Time to Change the Oil.

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

User avatar
Island Nucklehead
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1219
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Island Nucklehead »

RoyalDude wrote:Wow are the Oilers really bad. They get smoked by one of the shittier teams in the league in their own barn - the Coyotes. A team who the previous night got about shit canned by the Canucks.

There is only one person to blame now - Katz. To allow this to go on and on and on and not clean house of the people who put the team together is strange. Only one explanation for this - Katz has a gay man crush on Kevin Lowe.
I think he's (correctly) deduced that, once again, the Oilers are finished by the Christmas break. So there's really no rush to clean house, McEichel is firmly in their sights now.

What I would be worried about, as an Oilers fan, is if MacT decided to start making more "bold moves".

Katz should fire Lowe, let Bob Nicholson take over, and begin the process of quietly looking for a new management group. MacT is a dead man walking in that GM chair, IMO, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they told him to sit on his hands and not make any moves while they "evaluate" his future with the franchise.

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why they insist on bringing in fresh, young, inexperienced faces to run things there. It's an extremely young team. Why not go out and get a veteran coach like Jacques Martin or Dan Bylsma? Instead its fire the goalie coach, hire the Oil Kings goalie coach. Fire the Head Coach, hire the farm teams' head coach. I suspect it has something to do with their staff budget.

Speaking of that budget, if the Oilers are committed to changing things around and bringing in some veteran faces to support their young core, they're now going to have to do it via trade. They've got about $17M in cap opening up in the offseason, and 8 roster spots to fill. Schutlz and Yakupov need new deals. Won't leave a lot of room to overpay for impact free agents. They should be dangling Eberle+ in a deal for someone like Ryan Callahan or Brandon Dubinsky. Someone that actually displays some leadership could go a long way to teaching these brats how to win a few hockey games.
Boston Canucker
CC Veteran
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:30 am

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Boston Canucker »

Like we need more evidence of the stupidity of the Oilers' org, they are now considering sending Draisaitl back to junior if his rights get traded to Kelowna. This Oilers' team, that keeps throwing young players into the NHL grind, with no serious veteran support, then watches them wilt and not able to handle the pressure, throws Draisaitl into the exact same situation, burns a year on his ELC, and then realize, oh, maybe that wasn't the best thing to do even thought we keep doing the same thing every, but we'll wait to see if his rights get traded to Kelowna because 1) the Oilers org has connections to the Rockets, uh, okay, and 2) he'd play playoff hockey there. It seems like the kid should be in Junior regardless, give him a freaking break from this losing culture. This organization is ruining their young talent... insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1972
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Meds »

I'm tellin' ya, the Coilers need to target Ottawa with Eberle.

Anderson and Neil plus a 1st in exchange for Eberle and one of their current goaltenders, Fasth or Scrivens. Lehner is pretty close to being ready, and by trading Spezza, and seeing how Turris is not ready, Ottawa is in re-tool mode, whether they want to admit it or not, so there is a good chance they do this deal to add talent to their top-6 forward group. I think Eberle would re-engage in a culture that is not used to losing for a fucking decade.

They shouldn't even bother with Yakupov. Dangle him and more to get a top-6 veteran winger to play with McEichel.

Trade the Nuge. He will certainly return a good two-way center plus a 1st round pick. The kind of guy who knows how to lead, and hates to lose.

I know some people think Nugent-Hopkins is the keeper of their top-3, but as soon as they drafted Draisaitl and hit the wall this season to the point where they are almost guaranteed to be getting McDavid or Eichel, RNH became expendable. Draisaitl projects like a guy who will make a good 2nd line center, and he has size and strength that Nugent-Hopkins does not.

Hall changes as a player with a change in the culture. Keep him. Despite his lack of a brain, he's the highest scoring one of them all. Imagine how much he could do offensively with a player who see's the ice and thinks the game like McEichel.

Qualify Schultz.....he won't sign it but they keep his rights. Go hard after Boychuk, give him 5+ years and $25M if that's what it takes.....if he doesn't re-up with the Isles, who are having a really good season. Then trade Schultz's rights plus parts in the summer for a defensive prospect that might become available after the draft.

