2024 Offseason - moving forward

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderators: donlever, Referees

User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5406
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Meds »

Ronning's Ghost wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:19 pm With the post-season injury reports out, and a better look at the teams in the 3rd round, and what level of hockey it takes to succeed there, I don't think this core is good enough, even if Allvin is able to put together a first tier supporting cast.

That is not to say that the talent isn't there, necessarily, because some of them are young enough that we can still hope for continued improvement, but we need to see peak Pettersson and peak Hughes some time before the end of peak Demko and peak Miller, and it needs to be better than what we saw this playoffs, or there just won't be enough, unless they get seriously lucky at the drafting table.

This was my fear with the way the team was built all along, and it looks to me so far like that's the way it's playing out. I acknowledge that the story on this core isn't written until Miller's play drops off with advancing age (assuming that, as the oldest, he is the first to decline), and that age-related decay is highly variable, but the window is shorter than I would have hoped.

So how does such an assessment guide the path forward? Barring some luck -- a couple of recent draft picks seriously outperform their draft projections, the Canucks come out way ahead in a big trade, a few players sign team-friendly contracts for their own reasons -- this organization doesn't have the depth of talent to make it over the top without mortgaging the future a bit. Maybe no modern organization has; I don't follow the moves that other teams make. And I suppose they have to shoot their shot, as a matter of fan expectation if nothing else. So there will be some draft picks foregone, and some contracts that probably won't age well. If they win the Grail, great ! Few of us expect an dynasty, and most wouldn't care what happened in the next few seasons as they paid the long-term cost. But I think that effort to get all the way there should have a short leash, and if they don't make it soon, rather than trying to extend a not a not very wide or long window, they should switch back to asset-recovery and rebuilding sooner rather than later.

Of course, I have seen nothing to indicate that the current ownership group would be OK with such an approach.
Good post RG. My opinion of Pettersson is no secret, and what we saw this season and post-season, as well as some hindsight has me agreeing.

The retool on the fly plan that became Benning Built (sorry Donny) meant that we did not acquire enough impactful top 6/top 4 players in similar age ranges that matured at times to give the team a competitive shot on the back of some lower cap hits. Hindsight would suggest that Blobcat was right, you need to accumulate picks and prospects for 2-3 years if you want more than a short window. He burned as many as he acquired. This means we have a short window with the current core as is.

On said core.....

I don't see Pettersson being a top-line pivot who can put a team on his shoulders, this is particularly true in the playoffs. He had an outstanding season last year, and then was looking to repeat this year up until the halfway point, his play faltered, then pressure mounted to sign an extension, it got done, and he just continued to decline into the playoffs where our (soon-to-be) $11.6M star center produced 1 goal in 13 games. Then the injury reveal. Now, you either disbelieve the injury report and see the player for what (imho) he is or you believe it and see a massive failing on the part of coaching/management/medical. I'm inclined to call bullshit. As a player, Tocchet was a warrior in both the regular season and playoffs. He knows the value of being injury free come R1/G1 outstrips the importance of a division title and home ice advantage, especially when it comes to the players you are going to have to lean on for a playoff run. Rutherford helped build the Hurricanes team that won the Cup and then was at the helm when Pittsburgh won back-to-back Cups in 2016/2017, he also would know the impact that injuries to key guys have in the playoffs. I just cannot see them resting deciding not to rest Pettersson. The comment was made at one point that Demko could have played sooner if the playoffs were in jeopardy, they were willing to play it safe with Thatcher, so why not with Petey? You've got Cup winners running the show here, they know better. I don't buy the cover story.

To that end I think the smart play is to flip Pettersson for a player like Nick Schmaltz. He would come with an attached draft pick, likely a 1st rounder which JR/PA should be asking be deferred to at least 2027. You then go after a guy like Tom Wilson, and either re-sign Lindholm, or maybe try to entice Stamkos over on a 2 year deal. You push the chips in and try to win in a 2 year window (Thatcher's remaining contract), then hope that in year 3 you have a cheaper option in net (maybe Silovs) and get one last crack at things. At this point Hughes is turning 28 and needing a new contract. Give him 8 years and move pieces and draft like the world ends tomorrow for 2027 and 2028, reopen the window (a longer one now) with Hughes still running the back end for the last half of his deal. The important thing is to carry the new culture of accountability and buy-in forward through the process.
Somewhere in NW BC trying (yet again) to trade a(nother) Swede…..
User avatar
Strangelove
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 15909
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: Someday

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Strangelove »

I'm sorry, but Pete and Tocc are not going to lie about Pete having tendonitis.

It's extremely unlikely they'd trade him, but if they get fair value, hey I'm good.

Also I don't get the angst about extending Hughes considering the fact he's signed for 3 more seasons

... and by then the cap will be over $100M.

Top goalies, top pairing defensemen, and top 6 centres are the most difficult to acquire and we have those.

We need top 6 wingers, which are comparably easy to acquire.

We are in good shape heading into Trading/UFA season and there is no choice but to "go for it" at this point.

We've done the hard work...

Image
____
Try to focus on someday.
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5406
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Meds »

Strangelove wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:41 am I'm sorry, but Pete and Tocc are not going to lie about Pete having tendonitis.

