We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by rats19 »

5thhorseman wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:34 pm
rats19 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:12 pm
5thhorseman wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:09 pm
Micky wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:28 pm
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:11 pm I see on our local news here that 64% of BC residents would approve a service tax for unvaccinated users of the health care system.

That's ridiculous
Never going to happen, nor should it. That really surprises me. Doesn't seem reflective of BC thinking or general attitude.
I would guess that the same or higher % of BC residents approve of taxes on cigarettes.

Cigarette use also burdens the healthcare system.
As does alcohol
Drug use
Rock climbing
Skiing
Driving
Alcohol and drug use, sure.

The others you might go to the hospital for, but I wouldn't call it a burden.
Add them up 5th add the mutherfuckers up

Compound if you will..

Spend the billions on ventilators..more room stafffing…
Silence intelligence so stupid isn’t offended….
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by 5thhorseman »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:20 pm
rats19 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:12 pm Rock "climbing"
The Chef's list of preferred hobbies right there
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Chef dreams of big rocks.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by donlever »

Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:30 pm
donlever wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:11 pm
5thhorseman wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:09 pm
I would guess that the same or higher % of BC residents approve of taxes on cigarettes.

Cigarette use also burdens the healthcare system.
Fair point there....
Actually it's not.

When the numbers are saying that 4.6 per 100,000 cases will require hospitalization we are looking at 99.99+% of Covid sufferers will NOT be a burden on the system. Obviously those numbers are averaged and age dependent, but still.....

Contrast that to smokers.

20% of them will develop lung cancer. Some studies are showing that 50% of them will develop COPD by the time they hit retirement age.

That's a big difference.....and the fact is that we don't charge smokers extra money at the hospital or doctor's office. They pay it for the death sticks.

So what happens when Sally and Joe are struck by a drunk driver? The both have compound fractures of their LT femur and need surgery. Sally is vaxxed but Joe isn't. Neither of them have Covid and they both ended up at the hospital for the same reason because of the same drunk driver. Joe has to pay more?

Yeah. Not fair at all.

5th probably thinks it is though.
Actually the fair point I referred to was that the % of voters would be similar to the covid survey.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by 5thhorseman »

donlever wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:40 pm
Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:30 pm
donlever wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:11 pm
5thhorseman wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:09 pm
I would guess that the same or higher % of BC residents approve of taxes on cigarettes.

Cigarette use also burdens the healthcare system.
Fair point there....
Actually it's not.

When the numbers are saying that 4.6 per 100,000 cases will require hospitalization we are looking at 99.99+% of Covid sufferers will NOT be a burden on the system. Obviously those numbers are averaged and age dependent, but still.....

Contrast that to smokers.

20% of them will develop lung cancer. Some studies are showing that 50% of them will develop COPD by the time they hit retirement age.

That's a big difference.....and the fact is that we don't charge smokers extra money at the hospital or doctor's office. They pay it for the death sticks.

So what happens when Sally and Joe are struck by a drunk driver? The both have compound fractures of their LT femur and need surgery. Sally is vaxxed but Joe isn't. Neither of them have Covid and they both ended up at the hospital for the same reason because of the same drunk driver. Joe has to pay more?

Yeah. Not fair at all.

5th probably thinks it is though.
Actually the fair point I referred to was that the % of voters would be similar to the covid survey.
You mean Mëds wrote all that for nothing? :lol:
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by 2Fingers »

Mëds I am with you on some of your points and I’m tired of all the scare tactics BS from government and media. I am getting my booster shot because I believe that should I get COVID it will reduce my chance of requiring hospitalization and reduce the impact on me physically.

Do you not agree that the vaccine does reduce the impact? If no one received any vaccine at all would the hospitals not be overwhelmed and the death count significantly higher?
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Meds »

2Fingers wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:59 pm Mëds I am with you on some of your points and I’m tired of all the scare tactics BS from government and media. I am getting my booster shot because I believe that should I get COVID it will reduce my chance of requiring hospitalization and reduce the impact on me physically.

