Vinnie and Joe
Because players with the stature of Lecavalier, and the type of presence he has in the Tampa marketplace, don’t get moved without being part of the process. So when all is said and done, the direction this story goes hinges heavily on what Lecavalier wants to do. Bob McKenzie
Tyler Dellow has a wee bit of difficulty with McKenzie’s view:
I don’t know that Lecavalier is in Thornton’s class to be honest, but I’ve got no idea what McKenzie was driving at there. I’ve got doubts that Vinny Lecavalier is as well known in Tampa as a guy like Ryan Smyth was in Edmonton and Smyth got thrown over the side of the ship without being consulted about the move. I’m not saying that it’s not within the rights of the team, only that McKenzie’s angle on the whole thing is so completely disconnected from reality that it’s hard to know what to make of it. It’s rare that I read something and think to myself “The only plausible understanding of this is demonstrably false”, but McKenzie has found a way to do it. Amazing.
I think McKenzie’s angle is correct – Lecavalier will be consulted – but his reasons are indeed disconnected from reality. He should have said “Players with an $85 MM contract don’t get moved without being part of the process.” I don’t think the Lightning give a rat’s ass about Lecavalier or his stature any more than the Bruins cared about Thornton or the Oilers cared about Smyth. Tampa may not care whether Vinnie is happy about going to Montreal or Edmonton, but any team that is going to pony up a raft of assets and take on an $85 MM commitment is going to want assurances from Vinnie.
I don’t think I want Lecavalier at that price in any case, but I’m absolutely sure I don’t want him if he’s not excited about joining my team.
Postscript: Its officially past circus in Tampa Bay. If they really do trade Vinnie scant months after signing him to an 11 year contract, they are either the most incompetent boobs to ever run a franchise or the team is very nearly broke.
Yeah, I agree with what you’re saying about Montreal needing assurances. It was just the bit about his stature that I found bizarre.
Tom, with regards to your postscript, I’m pretty sure the answer’s “all of the above.”
James beat me to it.
With brilliant owners like Len Barrie and Charles Wang, it is imperative that they keep a bad guy like Jim Balsillie out of the league.
I was speaking with a well-respected NHL executive before the season began and he asked me who I thought the biggest mistake UFA signing was, I said Redden (I’m sticking by that) and he said Prospal. I told him I didn’t mind Prospal (“he’s got a thing with Lecavalier”), but I expressed my complete disagreement with how TB was going about building their team on-ice, not to mention their total classlessness and unprofessionalism off-ice. I told him I was actively rooting for them to fail and was very surprised to hear him say he felt the same way. Well, the circus has been down there for a while but the Lecavalier stuff has taken them from amateur hour to an ineptitude that is equal parts gross negligence and pure buffoonery. I’m sure there are shit eating grins all around the league. That said, the Lecavalier contract is TERRIBLE, and they would do well to get out from under it.
I don’t think the contract is very good either although the way it is structured keeps the AAV fairly low. He’s not a terrible deal CBA wise for the first five years. After that…
That said, apparently several teams are interested in paying a raft of young assets to acquire that contract. A greater fool? Or do teams assess this differently than we do?
great article, I gotta say I feel this whole debacle is being fueled by co-owner Len Barrie. His ‘hands-on’ style of ownership seems to be the root cause of their latest issues, he is treating his team much like he runs his other businesses. Let’s just say he isn’t the most popular guy in Victoria. That being said, I think it’s a huge mistake for the Bolts to trade him, and for anyone else to take him on. Too much will have to be given up in exchange, and how can fans of the team support them when the face of the franchise, locked in just mere months ago is shipped off?
I don’t think the contract is very good either although the way it is structured keeps the AAV fairly low. He’s not a terrible deal CBA wise for the first five years. After that…
Yea, especially compared to Staal’s contract (another brutal one), the cap hit is not all that terrible. And Lecavalier will provide much more, for the first half of his deal at least. But 6 or 7 years from now, on a team that is not likely going to be able to spend to the cap every season, that money and that cap hit is going to kill TB. If the lawn wranglers dont destroy the franchise first, that is.
That said, apparently several teams are interested in paying a raft of young assets to acquire that contract. A greater fool? Or do teams assess this differently than we do?
