Probably a Good Choice
I like Jamie Fitzpatrick’s take on Stefan Legein’s decision to pass on his chance to chase the NHL dream:
Fans love the official story. The hockey business loves it too. The “dream” shtick ensures an endless supply of athletes fighting to get to the top, even though most of them will never make any real money…
But maybe it’s not burnout. Maybe Legein simply gave it some thought – always frowned upon in the sports world – and made a life choice.
I think this is very likely the case. And – assuming he makes the smart decision in terms of his alternatives – its probably his best decision. The key point is that most players like Stefan Legein don’t end up making any real money. Unless he is the exception, he was going to eventually get a real job anyway. And – again, unless he is the exception – he’ll make more money over the long term if he quits hockey now.
His best choice involves cashing the scholarship he earned over his OHL career and spend the next four years playing hockey and studying at a Canadian University. Stefan Legein the wannabe NHL player would earn much more than Stefan Legein the University student over the next five years. But for the forty years after that? The Stefan Legein who quits hockey and goes to school will end up miles ahead.
Professional hockey as a career only pays for the small minority of players who become NHL regulars and remain regulars for several years. Everyone else is better off getting an early start in the real world. So what were Legein’s chances of being an NHL regular for several years? He’s a player who has to play with reckless abandon to make it and he’s a very small agitator in the NHL. He’s suffered a major injury even before turning professional. How likely is further injury? How much fun can a guy have when the job involves throwing yourself at players who are six inches taller and outweigh you by fifty pounds? How likely is stardom?
Hard work. No fun. Lots of pain. Probable failure. Not nearly enough money to compensate for the time wasted chasing a remote chance, a dream. Who needs hockey that badly? I don’t think we should be surprised when smart young men in Legein’s position decide to pass on the NHL.
The real surprise is that it doesn’t happen more often.
The key point is that most players like Stefan Legein don’t end up making any real money. . . . . Unless he is the exception, he was going to eventually get a real job anyway.
I think the key point ought to be that young people should be encouraged to pursue that which interests them (not their parents) until it stops interesting them. If it’s become a chore for Legein to lace them up every day, it’s time to throw in the towel, no matter what his pro earning potential was thought to be.
It sounds like the sport (or maybe a Father’s obsession with it) itself has become an albatross around his neck, not the NHL, as there’s no reason Legein couldn’t head to Sweden, Germany, or Switzerland to avoid the 6 inch/50 pound NHL disadvantage and still make $300k per year.
That said, I’m not onside with Tom’s spreadsheet-like analysis of the situation. So what if an 8-year AHL-level pro career puts him behind his peers when it comes to ‘career earnings’ in the real world . . .
(a) money isn’t everything
(b) chasing dreams has value in itself, dis-ir-regardless if the dream is caught
(c) success in life ought to be measured by how much fun you have, not how you ‘measured up’ against some amorphous group of ‘peers’, many of whom are lemmings just sleep-walking through life, playing roles designed to win approval from others
(d) the real world is grossly overrated.
If it’s become a chore for Legein to lace them up every day, it’s time to throw in the towel, no matter what his pro earning potential was thought to be.
I think everyone agrees with this.
It sounds like the sport (or maybe a Father’s obsession with it) itself has become an albatross around his neck, not the NHL, as there’s no reason Legein couldn’t head to Sweden, Germany, or Switzerland to avoid the 6 inch/50 pound NHL disadvantage and still make $300k per year.
I don’t think there is any evidence his father – or anyone else is obsessed with hockey. Legein himself clearly is not.
(a) money isn’t everything
True. A big part of the dream, though, is the lure of big money. For a 19 year old, an AHL salary is big money. The average NHL salary is huge money.
For most, that’s all it is – a lure. It comes with an opportunity cost that is far larger than the average 19 year old would understand. I’m not saying he should quit because his career earnings will be larger if he does.
I am saying he should not be staying in the game because he’s making good money and because he has the remote chance of making great money. Under most scenarios, he is better off financially without hockey.
