US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond

[5thhorseman]

So you want to call it malarkey but not have to back up your words.

You're disengaging from the topic again.

Honest question here 5th, and I'd appreciate an honest answer.

Do you actually believe the things you say, or are you simply playing devil's advocate for the sake of conversation?

Why would I not believe the things I'm saying? I've given rational explanations for them. And these are mainstream views not something from the lunatic fringe.

[Meds]

No, it's not needed. Election fraud due to in-person voter impersonation is incredibly rare. There is no problem to solve.

So photo ID just ends up disenfranchising minorities and the poor. Politicians deliberately use this fake issue to get an edge in elections.

Why does it disenfranchise them? Why can they not get photo ID?

It's not that it's impossible, there's just a lot of barriers, many related to poverty.
- they don't drive and have never needed a driver's licence.
- they are missing underlying documents such as a birth certificate, lost in a move or due to temporary homelessness
- the cost of replacement documents, transportation, or time off work can be a barrier, even if the ID itself is free
- elderly people, people with disabilities, or those living in remote areas may have difficulty getting to an issuing office.
- people who have recently moved, experienced homelessness, or changed their name may have trouble obtaining or updating ID
- rural and Native Americans born at home or on reservations and tribal lands lack paperwork

I think it's hard for us Canadians to appreciate this since it's so normal for us to have photo Id, but in the US, 18% of all citizens over the age of 65, 16% of Latino voters, 25% of Black voters, and 15% of low-income Americans lack acceptable photo ID. There's a lot of Americans living hand to mouth and it's just not worth it to them to go through the trouble and expense of getting a photo id just to vote.

I didn't realize that obtaining an ID there was so difficult. I don't for a second think that there should be barriers to obtaining government accepted ID, it should be a state responsibility to make it available, it should be a parent, and later individual's, responsibility to go get it and keep track of it.

The bold italics.....perhaps rephrase it, because while it might be challenging for some of the examples you list, it is not impossible. It may be mildly time consuming, and there may be a few hoops to jump through, but the actual cost is not prohibitive at all.

AI responded to my query regarding where the greatest populations of ID-less individuals reside in the US with California and Texas as the leaders.....mostly based just on total population. It also pointed out Indiana and Georgia as examples of states with strict ID laws that have 6-figure populations of people without ID.

In terms of costs, in Cali a regular ID card costs $40, for seniors it's free, and for those needing assistance they can get a reduced-fee card for $11.

In Texas it is $16 for average folks, it's reduced or free for seniors, disabled vets can qualify for a freebie, and replacements cost $11.

In Indiana, a standard or REAL ID-compliant state identification card in Indiana costs $9.00 for an initial, renewal, amended, or replacement card. However, the ID is free if you are at least 18 years old, a U.S. citizen, and eligible to vote.

Looking at Georgia.....a standard ID (8-Year) is $32 when applying or renewing in person. If you have a disability it is $5. A Voter ID: FREE if you are a registered voter, do not possess a driver's license or other valid photo ID, and need it solely for voting purposes. This can be obtained at any Georgia DDS office.

So the question is: if they don't think it's worth it, why is that on anyone but them?

[rats19]

Ok here’s the elephant in my room…

Are these the votes that would cancel out a hard working tax paying I D voters vote… are these the voters you want voting? If you can’t get identification you probably shouldn’t have a say in how or who is elected.

Homeless tweaker cancels my vote….

[Topper]

The Save America Act voter ID requirement only affects those looking to get on the voters list, not those already on it.

36 US States already require ID to vote.

Have a look at what we in Canada need to vote Federally and look at Option 2 with the list of acceptable ID

https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?s ... dex&lang=e

Aboriginals have even a less onerous proof of ID, they only need a Status Card. Some Status Cards do not have a photo. and there has been a case of an aboriginal with a Canadian Status Card having voted in multiple Canadian elections despite living in the US making him ineligible. He was only caught out because another voter saw him at the poling station and pointed it out to the staff.

There are also charitable groups, often churches, that are allowed by Elections Canada, to use their address to register the homeless.

It is not difficult to get ID in the US and is insulting to to the intelligence to say otherwise.

If someone is too stupid to get on the voters list, do you really want them participating?

If it is not a priority for 5ths disadvantaged, even if his numbers are correct, to obtain ID to vote, what is their personal interest level in voting? Not the partisan organisation making them vote, but their personal interest.

[donlever]

Gonna be tough for the "ID less" NY group 5th notates to get the cheap food which is kind of the point of the cheap food no.

[5thhorseman]

Are these the votes that would cancel out a hard working tax paying I D voters vote… are these the voters you want voting?

If someone is too stupid to get on the voters list, do you really want them participating?

These are the attitudes that help marginalise these groups and underpinned voter suppression for many decades. Do you really think your intelligence or your hard work makes your vote more important?

[5thhorseman]

... and it's just not worth it to them to go through the trouble and expense of getting a photo id just to vote.

The bold italics.....perhaps rephrase it, because while it might be challenging for some of the examples you list, it is not impossible. It may be mildly time consuming, and there may be a few hoops to jump through, but the actual cost is not prohibitive at all.

Agreed it's not impossible but what the stats show is a large segment of the population still does not have photo ID, so I don't think you can assume it's mildly time-consuming. I did minimal research for my post so I'm probably just scratching the surface of the barriers that are there.

So why not enable them to vote? Especially since it does nothing to harm election integrity. Why does everyone have such a hard-on for photo ID which has virtually no benefit?