Katz simply has to fire Lowe no matter what happens though. I'm not sure that MacT needs to go, he's not a rocket scientist, but I do think he has an approach to hockey that recognizes talent but also the underlying need for character and depth. Lowe just isn't letting that happen.
User avatar
Island Nucklehead
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1219
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Island Nucklehead »

I'm still baffled why they didn't let Draisaitl go play for Germany at the World Juniors. He's been a healthy scratch recently, the atmosphere is completely cynical and toxic, the team is going nowhere. Let him go lead, be worshipped by the other German players, and hit the re-set button. Germany won't do any damage, but at least it's a change of scenery. The press-box is not going to help his development.

I don't think Eberle returns a package like that. Neil has a modified NTC (bet Edmonton is a no-go), and Ottawa is looking at a top-10 pick in what's likely the best draft in at least a decade. One option for them is Montreal, and a guy they might target is Tinordi. This season is a write off, but a Tinordi-Nurse pairing could be fucking terrifying down the road.

I wouldn't trade RNH or Hall. They need more size up front. Purcell and Pouliot play about 5'10. If they really want to get bold, and assuming they wind up with McDavid or Eichel, would be to send Draisaitl to Detroit in a trade for Mantha. I'd be calling Columbus to see if Scott Hartnell still has a NTC after his move from Philly, move Perron and bring him in. Back up the brinks truck to Marc Staal.

Hall-RNH-Hartnell
Yakupov-McEichel-Purcell
Mantha-Gordon-Pouliot
Hendricks-Arcobello-Pitlick

Staal-Schultz
Nikitin-Ference
Nurse-Tinordi
Fayne-Klefbom

There's just no room for Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Eberle, Draisaitl, McEichel and Perron up front there. Who does the heavy lifting?


Edit: and yes, regardless, Lowe's gotta go.
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1972
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Meds »

Island Nucklehead wrote:I'm still baffled why they didn't let Draisaitl go play for Germany at the World Juniors. He's been a healthy scratch recently, the atmosphere is completely cynical and toxic, the team is going nowhere. Let him go lead, be worshipped by the other German players, and hit the re-set button. Germany won't do any damage, but at least it's a change of scenery. The press-box is not going to help his development.
I hadn't paid any attention to that. If they do end up sending him to junior (pending trade between St. Albert and Kelowna), that should be the nail in Lowe's coffin and MacT's first warning. Absolutely stupid.
I don't think Eberle returns a package like that. Neil has a modified NTC (bet Edmonton is a no-go), and Ottawa is looking at a top-10 pick in what's likely the best draft in at least a decade. One option for them is Montreal, and a guy they might target is Tinordi. This season is a write off, but a Tinordi-Nurse pairing could be fucking terrifying down the road.
In the current market Eberle absolutely returns that when paired with a goaltender like Fasth or Scrivens. Eberle went into the season ranked as one of the top 15 RW'ers in the league (depending upon where you looked he was as high as 8th). He warrants a 1st round pick easily. Eberle and Bobby Ryan could potentially be an incredible duo.

Anderson is a starter, but he's not the most sought after commodity, and he's 33 years old playing in front of the guy that the Senators traded Bishop to make room for. At the end of this season that trade is something that Murray would probably look long and hard at, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him take it. Neil doesn't have to be included, but Eberle and Scrivens/Fasth are certainly worth more than Anderson and a 1st round pick.

I wouldn't trade RNH or Hall. They need more size up front. Purcell and Pouliot play about 5'10. If they really want to get bold, and assuming they wind up with McDavid or Eichel, would be to send Draisaitl to Detroit in a trade for Mantha. I'd be calling Columbus to see if Scott Hartnell still has a NTC after his move from Philly, move Perron and bring him in. Back up the brinks truck to Marc Staal.
If you are adding McEichel, you are making RNH expendable. He's small, he's soft, and he's not the "generational talent" that those other two are heralded as being. Yes you're banking on them not being the next Daigle. The approach you are taking is the same one that Lowe, MacT, Tambellini, etc., have all taken. No risk, no reward. Afraid of the lateral move because it's not immediately apparent that it is a forward one.

You aren't going to attract veteran free agents to Edmonton without some significant changes made to management and roster.

Adding a starting goalie. Adding a top-6 veteran winger. Adding a top-6 veteran center. Proving that you are willing to part with "untouchables" in order to force the change that needs to be forced.