(b) chasing dreams has value in itself, dis-ir-regardless if the dream is caught
I suppose, but at a certain point, hockey players – people – should look at those dreams realistically. Most are going to give up on the dream (or have it yanked away) sooner or later. Generally speaking, sooner is much better than later. There are many, many stories of broken down ex-athletes out there. The NHLPA has a program designed to help ex-players adjust to life after a broken dream.
I have no real problem with a player who chooses to chase that dream until the bitter end, but he should understand there is a real opportunity cost in doing so. How many of these kids get good advice on the subject? From who? Everybody else has an interest in the dream too.
And I’m certainly not going to question him or his parents or the system when he chooses the option he thinks is best for him.
(c) success in life ought to be measured by how much fun you have, not how you ‘measured up’ against some amorphous group of ‘peers’, many of whom are lemmings just sleep-walking through life, playing roles designed to win approval from others
I don’t disagree, but how things ought to be doesn’t count for much. To one degree or another we are all lemmings.
(d) the real world is grossly overrated.
True, but it is nowhere near as overrated as the hockey world.
The key point is that most players like Stefan Legein don’t end up making any real money. Unless he is the exception, he was going to eventually get a real job anyway. And – again, unless he is the exception – he’ll make more money over the long term if he quits hockey now.
we’ll never know for sure of course, but this strikes me as ludicrous. stefan legein was a top-9 forward (on an insanely effective shut down line) at both the russian “super” series and the world juniors last year. he was just as effective as players that are regarded as some of the top prospects in the game and who are almost assuredly going to have long and productive, and lucrative, careers. how many players on the super series team are not going have 10 year careers? 2 or 3, maybe 4? was legein going to be one of those exceptions? doubtful. he was pretty close to a lock to be an nhl regular at least starting in 09/10, meaning he would have made about 1.5 million before turning 22. what’s an effective third-line agitator make in today’s game, at the low end 1.2 million if you’re matt cooke, 4 million for sean avery. is it more likely that stefan legein is the next oren koules or the next scottie upshall? this discussion would make alot more sense if we were talking about someone with less promise than stefan legein.
how many players on the super series team are not going have 10 year careers? 2 or 3, maybe 4?
I’m not sure about that, Rajeev. If you go to Hockey Canada’s website, you can check out all the rosters from Team Canada’s world junior entry over the last number of years. Click on a roster from the mid to late 90s anywhere — you will be blown away at the number of players there who had very short, disappointing NHL careers, or who barely even got a sniff in the NHL. (Hello, Josh Holden!) Now, it does vary year to year, but still, every World Junior roster has at least a few guys who simply never made it to the NHL.
Having said that, even if he flamed right out this kid was likely on track to make at least 250K in guaranteed money, if past draft picks are any indication.
One thing that i think is being missed here is that an NHL career is an extremely handy thing to have on one’s resume when one is pursuing one’s post-NHL endeavours. It definitely adds a patina of success, with all of the attributes about that person that it correctly and incorrectly implies (hard work, teamwork, blah blah). If you don’t realize that athletic success plays well in the corporate world (and not just with jock-sniffers, either), you are kidding yourself.
Click on a roster from the mid to late 90s anywhere — you will be blown away at the number of players there who had very short, disappointing NHL careers, or who barely even got a sniff in the NHL.
agree agree. but i think the super series roster was particularly good and that 88/89 was an exceptionally good set of years for canada. look at that team and players like lucic, gagner, and perron who have already had an impact on the nhl level. how much are the their next contracts going to be worth?
legein may not be at their level, but isnt he more likely to make it than players like godfrey, marchand, or emmerton? maybe those three guys, plus one of the goalies, plus maybe marchand become marginal nhl players, or nhl/ahl/del/khl guys. 1) they can still make some pretty freaking good scratch doing that; 2) i think, and i think alot of scouts would agree with me, that legein has more going for him than those guys. this guy is a player. iirc it was him and sutter and lucic playing together and they made some pretty skilled russians look pretty ineffective (notwithstanding sutter’s brutal cheap shot). barring a serious injury or just totally losing confidence (which i dont think are rational justifications for giving up the sport in order to begin a 150k per year management job) this guy is going to make millions of dollars playing hockey over the next 15 years. if he loses the desire to play, that’s another thing entirely and one which would certainly justify hanging ‘em up.
