WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

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Farhan Lalji

WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:22 pm

WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Happy Holidays everyone. Hope all is well with all. Anyway - let's get down to business:

Even with the Sundin signing, the Canucks will still have about 6 million in cap space (pro-rated) around the trade deadline if I understand correctly. With that in mind, who do you think the Canucks should target?....and why? Here are some players that I thought of:

Tomas Kaberle: Good friend of Sundin and can help quarterback our Power Play (especially in light of the fact that Salo's body is made of glass and hardly plays as result). Kaberle hasn't been played up to his level over the past year and a half or so, but perhaps this would change if he came to a playoff bound team.

Brendan Shanahan: Shanahan would only cost us $$$$. Along with that, Shanahan brings a wealth of playoff experience along with leadership. Shanahan might be a shell of his former self but if used correctly (think: Jeremy Roenick - San Jose) might prove to be invaluable. Shanahan might skate like a slug, but the guy can still shoot with the best of em'.

Michael Peca: Peca is another guy that really "steps up" come playoff time. He might be a joke in the regular season, but the guy is a completely different player in the playoffs. His tenure in Edmonton is an example of that. Come crunch time, Peca is one of the best shut down centers and PK'ers out there. Peca's physical player and checking ability is also amongst the league's best. With Sundin (and if by miracle, if Salo and Bieksa are both healthy at the same time :shock: ), the Canucks power play should be pretty top notch. Could a guy like Peca make take our PK to that next level?...or atleast the level that it was during 06/07? If Peca came to Vancouver, would this give Veenyo the option to play Kesler on our top 6?

Josh Green: Is this guy still around in the NHL? If so - why not bring him back? Green played a major role in allowing the Canucks to have some an awesome PK back in 06/07. Green might be useless for the most part, but the guy is a proven PK'er...and was a damn good one for us.

Keith Tkachuk: Like Sundin, Tkachuk is another excellent hockey player that has never won the cup. If Tkachuk goes to a team that has a "promising" (highly debatable by the way) chance of winning the cup, then who else would be more motivated than this guy? Tkachuk would bring major size and toughness to our team....along with scoring ability. Perhaps I'm wrong on this, but I don't think the Canucks would have to give up as much for Tkachuk as Atlanta did 2 years ago.

Nikolai Khabibulin: This will raise a few eyebrows but let's face it: Groin injuries are a bitch. Even IF Luongo comes back in a month or so, it's not farfetched to believe that he could get injured again. Period. Schneider is clearly not ready to play in the NHL, while Sanford is an 'average' goalie at best. Only a team like Detroit can get away with 'average' goaltending. Even with Sundin, the Canucks are not Detroit. So with that in mind, would Khabibulin be a smart option? Only Khabibulin is a shell, the guy is a proven playoff performer....and has won a Stanley Cup. Khabibulin may not be the best option, but he's a helluva lot better than Sanford and Dan Cloutier. Khabibulin probably won't carry the Canucks (nor would he have to), but he wouldn't be a sieve either (like Cloutier unfortunately was....although I did like the guy as a person).

Anyway - those are some of the players that I had in mind. What about you?

Few more things:

1) Maybe this is just my opinion, but I believe that THIS is the best chance the Canucks have at winning the cup. Period. With the salary cap destined to go down next year (and I truly believe that the economy is going to get MUCH MUCH worse), this could be the only time we have ALL of Sundin, Ohlund, and respectable depth. In my opinion, the Canucks are at their peak NOW.

2) Although I'm probably in the minority here, I still believe that Raymond is excellent trade bait. Yes - he has a significant amount of talent, but this is also why other teams will be interested in him. Hell - if a guy like Raymond helps us unload a cripple like Salo (assuming he'd waive his NTC), then I'm all for it. Ideally - a guy like Pyatt could be traded but he won't fetch us anything.

3) I do not advocate "selling the farm", but I do believe that an aggressive approach (i.e. some long term sacrifice for short term advantage) is key. Raymond and a 1st is a package that I'd be willing to part with.

Happy Holidays everyone.

trouble

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by trouble » Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:32 pm

I think they need to go after a PP Defencemen... Someone who can carry the puck and make some quick passes... Scott Neids from The ducks would do it.. But unless The ducks really start to stink it up i doubt we can get him

The team has alot of the right things to win a cup...

Great goalie (luongo)
Big Center (sundin)
Tough D-men
Great 3rd line checkers who can score
Two top lines that can score
Tough guys on the 4th

Only thing i see missing is the Offencive D-men

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by the toucan kid » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:24 pm

Kaberle would be a great idea if he wasn't sucking huge this year, but depending on cost might be worth a look. Something about Nathan Horton and the Sedins just seems right (though Bernier did to me too) and apparently he wants out.

