We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

[5thhorseman]

I guess a Nobel is out of the question now.

[Chef Boi RD]

I guess a Nobel is out of the question now.

[5thhorseman]

So what is Trump's plan in Venezuela?

1. Allow Machado to be President in exchange for her Nobel Prize?

2. Install a shadow government to collect protection payments in exchange for allowing tankers to transit to and from the country.

3. Install a provisional government ala Iraq and make a total mess of it. Oil companies refuse to invest in an unstable environment.

4. He's really trying to stop the drug trade so he will just leave now. Job done.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Given that there appeared to be some sort of agreement made with the PRC the day before this I thinks fair to say they wanted to get this done before there were Chinese military units set up in country

[Tciso]

There are a long list of reasons. Some valid. Some not so much. Some are valid from a western democracy standpoint. Some are not.

The list includes
Remove an illegal dictator.
Restore peace and democracy
Stop a military build up in the heart of the Americas
Reduce inflow of drugs from Venezuela and Columbia
Keep China and Russia out.
Stop Venezuelan oil from funding other dictators
Enforce some international and UN laws, (while ignoring others.)
Stop or reduce illegal oil shipments in unsafe tankers
Make Venezuela safe for the 8 million refugees to return.

Maduro had to go, but, I don't really know what the "right" way to do it was. The Right says its a good thing. The left says it is bad. But, I have not heard a Venezuelan refugee or citizen say it was bad. Overwhelmingly, the people of Venezuela are happy he is gone.

[donlever]

Lots of photos on socialz of a happy celebrating populous.

We will see where they are in a few weeks I suppose...

Screenshot_20260103-140154_Instagram.jpg (149.87 KiB) Viewed 86 times

[5thhorseman]

Donny, I believe those celebrations are largely outside of Venezuela. Inside the country people are more worried about what is going to happen next. They're staying inside and stocking up on groceries like it's covid.

Trump is obviously only after the oil and doesn't care at all about restoring democracy, given that he said Machado doesn't have the support of the people.

[donlever]

Yep...fair enough 5th.....I take it all with a grain of salt (socialz shit) anyway....

...must be terrifying for some families (although I suppose it has arguably been that way for some time)..

...I have a couple of Venezuelan employees who I reached out to yesterday in commiseration as they have families there.

Topper sent me an interesting and eye opening synopsis on Maduro yesterday.

I wish he would post it here as it would surely generate some good discussion and debate.

[5thhorseman]

The list includes
Remove an illegal dictator.
Restore peace and democracy
Stop a military build up in the heart of the Americas
Reduce inflow of drugs from Venezuela and Columbia
Keep China and Russia out.
Stop Venezuelan oil from funding other dictators
Enforce some international and UN laws, (while ignoring others.)
Stop or reduce illegal oil shipments in unsafe tankers
Make Venezuela safe for the 8 million refugees to return.

All of these are invalid inasmuch as they involve violating another country's sovereignty. Sure we'd all like to see Maduro gone but ends do not justify the means. Especially when this is not what the US is actually there to achieve. They are there to control the oil.

[Tciso]

Dumb question, but, who is going to stop them? Yes, this is a bully response. But, we created the League of Nations, and then the UN to deal with stuff like this. And then the UN has since then been less than useless.

I am not justifying Trump's actions with "everybody else is doing it", but, almost every other major power has done similar shit. It is internationally condemned, yet tolerated. Any one who believes we have international laws if fooling themselves. Russia and China don't play by any set of rules. And, Trump uses the same set of no rules.

Regardless, there is 1 less shithead in power, and 1 less country applying to the Russia/China/North Korea/Iran club.

[donlever]

As an aside and speaking of China, North Korea and Russia I was reading the other day of Japan's ongoing and continued increase in defense/military spending into fiscal 2026...

[Topper]

Don't be fucking naive.

Who was producing and exporting oil before Chavez nationalized the industry?

Who lost control of gold mining asserts when they were nationalized by Chavez?

Who lost procession of other natural resource developments when they were nationalized by Chavez?

Who has run those industries into the ground by ignoring maintainable and upgrades so that they now barely function?

Who cannot provide access to the simple necessities of life to the population, food and clean water, let alone a reliable electric grid?

Social idealism of respecting UN and idealistic protocols have done fuck all for Venezuelans for the past 25 years.

As DOA likes to say,

Talk - Action = 0

Venezuela isn't about to become an idyllic paradise now that it is free of Maduro and is in for a long haul of recovery. Hopefully on the path of the better Eastern European states but who knows. The military needs to be rebuilt, the civil service needs to be rebuilt.

The entire value system of being loyal to productivity instead of being loyal to a dictatorial power needs to change.

All eyes on the Straight of Hormuz

[5thhorseman]

Regime change is just as idealistic Topper. When has it ever worked?

If there's a case for a humanitarian mission, then it should be the UN going in, not an imperialistic USA. Do you really think Trump cares about or is going to do anything for the people of Venezuela?

[Topper]

One of the most laughable pathetic attempts at trolling this site has ever seen.

[5thhorseman]

I'm serious Topper. Yeah okay the UN is not an effective force but it's unacceptable for the US to do this on its own. Too prone to abuse.