It's extremely unlikely they'd trade him, but if they get fair value, hey I'm good.

Also I don't get the angst about extending Hughes considering the fact he's signed for 3 more seasons

... and by then the cap will be over $100M.

Top goalies, top pairing defensemen, and top 6 centres are the most difficult to acquire and we have those.

We need top 6 wingers, which are comparably easy to acquire.

We are in good shape heading into Trading/UFA season and there is no choice but to "go for it" at this point.

We've done the hard work...

Image
Where’s this alleged angst about extending Hughes?
Somewhere in NW BC trying (yet again) to trade a(nother) Swede…..
User avatar
donlever
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 5970
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by donlever »

Strangelove wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:41 am I'm sorry, but Pete and Tocc are not going to lie about Pete having tendonitis.
Agreed, the continued play including the last game remains somewhat of an oddity however. A little load management may have been prudent.

Unless FA is mucking about still/again.
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:41 am It's extremely unlikely they'd trade him, but if they get fair value, hey I'm good.
Agreed, but if I am JR I am exploring the potential to move him for a haul for various reasons not the least of which is the Poutersson angle.
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:41 am Also I don't get the angst about extending Hughes considering the fact he's signed for 3 more seasons....cap @ 100m
Agreed, this lines up very nicely for us.
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:41 am Top goalies, top pairing defensemen, and top 6 centres are the most difficult to acquire and we have those.
Very deft and delicately put, well played.
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:41 am We need top 6 wingers, which are comparably easy to acquire.

We are in good shape heading into Trading/UFA season and there is no choice but to "go for it" at this point.

We've done the hard work...
Agreed.

If I could move Hronek for Necas and Petey for a haul and sign Lindstrom I would still look to move Brock.
DeLevering since 1999.
User avatar
Strangelove
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 15909
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: Someday

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Strangelove »

Donny, I'll bet every GM has conversations over the summers involving every single player.

Yeah, lots of talking.

But a trade of the magnitude of which we speak is, as you've already agreed, extremely rare.

Artists tend to be moody and there is a fine line between genius and insanity.

I see Petey as an artistic genius more than an a moody nut. :D

I believe in him, but I admit I can be overly optimistic at times.
____
Try to focus on someday.
User avatar
Strangelove
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 15909
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: Someday

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Strangelove »

Mëds wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:53 am Where’s this alleged angst about extending Hughes?
Well a few posters have displayed said angst of late.
____
Try to focus on someday.
User avatar
donlever
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 5970
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by donlever »

Strangelove wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:10 pm Donny, I'll bet every GM has conversations over the summers involving every single player.
Sure, we've batted this back and forth innumerable times previously at this GDHTMB.

If they're not they are failing their mandate.

100%
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:10 pm Artists tend to be moody and there is a fine line between genius and insanity.
...ok, this legit cracked me up.
DeLevering since 1999.
User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Hockey Widow »

Still think they should have put Pettersson on LTIR and used that cap to add to the offence. Allvin said he had some deals he could have made to help the top six but he couldn't make cap room. Maybe it's a blessing because it would have cost us more assets to acquire. But when you look at how close we came to beating Edmonton you can imagine how a healthy Pettersson and another top 6 or two would have made a big difference. Dont know if it would have been enough though.
The only HW the Canucks need
User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Hockey Widow »

https://canucksarmy.com/news/seravalli- ... jured-knee


Well this doesn't look good, if true. Pettersson not telling the team about his knee. Pettersson never seeing a doctor about his knee. Team not thinking he has a serious problem needing rest because he never told them. Team surprised to hear his presser blaming, in part, his down play on a knee injury.

Well if true was he hiding it to get that big contract? Hiding it because he is stupid? Hiding it because???????

Or is he someone who cannot play through a boo.
The only HW the Canucks need
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5406
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Meds »

Unreal.

Just trade him already.
Somewhere in NW BC trying (yet again) to trade a(nother) Swede…..
User avatar
Strangelove
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 15909
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: Someday

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Strangelove »

Wait, didn't Seravalli reveal himself as sith last week?
____
Try to focus on someday.
User avatar
Cornuck
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 5789
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Everywhere

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Cornuck »

I read that the other day, and it really seemed like clickbait bullshit to me, based on what his agent ACTUALLY said.
“Some of the injuries that these players have, I mean, they know about them with the training staff, but they’re not enough to get to the level of seeing a doctor every day,” said J.P. Barry on Donnie & Dhali yesterday.

“I know he was seen prior to the playoffs but I don’t think he felt at any time during the playoffs that it was going to keep him out of the lineup.”
User avatar
donlever
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 5970
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by donlever »

.......thank the Hockey Gods it didn't keep him out of the lineup.
DeLevering since 1999.
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5406
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Meds »

donlever wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 3:12 pm .......thank the Hockey Gods it didn't keep him out of the lineup.
😂😂😂
Somewhere in NW BC trying (yet again) to trade a(nother) Swede…..
User avatar
Cousin Strawberry
MVP
MVP
Posts: 9267
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

This doesn't look good in any way, shape or form.

It's either negligence on the part of the team/medical staff or he's trying weasel out of taking responsibility for being ill prepared for battle.

Either scenario is shit
If you need air...call it in
Post Reply