One thing that i think is being missed here is that an NHL career is an extremely handy thing to have on one’s resume when one is pursuing one’s post-NHL endeavours.
wait for it… totally agree, baby g. the idea that a pro nhl hockey player entering the corporate world at age 30 is somehow disadvantage as to a 23 year graduate with a degree in business administration from kingston university or wherever you canadians go is, frankly, asinine.
Hello, Josh Holden!
holden’s a great example of how sweet it is, at least in terms of compensation, to be really good at hockey. holden was by all accounts a huge nhl bust. i dont see legein falling into that trap (very different kind of player), but let’s assume he does. holden has been playing in the swiss alps for the past 3 years. as one of the top players in the league over there, my guess is he makes at least $500,000 a year. not too bad for only 50 or so games a year. does working 100 hours a week as an analyst hoping to make 150k compare with that?
if youre paul healy and you play for a slovenian team in the austrian league (and arent the best player on your team), maybe professional hockey has not been great to you financially. but those players dont play important roles on gold medal winning world junior teams.
there are tons of sensible reasons why legein could stop playing hockey. thinking it’s a smart move from a financial standpoint to quit now is not one of them. i think tom’s point is a good one. he picked the wrong player by miles to make it. players like ryan o’marra or hugh jessiman (still chasing the dream amidst a slew of injuries and diminishing prospects) would work better.
The best example would be the guys who were the subject of the book, “Zamboni Rodeo”. If you are playing in the ECHL, the CHL, (formerly the WPHL or “Whipple”, as it was known in the book), then you should definitely go get on with the rest of your life ASAP. There were some sad stories in there. For example, I was shocked that Brett Seguin, a guy who had 134 points one year in the OHL, was stuck down in that league. Former Canuck goalie Frank Caprice was still playing in the WPHL at age 36 in the late 90s, playing for a few hundred bucks a week at most. As one coach I know said to me, “That book makes you hope that your kid DOESN’T make it.”
wait for it… totally agree, baby g. the idea that a pro nhl hockey player entering the corporate world at age 30 is somehow disadvantage as to a 23 year graduate with a degree in business administration from kingston university or wherever you canadians go is, frankly, asinine.
Do you have any evidence – even anecdotal – to support this position? Most of us who spent a lot of time working and studying the labour market would classify hockey like most entertainment occupations. It is all or nothing. If a player has a successful NHL career he probably doesn’t have to trade on his name to get a job although he probably could. If a player does not succeed in the occupation, the fact he is an ex-hockey player is next to worthless. Within a few years, nobody has heard of him. Can Frank Caprice trade on his name?
There is anecdotal evidence that does show that ex-athletes do poorly in the labour market after they quit. They do so badly sports unions have programs to help them adjust.
One surprising fact about the labour market is that the number one factor in determining success in any occupation is an early start. Its more important than an education. I haven’t reviewed any of the literature on the subject for the last decade or so, but I’d be shocked if there has been significant change.
I don’t know that I would state the position as strongly as rajeev, and I have heard the point about early starts in occupations, but just to clarify, my point was not about trading on one’s name per se.
What I was (and am) saying is that carrying notable non-academic achievements on one’s resume is a significant factor in getting hired, even if the achievement is not necessarily directly related to one’s field (especially for sales-related or customer-interfacing positions). I can certainly confirm that in one scenario that I was involved in, a guy definitely got a leg up on a job because he had played NCAA hockey. Certainly the guy had other qualifications, but that played a role in it. If the guy had been a former NHLer, that would have worked even better for him.