Make trades like I thought up that acquire the likes of, Anderson, Hossa, Vermette, coupled with the drafting of the "Next One", and then you can attract guys like Boychuk or Staal via free agency. You will NOT get that kind of free agent if the only changes you make are moving out a guy like Perron in exchange for Hartnell, and then swapping unproven prospects.
[/quote]

Hall-RNH-Hartnell
Yakupov-McEichel-Purcell
Mantha-Gordon-Pouliot
Hendricks-Arcobello-Pitlick

Staal-Schultz
Nikitin-Ference
Nurse-Tinordi
Fayne-Klefbom

There's just no room for Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Eberle, Draisaitl, McEichel and Perron up front there. Who does the heavy lifting?
[/quote]

Draisaitl is already listed by several sources as being 6'1" and 210lbs. Safe to assume he'll be playing at 6'2" 215-220lbs in a few years. Why is he on your list of guys who aren't big enough?

Yakupov needs to go regardless of anything else. He's been a complete bust in Edmonton, but he still has enough upside that another GM will bite on him in a headliner trade. And rightfully so, the kid has loads of talent, he's just had nobody to point him the right direction since he landed in the NHL. But if Edmonton keeps him, I don't see him being worth a bag of pucks in a few years, at which point the only thing keeping him in North America will be the abysmal state of the Ruble.

Eberle isn't tiny, but he's a soft player, move him to the east where they prefer those kind of players.

Nugent-Hopkins is 6'0", and while the NHL lists him at 190lbs, other sites list him at 79kg or 175lbs.....from what I've seen of the kid I call bullshit on NHL.com. He plays a soft game. If his value is high, trade him.

McEichel are both listed as above 6 feet tall, and 187+ lbs.....at 18 years of age they are gonna end up playing an inch taller and 15lbs heavier. They can do some heavier lifting.

It would be advantageous for them to be able to add a big bodied winger with skill.....think 6'3" 220lbs.....but not every team has that player in their top-6, and they aren't a requirement for success.
User avatar
Island Nucklehead
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1219
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Mëds wrote: you are adding McEichel, you are making RNH expendable. He's small, he's soft, and he's not the "generational talent" that those other two are heralded as being.
Not sure they are mutually exclusive. Eichel is listed at 6'2, 195 right now. Safe to say he'll play around 210? The Oilers have an 80% to NOT have McDavid next season. RNH is still a very cerebral and talented playmaker. It would be foolish for them to give up on him at 21. If they get McDavid, I still think I keep them both and try to get bigger on the wings.
Make trades like I thought up that acquire the likes of, Anderson, Hossa, Vermette, coupled with the drafting of the "Next One", and then you can attract guys like Boychuk or Staal via free agency. You will NOT get that kind of free agent if the only changes you make are moving out a guy like Perron in exchange for Hartnell, and then swapping unproven prospects.
Vermette is a UFA this summer, and I have no idea why Edmonton wants to take on Hossa until he's 42. Anderson they could use, but I doubt Ottawa moves him, Lehner isn't ready to take that kinda workload. If I'm Ottawa, I'm not giving up Anderson and the chance at a Kylington/Crouse/Barzal for a $6M Eberle.
Draisaitl is already listed by several sources as being 6'1" and 210lbs. Safe to assume he'll be playing at 6'2" 215-220lbs in a few years. Why is he on your list of guys who aren't big enough?
Draisaitl is plenty big, he's just not as good as RNH or McEichel.
Yakupov needs to go regardless of anything else
They should have traded the Yakupov pick. No clue what his value is right now, but they're probably better of re-signing him and hoping he turns it around.
The approach you are taking is the same one that Lowe, MacT, Tambellini, etc., have all taken. No risk, no reward. Afraid of the lateral move because it's not immediately apparent that it is a forward one.
I'm not moving RNH for a "2-way C and 1st round pick". That would be absolutely insane. I'm targeting needs, they need big wingers in their top-6 (Mantha), they need to get grittier (Hartnell), and they need to get better and meaner on the back-end (Tinordi). I'm not sure where the goalie comes from, but they are readily available in the offseason and their trade values are generally low (Niemi is a UFA this summer, Ward and Backstrom in their final years next season).
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
Posts: 5519
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Topper »

Edmonton should trade Hall and their 2016 1st to Buffalo for their 1st Round 2015 pick

Move Buffalo's 1st Round pick with Ebele for the Hurricanes 2015 1st Round pick.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
damonberryman
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:07 am

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by damonberryman »

RoyalDude wrote:Wow are the Oilers really bad. They get smoked by one of the shittier teams in the league in their own barn - the Coyotes. A team who the previous night got about shit canned by the Canucks.