Well, I think several teams are interested in kicking the tires, but I’m not sure several teams are interested in actually paying all that much. Montreal, a team that probably would get serious, has a bunch of valuable pieces that it probably won’t be able to keep or play enough anyway. They could pay Plekanec 3-4M a year, or they could just hope that some combination of Pacioretty/Chipchura/D’Agostini/Maxwell can do his job on the cheap for the next few years. Subban’s value is sky high right now, but they’ve also got mcdonough and hopefully one day valentenko and/or emelin. They seem hell-bent on landing a marquee player and given their recent lack of success on the UFA market, a trade might be the only way to do it. All that said, it looks like it’s not going to happen. I don’t understand why Lecavalier is not doing everything he can to make this happen. I love warm weather as much if not more than anyone, and playing hockey during the day and then stepping outside wearing sandals is kinda perfect, but how great would it be to play in Montreal? Watching hockey in that atmosphere is amazing, what must playing in it be like? Tampa, on the other hand, is a shit-hole.
But 6 or 7 years from now, on a team that is not likely going to be able to spend to the cap every season, that money and that cap hit is going to kill TB. If the lawn wranglers dont destroy the franchise first, that is.
I think this depends on where league revenues and the cap actually is seven years down the road. If revenues increase by 10% a year (a stretch, I know) revenues double in seven years. If that happens, the deal doesn’t look bad. It looks good.
I think this is one reason we see such ridiculous deals (in terms of length) now. If revenues grow robustly, the deal is good. If they do not grow, the deal sucks. Teams bend toward the optimistic because they are used to 10% plus growth and because five or seven years down the road the GM isn’t likely to be around to deal with the mess anyway.
Well, I think several teams are interested in kicking the tires, but I’m not sure several teams are interested in actually paying all that much.
I think this is probably why the deal is not on. Gainey might be willing to take the contract, but he’s not willing to pay enough in assets to make the deal salable in Tampa.
I don’t understand why Lecavalier is not doing everything he can to make this happen.
I think it must be personal. Vinnie is probably like Kariya, a guy who likes flying under the radar. He’d rather have a life than live in the Montreal fishbowl. If he really wanted Montreal, he doesn’t sign the deal.
From my understanding of the press accounts, Lecavalier, is pretty well integrated into the community. Plus, if he has a wife and kids, that may be your answer right there, whether or not Vinny would like playing in a fishbowl.
I dunno why people think it is such a bad contract. IF one accepts the premise that one needs a marquee player to win a cup, he is such a player, and he has a ring to boot. Teams will always pay a premium, in the vicinity of the individual cap, for a player of that caliber.
Is it that people doubt that he is a near-max caliber player? I have a hard time fathoming that. Is it instead that people accept that he is a max-type player but he does not have 11 years of top-level play left? IF so, then they in my estimation do not understand why it is that such long contracts are being structured this way.
It’s the length combined with his age. It’s not that I don’t think he doesn’t have 11 years of top-level play left, I’m not sure he has 7 years of top-level play left. (And yes, I understand that Vinnie is not likely to play all 11 years of the deal, but still). Zetterberg is probably going to get a 9 or 10 year deal at a similar cap hit, and he’s a better player in my opinion. Datsyuk’s better than both of them and he got less money and less years (though that’s probably the best deal in the league (for the team) and can’t be the measuring stick going forward). It’s one thing to give a 13-year deal to a 23-year old. It’s another thing to give an 11-year deal to a 29-year old with a fair amount of miles on him. I like Vinnie a lot (his stories of playing in Kazan are really interesting) and I don’t think TB had much choice in giving that deal to him, but it’s going to be hard for them to put together a good team around him, especially if they can’t spend to the cap, which I imagine they won’t be able to do consistently. That said, Vinnie is the least of the problems over there.
“If I can be totally honest, it’s not a lot of guys you get impressed by,” Samuelsson said. “Actually, it’s no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes — you’re like, ‘I wish I could do that.’ Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, ‘wow,’ and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I’m probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has.”
Lecavalier isn’t on Thornton’s level? Hmmm. So how many rings does Joe have again?