Do you have any evidence – even anecdotal – to support this position?
the roll calls of the top business schools in the states are filled with division I college athletes and those that got a brief sniff of the show. i can guarantee you that brian burke’s very non-nhl but very significant college and minor hockey experience meant a lot more on his resume in applying to harvard law school than the line “ice hockey enthusiast” means on mine. being a professional or semi-professional athlete requires dedication, hard-work, self-confidence, and often leadership, qualities that are highly sought after in the business world. i was involved in recruiting for a large, national law firm and can attest that high-level athletic experience was another positive attribute that goes into the calculus.
if you really want anecdotal evidence you dont have to look far, we can talk about lenny dykstra, len barrie, mike walton, and ken dryden and their successful post-athletic careers. is it fair to suggest that none of them would have had the same level and same type of success they did have if they didnt first find success in sports? koules is a good example of a guy who didnt have much success at the pro-level but gave it a shot and didnt seem to do too bad for himself after he hung them up.
i think you’re point that ex-players do badly in their career labor-markets is obviously correct. we don’t have to look farther than dykstra who is looking to expand his largesse and help out his buds by creating some sort of players only magazine aimed at helping jocks manage their money and lives and adapt to the real world, etc.
but the important question is what is the cause of this handicap? is it that being a professional athlete, in esse, makes you an unattractive professional? or are there confounding variables that are affecting the outcome? my guess is that there are other professional deficiencies, though curable, that many athletes have or develop and that lead to their secondary career failure. it isnt too hard to think about the mechanism, but suffice it to say, if stefan legein was planning on drinking and fucking his way through his career, spending his bonus on an escalade, investing his money in faberge eggs, and not bothering to figure out what an ira or municipal bonds are, then yes, he probably should quit hockey at this point.
however, if legein is really retiring because he’s thinking about his future financial prospects and his ability to support him and his family, he’s probably going to be smart enough to do those things once he’s given it a kick at the can for a couple years. if he’s worried about maximizing his potential future earnings, it seems that there are a ton of things he can be doing while he plays hockey rather than quitting the sport altogether.
it’s hard as hell to make it as a professional hockey player. it takes an insane amount of commitment and intensity, and i imagine the kid is fried at this point. he’s thinking i just turned 19 and im fried, something’s wrong. that makes sense to me. if he’s thinking, “im 19 and though i love hockey, i probably wont make it, so what i should do is take my scholarship money, go to the university of toronto, work liker a dog at a brokerage firm for two or three years, then apply to business school, then in 3 or 4 years i’ll be making what i would have been making as a rookie in the nhl,” then well, he’s lost his mind.
the roll calls of the top business schools in the states are filled with division I college athletes and those that got a brief sniff of the show. i can guarantee you that brian burke’s very non-nhl but very significant college and minor hockey experience meant a lot more on his resume in applying to harvard law school than the line “ice hockey enthusiast” means on mine.
For sure, but Brian Burke was very smart to give up on his NHL dream and go to law school. If the legend is right, Lou told him his future in hockey was off the ice.
being a professional or semi-professional athlete requires dedication, hard-work, self-confidence, and often leadership, qualities that are highly sought after in the business world. i was involved in recruiting for a large, national law firm and can attest that high-level athletic experience was another positive attribute that goes into the calculus.
Again it does count. But compared to grades, law school reviews, and relevant experience?
but the important question is what is the cause of this handicap? is it that being a professional athlete, in esse, makes you an unattractive professional?
Usually they are not educated. Even when they do have an education, they lack employment experience. They have passed on many things given the insane amount of commitment and intensity required.
We are not talking about kids who enjoy some success but blow all their money along the way. We are talking about the kids who make that same commitment, but they get hurt and/or turn out to be not quite good enough to make really good money.
however, if legein is really retiring because he’s thinking about his future financial prospects and his ability to support him and his family, he’s probably going to be smart enough to do those things once he’s given it a kick at the can for a couple years.
Legein isn’t thinking this at all, probably. If I had to guess, I’d say the injury had a big impact. He played two playoff games in the AHL and then packed it in? I think the handwriting was on the wall right there. But for whatever reason, he doesn’t want to do it any more.
All I’m saying is that that choice probably didn’t cost him any money that he won’t recover later.