Do you not agree that the vaccine does reduce the impact? If no one received any vaccine at all would the hospitals not be overwhelmed and the death count significantly higher?
Hard to say. We went 1 year with Covid without vaccines. Honestly the numbers were fairly consistent throughout.

We're talking about a virus that was over 99% survivable under 60.

Even over 60 was in the 90 percentiles.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Per »

Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:11 pm
5thhorseman wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:04 pm
donlever wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:30 pm
Aaronp18 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:03 pm Having it and recovering from it should carry the same weight as being vaccinated.
...so I've been saying.
So what weight should it carry exactly? 1st dose only? Fully vaxxed? Or only half a dose perhaps?

You may have had covid once, but what was your viral load, and did it create sufficient antibodies?

I'd support what your saying, but only if it can be quantified via an antibody test.
Considering that Israel's studies (and others now) have proven that natural acquired immunity is 27 times better than vaccinated immunity, I'd say it should be exactly that, an immunity card.

You have to understand that it doesn't matter what your viral load was or how many antibodies you created. Your memory-B cells will make them very quickly as soon as your exposed again.

From the tone of most of your posts 5th it sounds to me like you want to live in a society where you have to get a needle every 6 months or so for every critter that comes along. Where does it end? Covid burns through us and enters an endemic stage where it's nothing more than a common cold that's always here. Then another virus that's just as bad or worse (or so they'll tell us) shows up and now there's a shot for that too.....and so it goes, until every month you are lining up for a vaccine on a revolving basis.

If it comes to that I suspect you'll see some pretty serious civil problems.
To be fair though, this is the worst pandemic since the Spanish flu.
If it happens once every hundred years, maybe we can live with restrictions for a limited time during those periods.
Just saying.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Per »

rats19 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:12 pm
5thhorseman wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:09 pm
Micky wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:28 pm
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:11 pm I see on our local news here that 64% of BC residents would approve a service tax for unvaccinated users of the health care system.

That's ridiculous
Never going to happen, nor should it. That really surprises me. Doesn't seem reflective of BC thinking or general attitude.
I would guess that the same or higher % of BC residents approve of taxes on cigarettes.

Cigarette use also burdens the healthcare system.
As does alcohol
Drug use
Rock climbing
Skiing
Driving
And all those, except rock climbing and skiing are taxed (or, depending on the drug, illegal).
And sports also carry health benefits, so that's not as clear cut as the others.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Per »

Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:19 pm The mask thing alone should be a massive wake up call for you. How many people were saying right off the hop that only fitted N95 masks are of any use. The powers that be tried to discredit those voices.....now they are saying that N95 masks are what we need and we should be using. They either don't have a clue what they are doing, which should scare the shit out of you, or they know exactly what they are doing with the constant changes and disinformation, and that should also scare the shit out of you.
This is why we never had any mask mandates in Sweden.

But I think it's not entirely black or white. Sure, only the real healthcare grade masks prevent spread, but the other crappy masks can still reduce spread, especially in the case of sneezing or coughing, as the viruses will not be projected into the room, but just become a cloud in your immediate viscinity, thus only infecting those standing next to you and not everyone in the room.

Pull your head out of the sand, dude.
Actually, burying your head in sand may be just as effective as wearing a N95 mask, albeit impairing mobility somewhat. :thumbs:
Last edited by Per on Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Per »

Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:30 pm
donlever wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:11 pm
5thhorseman wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:09 pm
I would guess that the same or higher % of BC residents approve of taxes on cigarettes.

Cigarette use also burdens the healthcare system.
Fair point there....
Actually it's not.

When the numbers are saying that 4.6 per 100,000 cases will require hospitalization we are looking at 99.99+% of Covid sufferers will NOT be a burden on the system. Obviously those numbers are averaged and age dependent, but still.....
Where did you find those numbers? :shock:
With the original strain and delta they said roughly 3% were hospitalized.

I have a hard time believing that omicron is a thousand times less serious.

Or are these figures for those that are vaxxed? If so, they are irrelevant to this question.

