US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Meds »

SKYO wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:48 pm
Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:13 am
ukcanuck wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:03 am If labour were free to move to where the pay is greater you would have a point but people cannot cross borders freely. Money crosses borders, jobs cross borders, corporations cross borders. People cannot. The governor of Texas agrees

But the big flaw in your position in my opinion is that you count labour as a business cost. Human as capital flies in the face of the central tenant of free enterprise.

A free transaction between two free individuals.

If the option for labour is submit to indentured servitude or starve then taking a job at Walmart or working as an Uber driver to make ends meet is not a free transaction by two free actors
Wrong

People can a do cross borders for work. You and I have done so. My wife has. My grandparents did.

The mechanisms are in place for legal movement of labour.

BC has a temporary foreign worker program simply because Canadians feel the work is too difficult for them and hence labour is imported.
For Temporary Foreign Workers, isn't that just slave labour for the businesses up here to pay them cheap wages with no vacation/holiday pay, and not give a shit about their working conditions.
It would certainly border on that definition at times SKYO.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

Meds wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:57 pm ;)
I'm glad you added that at the end... cuz damn!
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Meds »

Strangelove wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:09 pm
Meds wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:57 pm ;)
I'm glad you added that at the end... cuz damn!
:lol:
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Topper »

SKYO wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:48 pm
Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:13 am
ukcanuck wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:03 am If labour were free to move to where the pay is greater you would have a point but people cannot cross borders freely. Money crosses borders, jobs cross borders, corporations cross borders. People cannot. The governor of Texas agrees

But the big flaw in your position in my opinion is that you count labour as a business cost. Human as capital flies in the face of the central tenant of free enterprise.

A free transaction between two free individuals.

If the option for labour is submit to indentured servitude or starve then taking a job at Walmart or working as an Uber driver to make ends meet is not a free transaction by two free actors
Wrong

People can a do cross borders for work. You and I have done so. My wife has. My grandparents did.

The mechanisms are in place for legal movement of labour.

BC has a temporary foreign worker program simply because Canadians feel the work is too difficult for them and hence labour is imported.
For Temporary Foreign Workers, isn't that just slave labour for the businesses up here to pay them cheap wages with no vacation/holiday pay, and not give a shit about their working conditions.
My wife used to have a part time gig with a couple of local farms getting the workers settled, showing them around town, explaining our grocery stores, banking, post office stuff to them and then every once in a while be called to translate for them. One place treated the worker well with decent living conditions, pay is predetermined and approved within the program and is still governed by Canadian Law.

They work damn hard, 6 day weeks from late February to mid November. We used to invite them over every once in a while for a Sunday home cooked meal and load up one of my wife's Spanish language movies. Good guys. They go a long haul without seeing family but after a couple of years, they have a decent home and maybe on their way to getting a vehicle. A lot like Newfies in the oil patch if they don't pour their pay through their liver.

The same work they do used to be done by local labourers and high school kids in the summer. Remember my older siblings hitching rides to the berry farms in the Fraser Valley for summer berry picking work. If you really wanted, they had shacks you could stay in. These guys have far better conditions and pay than those days. Hell, early tree planter camps of Volksy vans were better than Fraser Valley kids got berry picking.

If our brats weren't so spoiled and afraid of hard work, we wouldn't need to import foreign workers.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Topper »

Meds wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:00 pm
Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:13 am
ukcanuck wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:03 am
Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:46 am
ukcanuck wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:23 am
Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:59 am
Per wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:51 am
Topper wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:13 am US now pushing for a global minimum corporate tax.

The fail to recognize that corporate taxis are simply a cost of doing business. No different than labour costs, energy costs, raw material costs. These costs are passed along to the consumer.

They are not shifting the burden of taxes from the consumer to corporations.
That's not the issue here though. The global minimum corporate tax is to prevent companies moving their head offices to wherever the tax is the lowest. It's about keeping companies, jobs and tax revenue at home.
So it is a protectionist measure about removing competition from foreign countries
More like cities getting together to prevent Bettman from holding them hostage with threats of moving franchises for better corporate handouts.

Protectionism works, ask the NHLPA about the salary cap.
Ask Venezuela

It sounds more like economic colonialism.

Taxes act as both an incentive and disincentive and are implemented with those intents. Does BC have a film industry without tax concessions? What is the intent of the taxes on carbon dioxide?

For years the idea of an educated and mobile workforce lead to people moving to where there is greater opportunity. Why limit that freedom for businesses? Look at the exodus of businesses from California to states with friendlier tax regimes. How many people stay in ungodly Alberta because of lower taxes? State boundaries/Provincial boundaries/Nation boundaries. They set set their rules, go where it best suits you.
If labour were free to move to where the pay is greater you would have a point but people cannot cross borders freely. Money crosses borders, jobs cross borders, corporations cross borders. People cannot. The governor of Texas agrees

But the big flaw in your position in my opinion is that you count labour as a business cost. Human as capital flies in the face of the central tenant of free enterprise.

A free transaction between two free individuals.

If the option for labour is submit to indentured servitude or starve then taking a job at Walmart or working as an Uber driver to make ends meet is not a free transaction by two free actors
Wrong

People can a do cross borders for work. You and I have done so. My wife has. My grandparents did.

The mechanisms are in place for legal movement of labour.