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Lancer » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:51 pm

the toucan kid wrote:Kaberle would be a great idea if he wasn't sucking huge this year, but depending on cost might be worth a look. Something about Nathan Horton and the Sedins just seems right (though Bernier did to me too) and apparently he wants out.
Nathan Horton would be a fab addition, but it would cost the Canucks big and it would depend on Florida's asking price. Considering that they are already shopping around JBo, how much more of the farm do they want to sell off even if they do stink up the joint? Depends on if they want to trash the club and start anew but considering the talent they have just entering their prime, I would be surprised if they did it. Bouwmeester's only on the block because he seemingly wants out and is a UFA after this season. Who else in Florida fits that bill? Otherwise, I'd take him.

Problem with Kaberle is that we would start looking a lot like the Vancouver Maple Leaves (something akin to the Pope taking on satanists amongst his clergy IMHO), what with Sundin and Wellwood already here. Maybe they will all flourish in a new atmosphere and culture like Wellwood so far has, but I chalk his success to having a 'moment of career clarity' at the start of the season. Kaberle... I dunno... pass.

It's too early to tell, but a puck-moving Dman who can take a hit or two would be good. That said, a lot of other teams would like one too. How much is Gillis willing to pay? As for a top 6 forward, Gabby would be great but pricey and he seems like the kind of guy who will go at the deadline, and IMHO the deadline deals the past coupla years have been a sellers market. Better to go with what we have, get somebody like Josh Green or a Paul Ranger type and make the bigger splash in the Spring depending on how far the boys go.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:12 pm

From Farhan's list of possibles, only Kaberle is of any interest. Can we please drop the Shanahan idea? There's a reason none of the 30 teams in the league signed him. He can't skate nearly well enough to be effective in today's NHL.
Also, I don't think this is the Canucks' best chance to win a Cup. That season is still a few years away yet.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by the toucan kid » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:22 pm

You will have to elaborate on that one Sid? We have about three prospects in our system and could be on the verge of losing or overpaying for: our top goalie (can't overpay, could lose him), our inadequate top line and our top defense man. Couple that with aging players like Mitchell and Salo, you have Hodgson, Kesler, Burrows, Schneider (?), Edler, Bieksa and possibly the Sedins and Luongo. That doesn't scare anyone. We'll never have a chance to get this core at value or below, and have the room to add on again. This is not a team with a short term future, only the present.

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:43 pm

Sid Dithers wrote:From Farhan's list of possibles, only Kaberle is of any interest. Can we please drop the Shanahan idea? There's a reason none of the 30 teams in the league signed him. He can't skate nearly well enough to be effective in today's NHL.
Also, I don't think this is the Canucks' best chance to win a Cup. That season is still a few years away yet.
Few things:

1) A few years ago, 29 times passed on Jeremy Roenick...expect San Jose. When Roenick arrived in San Jose, the guy played his best hockey in years. I don't know how he's doing this year, but the guy was atleast good for that one season. You also have to keep in mind that up until recent, Shanahan was fully committed to playing with NYR. In my opinion -IF Shanahan can be used correctly, then he could be a very valuable addition (for the right price and ice time).

2) I completely and utterly disagree with the notion that the Canucks best chance to win a cup is a few years away....especially in light of the fact that the salary cap will be going down, combined with the fact that the Canucks may run into difficulty signing current players anyways. The Canucks may not be the "front runners" to win the cup this year, but I still think that they're the closest. If the Canucks can get something great for Raymond and a 1st, I'm pulling the trigger if I'm Gillis.

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:07 pm

the toucan kid wrote:You will have to elaborate on that one Sid? We have about three prospects in our system and could be on the verge of losing or overpaying for: our top goalie (can't overpay, could lose him), our inadequate top line and our top defense man. Couple that with aging players like Mitchell and Salo, you have Hodgson, Kesler, Burrows, Schneider (?), Edler, Bieksa and possibly the Sedins and Luongo. That doesn't scare anyone. We'll never have a chance to get this core at value or below, and have the room to add on again. This is not a team with a short term future, only the present.
Sundin added to the current group doesn't do it for me. Does anyone else notice a distinct lack of real playoff experience within this team? The Canucks currently have a decent group of players, and that makes the Canucks one of about 20 teams in that group. There's nothing special about this group to suggest they can get through 4 rounds of playoffs against teams who will for the most part be better than them and will almost certainly be more playoff-tested than them. The Canucks need more quality youth in their lineup to make a real push for contender status, and that is still a few years away.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:13 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
Sid Dithers wrote:From Farhan's list of possibles, only Kaberle is of any interest. Can we please drop the Shanahan idea? There's a reason none of the 30 teams in the league signed him. He can't skate nearly well enough to be effective in today's NHL.
Also, I don't think this is the Canucks' best chance to win a Cup. That season is still a few years away yet.
Few things:

1) A few years ago, 29 times passed on Jeremy Roenick...expect San Jose. When Roenick arrived in San Jose, the guy played his best hockey in years. I don't know how he's doing this year, but the guy was atleast good for that one season. You also have to keep in mind that up until recent, Shanahan was fully committed to playing with NYR. In my opinion -IF Shanahan can be used correctly, then he could be a very valuable addition (for the right price and ice time).
Farhan, there's always an exception. Roenick had a good year and helped the Sharks. It was a good fit. Would he have done that for any other team? Maybe, but not likely. The difference is that when he wants to, he can still skate well enough. The same can't be said about Shanahan.
Farhan Lalji wrote:2) I completely and utterly disagree with the notion that the Canucks best chance to win a cup is a few years away....especially in light of the fact that the salary cap will be going down, combined with the fact that the Canucks may run into difficulty signing current players anyways. The Canucks may not be the "front runners" to win the cup this year, but I still think that they're the closest.
Of course you disagree, you want to go for it all every year. You can't see past the end of the current season. Managing a team long-term (and it IS a long-term gig) means that you have to take very educated chances when it comes to picking up certain players at certain times. As mentioned, nobody seems too interested in Shanahan, and that's not a coincidence.
Farhan Lalji wrote:If the Canucks can get something great for Raymond and a 1st, I'm pulling the trigger if I'm Gillis.
It's not a question of 'getting something great'. If your intent is to win this year without regard for next year (and the years after), then you need to get the exact right player you need to finish off the recipe. Otherwise you're just acquiring attractive assets, which is something a GM is supposed to do when times are LEAN. If you want to 'go for it' you have to do it all the way. Is this the right time? I don't believe so, but that's just me.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:42 pm

Sid Dithers wrote: There's nothing special about this group to suggest they can get through 4 rounds of playoffs against teams who will for the most part be better than them and will almost certainly be more playoff-tested than them.
Few things:

1) I disagree with your statement that "there's nothing special about this group to suggest that they can get through 4 rounds of playoffs." Before Luongo's injury, the Canucks were about 7 or 8 games above .500....and counting. If/when Luongo comes back at 100% health, I don't see any reason why the Canucks can't go back to that level....and now we have Sundin as well.

2) With a superstar goalie (or a goalie that gets 'hot' and plays like a superstar), ANYTHING is possible. Vancouver 94', Washington 98', Buffalo 99', Carolina 02', Anaheim 03', Calgary 04', and Edmonton 06' are all great examples of this. When Colorado and Detroit won their cups in 96' and 97' respectively, those teams also didn't have many players that had tons of Stanley Cup experience (if at all).

3) I do not "want to go for it all" every year. Far from it. Last season - I pushed strongly for the Canucks to go after Forsberg because it would only cost us $$$$$. When the Brad Richards rumour came about at the trade deadline, I was actually quite vocal about my disdain for the package that Nonis had offerred (I was willing to part with Raymond and a 1st...as I would be this year....but I was NOT willing to part with Raymond, Schneider, a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd).

In 2005/06, I was also very displeased about our acquisitions of Weinreich, Carney, Brown, and Noronen.

Bottom line? I do not want to "go for it" every year. I simply want the Canucks to make that 'final push' when I sense that we have a decent chance (with the right pieces). I believe that the Canucks are in the position right now....if Luongo plays like he did earlier this season and if Sundin plays like he did last season.

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:03 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote:
Sid Dithers wrote: There's nothing special about this group to suggest they can get through 4 rounds of playoffs against teams who will for the most part be better than them and will almost certainly be more playoff-tested than them.
Few things:

1) I disagree with your statement that "there's nothing special about this group to suggest that they can get through 4 rounds of playoffs." Before Luongo's injury, the Canucks were about 7 or 8 games above .500....and counting. If/when Luongo comes back at 100% health, I don't see any reason why the Canucks can't go back to that level....and now we have Sundin as well.
BIG difference between winning games in November and winning games in April and May. I hope you're aware of that.
Farhan Lalji wrote:2) With a superstar goalie (or a goalie that gets 'hot' and plays like a superstar), ANYTHING is possible. Vancouver 94', Washington 98', Buffalo 99', Carolina 02', Anaheim 03', Calgary 04', and Edmonton 06' are all great examples of this. When Colorado and Detroit won their cups in 96' and 97' respectively, those teams also didn't have many players that had tons of Stanley Cup experience (if at all).
Anyone can sing the "If Our Goalie Gets Hot (anything can happen)" song. All 30 teams can sing that one.
Farhan Lalji wrote:3) I do not "want to go for it all" every year. Far from it. Last season - I pushed strongly for the Canucks to go after Forsberg because it would only cost us $$$$$. When the Brad Richards rumour came about at the trade deadline, I was actually quite vocal about my disdain for the package that Nonis had offerred (I was willing to part with Raymond and a 1st...as I would be this year....but I was NOT willing to part with Raymond, Schneider, a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd).