There is only one person to blame now - Katz. To allow this to go on and on and on and not clean house of the people who put the team together is strange. Only one explanation for this - Katz has a gay man crush on Kevin Lowe.
I hate to agree with you but you may be right on this one. It is like the Sherlock said, 'when all the obvious solutions are gone look for the one left' or some shit like that.
damonberryman
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:07 am

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by damonberryman »

The real problem here is the geographic location of Edmonton. How does a young man with a family who was not born in far northern Canada make a choice to go to Edmonton? Even a young man with no family, no dog and no brain is going to have problems with that idea. Not only is it really cold and winter lasts forever, but the summer is mosquito ridden and there is even less culture than in Calgary. Hell, I liked Saskatoon better. Now look at the southern teams and what they offer. Less taxes, warmer weather, true chance for fame and rich endorsements (what are they going to endorse in Edmonton....... dog sleighs?).

I can actually see McDavid or Eichel doing a Lindros here and turning the Oil down. Their best move is to move this pick for a jackpot of vets and picks but the present management will not do that. If I was an oil fan I would be considering giving up by now. I almost, ALMOST, feel for them but then I remember the 80's and I am all about fuck them.
User avatar
Chef Boi RD
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7256
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Gotta agree about playing in Edmonton for Edmonton. I've been there a few times and its not a fun city. When a mall is your best attraction that pretty much tells you what a great place it is to play. Calgary is a thousand times better of a city to live in.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
User avatar
Island Nucklehead
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1219
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Island Nucklehead »

RoyalDude wrote:Gotta agree about playing in Edmonton for Edmonton. I've been there a few times and its not a fun city. When a mall is your best attraction that pretty much tells you what a great place it is to play. Calgary is a thousand times better of a city to live in.
Living where I do (Northwest Territories), Edmonton is our "hub", the "big city". It's a dump. That mall is aging and far too busy. The Fantasyland hotel should have suites named "Vancouver" and "Calgary" to give guests the fantasy they're in a real city. I went to a Canucks/Oilers game a couple years back. Shitty hotels, shitty arena in a real greasy location, there's really nothing to like about that city.

As far as McEichel doing a Lindros, I can't see it. There's so much money in endorsements and public image these days that a hold-out/standoff could cost them lots of $$$. They'll likely be like Hall/Eberle/RNH, they will play out their ELC, and then it will cost Edmonton a shit-pile to buy up any UFA years. There is something to be said about Edmonton moving that pick, however. They'd likely get almost anyone they wanted (obvious candidates excluded). Could they land Shea Weber with that pick? Given Nashville's current D-corps, I'd say they could.
User avatar
dangler
MVP
MVP
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:31 pm
Location: East Van

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by dangler »

Island Nucklehead wrote:............ There is something to be said about Edmonton moving that pick, however. They'd likely get almost anyone they wanted (obvious candidates excluded). Could they land Shea Weber with that pick? Given Nashville's current D-corps, I'd say they could.
With the abundance of NTC/NMC's throughout the league they would still have trouble making a deal.
User avatar
Island Nucklehead
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1219
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Island Nucklehead »

dangler wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:............ There is something to be said about Edmonton moving that pick, however. They'd likely get almost anyone they wanted (obvious candidates excluded). Could they land Shea Weber with that pick? Given Nashville's current D-corps, I'd say they could.
With the abundance of NTC/NMC's throughout the league they would still have trouble making a deal.
True story, which is why I mention Weber, who doesn't have a NTC due to the Flyers structuring his offer sheet that way. He's really a perfect target for them, Norris-caliber d-man, under contract forever, without an NTC... The other guy, whose NTC hasn't kicked in yet, is Pietrangelo out of St Louis. If GM's feel McDavid is in that Crosby ballpark, nearly any player in the league would be available.
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1972
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by Meds »

Weber probably gets to Edmonton and immediately asks for a trade to Vancouver. Then we'll send them Edler + Gaunce + Higgins + 1st + Stanton.....which is a brutal under-payment, but gets it done because Edmonton is bent over a barrel. :lol:

Seriously though.....

Before MacTavish (or whoever calls the shots for the Oilers) makes a deal that sends the 1st or 2nd overall pick to another team, he needs to ask for permission to have a chat with the player(s) coming back. If that player hates the idea of coming there, he needs to really re-examine the move.
User avatar
herb
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: Time to Change the Oil.

Post by herb »

Katz needs to shit can his management team before STHs cant even give tickets away circa the 1990s.
Post Reply