and critical services like ambulances.

Don't think we'll see long term commutes anytime soon, this is a cut and paste discussing the timeline for introduction...

1. 2026–2028: First commercial air taxi routes
• Companies like Joby Aviation and Archer plan to carry paying passengers on short airport to city hops.
• FAA’s Innovate28 program aims for scheduled eVTOL service at one or more U.S. sites by 2028.
• China’s EHang already has autonomous sightseeing flights approved.
These won’t be “flying cars” you own—they’re more like quiet electric helicopters.

2. Early 2030s: Road legal hybrid flying cars
• The first true “drive + fly” vehicles will be hybrid eVTOLs that can drive to a vertiport, then lift off.
• This solves the last mile problem pure air taxis can’t.
• Regulatory certification for these vehicles typically takes 5–7 years once the design is frozen.
Expect limited pilot programs—think wealthy early adopters or specialized fleets.

3. Mid 2030s to 2040: Wider adoption & autonomy
• Morgan Stanley projects a $1.5 trillion market for autonomous personal aircraft by 2040.
• Autonomy will arrive gradually: stability assist → supervised autonomy → full autonomy.
• By 2040, hopping an air taxi could be as normal as calling an Uber—but only in major cities with vertiport networks

[Topper]

Women can't parallel park in 2D, how the hell do you expect them to do it in 3D?

[Meds]

For your fellow EMS workers operating in congested cities, it will save lives...

How exactly?

If you mean it will allow for rapid transport times for the critically ill/injured, then that is going to be the bare minimum of cases. Happy to discuss the logistical problems with that idea.

Also, see 5ths remarks about physics.

The number of people and amount of equipment required for EMS crews will make the power demands even higher.

[donlever]

Imagine the accidents in Richmond....allegedly

[Meds]

Imagine the accidents in Richmond....allegedly

And the flybys in Surrey…..reportedly.

[Tciso]

We used to complain about sub 200 km EV range, now we're complaining about sub 400 km range (in the cold). By the time we stop complaining manufacturing will be established in other countries.

Then, let's get a government that can actually get this shit done. Our esteemed leaders have been yapping about this like a bunch of drama teachers for the past 11 years, but they have done nothing (increasing taxes does not count as building cars).

China has proven that it can be done. Now, if we had the same tax structure and lack of environmental and work standards as China, I am sure we could produce EVs at a competetive price too.

[Tciso]

How will they charge the batteries on heavy equipment in remote sites?

In Sweden there is basically grid everywhere, or at least within reasonable distance.
If there is no grid you can always use solar or wind, depending on location.
Lots of EV owners install solar on their roof, add a battery in the garage and then basically charge their car for free.
You should be able to do the same for a mine or whatever you're doing at that remote site.

I know that most of the polulation lives in the South of Sweden. How is the coverage in the Northern areas? Like Boden or JokkMokk? Those areas seem to match most of Western Canada for population density, and remoteness. And, JokkMokk is just a cool town name too.

[Per]

How will they charge the batteries on heavy equipment in remote sites?

In Sweden there is basically grid everywhere, or at least within reasonable distance.
If there is no grid you can always use solar or wind, depending on location.
Lots of EV owners install solar on their roof, add a battery in the garage and then basically charge their car for free.
You should be able to do the same for a mine or whatever you're doing at that remote site.

I know that most of the polulation lives in the South of Sweden. How is the coverage in the Northern areas? Like Boden or JokkMokk? Those areas seem to match most of Western Canada for population density, and remoteness. And, JokkMokk is just a cool town name too.

I’ve never even thought about it. Electricity, water, telephony and broadband are more or less considered human rights. Wherever there is people, those things should be there. That’s what you have a government for. Now sure, if you climb a mountain top in the far north, there is probably no electricity there, but there will be in the nearest village. Some people build summer houses on islands that lack electricity and communal water, and then they have to provide it themselves. Sweden is the country with the highest number of islands in the world. It’d be near impossible and to costly to provide those services to all the uninhabited ones. Solar panels are very popular with that crowd, and if it’s just a summer house you need not worry about the dark months of winter.

[Per]

Btw, Jokkmokk is a Sami name. Jokk means river and mokk hill, so basically River Hill.
The Sami language is not Indoeuropean, so it’s completely different from Swedish, but does have similarities to Finnish.
They are not mutually intelligible though. Perhaps like English and French. You see that a lot of words are similar, but you don’t understand eachother unless you have learnt the other language.

The words for river and hill in Finnish would be joki and mäki, and if you combine it for a placename it would be Joenmäki.

[5thhorseman]

I think Tciso was asking about how well the northern areas were served by EV chargers.