One thing that i think is being missed here is that an NHL career is an extremely handy thing to have on one’s resume when one is pursuing one’s post-NHL endeavours. It definitely adds a patina of success, with all of the attributes about that person that it correctly and incorrectly implies (hard work, teamwork, blah blah). If you don’t realize that athletic success plays well in the corporate world (and not just with jock-sniffers, either), you are kidding yourself.
A resume with “___ years in the NHL” may open some doors in the corporate world, and may keep a pink slip at bay for a little longer if he starts to stumble, but all such benefits accrue to jock-sniffing of one degree or another. It should be noted that jock-sniffers don’t all have to be die-hard hockey fans. Being known for having been among the top 0.01% in the world at something carries a fair amount of cachet even among people who don’t know or care a whole lot about that something.
I would maintain that the qualities that allegedly come with an athletic pedigree (hard work, teamwork, blah blah), are just as statistically present in the much-larger-pool of ex-players who got to, say, Midget AAA (but no further) as they are in the cream-of-the-crop who make the NHL. The differences between the two groups has a lot more to do with genetics (who got the fast-twitch muscle fibers & better neuro-muscular coordination) and Dad’s financial position (to pay for private lessons, Turcotte stickhandling camps, Robby Glantz power skating clinics, etc.,) — things that don’t help corporate America/Canada — than the ‘will to win’ and ‘teamwork’.
Unless the jock in question is being employed in some kind of roving corporate ambassadorship (think Bobby Orr with Nabisco, circa early 80′s), that N-H-L on the resume has got to have a short half-life.
For sure, but Brian Burke was very smart to give up on his NHL dream and go to law school.
for sure, but burke was 23 and had played one full ahl season when he quit. oh, and he was never half the player stefan legein was. if we’re talking about a 21 yr-old legein who cant make it out of syracuse and whose shoulder is still all messed up, then i would be more inclined to believe your position that he was doing this as a result of a cost-benefit, future earnings analysis.
Again it does count. But compared to grades, law school reviews, and relevant experience?
it all adds up, man. everyone basically gets the same grades at the top law schools, so you need something that distinguishes you. the opportunity for grades and law review are both going to be there whenever he decides to quit. the experience of playing in the nhl wont.
If I had to guess, I’d say the injury had a big impact. He played two playoff games in the AHL and then packed it in? I think the handwriting was on the wall right there.
handwriting on the wall with respect to him not being able to make it? that seems unnecessarily cynical doesn’t it. he didnt lose a ton of development time, so if he can recover from the injury and figure out how to play against bigger players without killing himself, something a lot of young players do figure out, he has a good chance at making it. good lord, was anyone watching him against the russians? this kid is an awesome player. add in his value off the ice, id love to have him in my organization.
But for whatever reason, he doesn’t want to do it any more.
i think this is exactly right. and i think this is different point than your original post.
All I’m saying is that that choice probably didn’t cost him any money that he won’t recover later.
yea i just simply disagree with this. i think it’s a money-losing but perhaps lifestyle gaining decision. unless his shoulder really is shredded, he was going to make some money in the nhl. (if it was that badly shredded, then he was silly to come back and finish the season with it). if he dont want to play, he dont want to play. but dont tell me if has a legitimate shot at making 3 mill a year as a civilian. because i think he did in the nhl. i guess it boils down to what we think of his chances as a player. i didnt get to see him much, but what i saw i loved. again, if you made this point with jessiman or o’marra, someone who hasnt played well for multiple years since their draft year, then i would probably with you.
(b) chasing dreams has value in itself, dis-ir-regardless if the dream is caught
Except that assumes it was his dream – not the dream that he thought he should have because of his talent. Every college has students who start off majoring in something because it always came easily to them, or because it was their parents’ dream for them to go to med school, or because they think it is the most likely major to lead to a lucrative career – not because they enjoy it. If you don’t enjoy something, it’s extremely hard to work at it for a long period of time. Just because he was good at hockey doesn’t mean he had enough fun playing the games to make up for everything else. Maybe after his injury he decided he didn’t want the next little bit of his life to be more of the same. Besides, he could be the one to come up with the next Google and sell a start-up company for millions. If nothing else, another career would be likely to involve a lot fewer surgeries.