But sure, smoking is a far greater burden on the healthcare sector. It's more spread out over time though. This is concentrated in time and has caused many hospitals to be overwhelmed. Especially early on. Remember the horror stories from Italy, where they had to refuse treatment to many covid patients, and India that ran out of oxygen... :crazy:

Also, in a system where the government guarantees your pensions after you retire, smokers actually help cut costs in that sector... :look:

Edit: OK, checked it up. According to cdc.gov between Feb 2020 and Sep 2021 there were an estimated 146.6 million covid infections in the USA and 7.5 million hospitalizations due to covid. That would actually translate to 5.1%, which is even higher than the 3% I have heard.
In all fairness, I think the 3% figure related to Sweden, and obesity, which is a risk factor, is more widespread in the USA, so a slightly higher level of hospitalizations there should be expected.
There is also a question as to how accurate the estimated total infections figure is. Still, 146.6 million would mean that 42% of the US population had covid within this time frame, which doesn't seem to be an extremely low estimate. The number of hospitalizations, on the other hand ought to be reasonably easy to control, eventhough it can be exaggerated by patients showing up with a fractured leg and then testing positive, ie being hospitalized with covid rather than being hospitalized because of covid. In all fairness, these patients still put increased strain on the hospital as they have to be isolated and treated as contagious, and they ought to be in the minority.
But even if we assume everyone in the USA was infected, 7.5 million would be 2.1% of the entire population, or almost 500 times higher than the figure you proposed.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... urden.html
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by SKYO »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:20 pm
rats19 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:12 pm alcohol
Drug use
Rock "climbing"
"Skiing"
Driving
The Chef's list of preferred hobbies right there
:lol: snowblower hitting the slopes
Driving he a speed freak.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by 5thhorseman »

Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:11 pm Considering that Israel's studies (and others now) have proven that natural acquired immunity is 27 times better than vaccinated immunity, I'd say it should be exactly that, an immunity card.
I tried to find that Israeli study but could only find one
that said 13 times.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21262415v1

Also, it's a preprint so not yet peer-reviewed. Apparently only 10% of pre-prints in Medrxiv make it into peer-reviewed journals.

Covid has spurred the use of preprint servers and there's a lot of debate over whether that is a positive or not. Some say there's too much medical information being bandied about which may not be true.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Per »

Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:02 pm
We're talking about a virus that was over 99% survivable under 60.
And in a group of 10,000 people that means 100 people die. Most people would find that thought horrifying.

But you do you.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Meds »

Per wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:43 am
Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:19 pm The mask thing alone should be a massive wake up call for you. How many people were saying right off the hop that only fitted N95 masks are of any use. The powers that be tried to discredit those voices.....now they are saying that N95 masks are what we need and we should be using. They either don't have a clue what they are doing, which should scare the shit out of you, or they know exactly what they are doing with the constant changes and disinformation, and that should also scare the shit out of you.
This is why we never had any mask mandates in Sweden.

But I think it's not entirely black or white. Sure, only the real healthcare grade masks prevent spread, but the other crappy masks can still reduce spread, especially in the case of sneezing or coughing, as the viruses will not be projected into the room, but just become a cloud in your immediate viscinity, thus only infecting those standing next to you and not everyone in the room.

Pull your head out of the sand, dude.
Actually, burying your head in sand may be just as effective as wearing a N95 mask, albeit impairing mobility somewhat. :thumbs:
Per, go look at what happens to an airborne virus when it exits your mouth or nose and interacts with atmospheric gasses. It doesn’t have the molecular weight to fall in a 6 foot cloud around you. It stay airborne and does exactly what you said it won’t, it finds its way around the room.

It also travels right through the surgical face masks.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Meds »

Per wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:33 am
Mëds wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:02 pm
We're talking about a virus that was over 99% survivable under 60.
And in a group of 10,000 people that means 100 people die. Most people would find that thought horrifying.

But you do you.
There are more dangerous things out there than 99% survivable Covid, and we live with them daily. Take driving for instance….
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