In 2005/06, I was also very displeased about our acquisitions of Weinreich, Carney, Brown, and Noronen.

Bottom line? I do not want to "go for it" every year. I simply want the Canucks to make that 'final push' when I sense that we have a decent chance (with the right pieces). I believe that the Canucks are in the position right now....if Luongo plays like he did earlier this season and if Sundin plays like he did last season.
In that case, good. Getting rentals at the trade deadline is a 99% losing proposition. The only time it works is when you're fortunate to hoist Stanley, otherwise, you lost equity. The Weinrich/Carney/Smolinski type trades were horrendous. Dumping second round picks mean you are dumping good, young players. Second and third-round picks are not to be dealt off like gift certificates. Check out Boston's or Chicago's rosters and then check to see where they are in the standings. And check out how young those teams are.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Madcombinepilot » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:15 pm

how can we decide who to go after before we have evaluated the on ice product we have?

putting the cart a bit before the horse here boys.

patience, young padawans.
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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:23 pm

BIG difference between winning games in November and winning games in April and May. I hope you're aware of that.
LOL - yes I am aware of that. Even with that being said however - there are usually some pretty good indications if a team is great or flat out sucks. In 05/06, it was obvious that this team had some chemistry and lockerroom issues right from the get-go....and this translated down the stretch. In 06/07 however - even though the team was only around .500, the team was working their butts off each and every night. Furthermore - the team was playing over .750 hockey when they had Mitchell, Ohlund, and Salo all in the line-up.....and this also translated down the stretch.

Let me put it this way: Before Luongo got injured, what didn't you like about this team?....or NOT be convinced that these guys could be a potentially dangerous threat come playoff time? (i.e. April/May).

Anyone can sing the "If Our Goalie Gets Hot (anything can happen)" song. All 30 teams can sing that one.
Disagree. Some goalies are legit. superstars (i.e. Luongo, Brodeur), while a few other goalies consistently raise their game come crunch time (i.e. Giguerre, Roloson, etc.). The vast majority of goalies however...

A) Do not significantly raise their game come crunch time...they usually stay around their usual level.
B) Do not have the ability to "carry" their team.

So no - I don't think it's fair to say that "all 30 teams" can sing that one. With Luongo at the helm, the Canucks have a HUGE advantage. During the WCE era, the Canucks lacked clutch goaltending. In 06/07, offense was our achilles heel. This year however, assuming 100% health, there is no reason to rule this team out as contenders.

Farhan Lalji

Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Farhan Lalji » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:26 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:how can we decide who to go after before we have evaluated the on ice product we have?

putting the cart a bit before the horse here boys.

patience, young padawans.
Agreed.

In my defense however, I'm on holidays and don't have much to do. :P

With that being said however, my post was built under the assumption that Gillis would go after someone eventually (after evaluating team). This is a reason why I listed a whole bunch of players in a wide variety of positions (as opposed to just saying, "Canucks should get Shanny!").

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Re: WHO should the Canucks get with their freed-up cap space?

Post by Sid Dithers » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:31 pm

Farhan Lalji wrote: Let me put it this way: Before Luongo got injured, what didn't you like about this team?....or NOT be convinced that these guys could be a potentially dangerous threat come playoff time? (i.e. April/May).
Forward depth. Top 6 forwards. The Canucks didn't have 6 of them. Even with Sundin, I still don't think they do. People are still trying to slot Demitra, Pyatt, Raymond, Bernier, Wellwood etc, into the top 6. If it remains quite unclear who your top 2 lines are, it generally means you don't have two adequate ones.
Anyone can sing the "If Our Goalie Gets Hot (anything can happen)" song. All 30 teams can sing that one.
Farhan Lalji wrote:Disagree. Some goalies are legit. superstars (i.e. Luongo, Brodeur), while a few other goalies consistently raise their game come crunch time (i.e. Giguerre, Roloson, etc.). The vast majority of goalies however...

A) Do not significantly raise their game come crunch time...they usually stay around their usual level.
B) Do not have the ability to "carry" their team.

So no - I don't think it's fair to say that "all 30 teams" can sing that one. With Luongo at the helm, the Canucks have a HUGE advantage. During the WCE era, the Canucks lacked clutch goaltending. In 06/07, offense was our achilles heel. This year however, assuming 100% health, there is no reason to rule this team out as contenders.
But you mentioned a bunch of teams that went to the finals and what was the common denominator? Their goalies all got hot. If it can happen to Roloson, Ward and Kiprusoff, it can happen to anyone. And of course, these are all guys who did it once, but couldn't repeat their feat in following years. Luongo SHOULD (based on his reputation) be a big-time playoff goalie, but he still needs to prove it. He's won one playoff series, he needs to solidify his resume in that area.
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