BC has a temporary foreign worker program simply because Canadians feel the work is too difficult for them and hence labour is imported.
The flaw in this is the equitability of it. You are right that people can cross borders for work, however it is far far far more difficult for people to cross international borders than it is for a corporation where the receiving country is welcoming the influx of jobs and money with open arms.

Companies up and relocate to countries where the labour is far cheaper, although they try and sell it as going somewhere because of taxation (it sounds better to blame it on the government). This results in decent paying jobs leaving the country, and even if the employees of said corporations could follow with the company, they would have to settle for a much lower wage and quality of life.

It's not as easy as you make it sound Tops, not by a long shot.
It is not as easy as registering a company and sitting the corporate seal at a legal firms office to relocate a company.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Meds »

Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:21 pm It is not as easy as registering a company and sitting the corporate seal at a legal firms office to relocate a company.
No, no, of course it's not. I realize that. However there are ways these things are fast tracked, similar to worker movement when it involves the skilled worker pathway with immigration. Also, usually the process is a good ways along by the time public announcement comes out about a corporate move.

I just was speaking to the plight of the general "unskilled" labourers.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Meds »

Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:18 pm If our brats weren't so spoiled and afraid of hard work, we wouldn't need to import foreign workers.
Bang on.

I believe the proper term is: Entitled Millennial. :lol:
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Cornuck »

Meds wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:33 pm
Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:18 pm If our brats weren't so spoiled and afraid of hard work, we wouldn't need to import foreign workers.
Bang on.

I believe the proper term is: Entitled Millennial. :lol:
I'm sure our parents and grandparents said the same thing about us. "Damned kids don't wanna go down the coal shaft"
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Cousin Strawberry »



Bend and stoop like the Mexicans
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Meds »

Cornuck wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:57 pm
Meds wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:33 pm
Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:18 pm If our brats weren't so spoiled and afraid of hard work, we wouldn't need to import foreign workers.
Bang on.

I believe the proper term is: Entitled Millennial. :lol:
I'm sure our parents and grandparents said the same thing about us. "Damned kids don't wanna go down the coal shaft"
Well, I think there's a big difference between not wanting to go do a job that guarantees you lung disease of some sort and a reduced quality of life IF you even live long enough, versus a job that is as safe as can be made but requires some physical effort. :lol:

But you aren't wrong. They definitely said something along those lines.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:59 am
Per wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:51 am
Topper wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:13 am US now pushing for a global minimum corporate tax.

The fail to recognize that corporate taxis are simply a cost of doing business. No different than labour costs, energy costs, raw material costs. These costs are passed along to the consumer.

They are not shifting the burden of taxes from the consumer to corporations.
That's not the issue here though. The global minimum corporate tax is to prevent companies moving their head offices to wherever the tax is the lowest. It's about keeping companies, jobs and tax revenue at home.
So it is a protectionist measure about removing competition from foreign countries
That's one way of seeing it. Proponents would instead stress the creation of a level playing field.

A field case could be corporate taxes within the EU. When Ireland join they decided to scrap corporate taxes, which quickly lead to them becoming the main stepping stone for American companies creating EU subsidiaries. Combined with its position at the far west of Europe, low wages and an English speaking population, the no taxation policy became a strong magnet. And as it lies within the EU, you then have no tariffs, quotas or other obstacles doing business throughout the EU27. This will of course now also attract a lot of British companies, so that they can continue to do business within the EU.

This lead to an enormous success story, Ireland has in a reasonably short time gone from being one of the poorest countries in Europe to being in the top quarter. This success story has however lead to grumbling among other EU members and eventually the no corporate tax option has been removed. Which of course is even better for Ireland! Now they get to tax these companies and no other EU country can steal their old no tax position. :thumbs:

Corporate taxes are still not fully harmonized though and vary between 9% (Hungary) and 32% (France).

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by ukcanuck »

Meds wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:57 pm
Strangelove wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:10 pm FFS you likened Israel to Nazi Germany in one of those!

The most antisemitic thing ever!
Do better Doc. That's not even entry level trolling there.

If Israel is indeed implementing measures that are similar to what Nazi Germany put in place in its persecution of the Jews, then they are becoming like that which they hated.

The United States hated and opposed communism. They are on a one way track towards that very same style of oppressive, controlling, jack-boot, government right now.

That statement is not anti-USA, it's anti-communist in nature and pointing out a comparative.

;)
Doc is trying to accuse me of a truly antisemetic and horrific comparison of the Waffen SS and the IDF.

But If doc had not been high that day in highschool, he would know that The extermination camps, the final solution was decided upon in 1942 at the Wannsee conference. This conference is generally regarded as the point in which concentration camps became extermination camps and the Germans began mass murdering Jews in occupied territories on a factory scale.

I was referring to the decade before that when Germany began going down the slippery slope from discrimination to genocide. In those years before simple thoughts of racism morphed into what we know now as the Holocaust.

Before the Wannsee conference, Germany’s list of antisemitic acts grew by degree but no one said anything. No one objected to disenfranchisement and the removal of rights, the gentrification and relocation of communities.

That’s the comparison the slippery slope argument. It’s not accusing Jews of engaging in a Holocaust of their own it. It’s pointing out the dangers in building walls. It’s the same danger in trumps zero tolerance policies and his dumbass wall.

It is my fault though, considering strangelove’s body of contributions over the years I should not be surprised that he would jump to twist critical analysis into ad hominem rants.
Last edited by ukcanuck on Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Topper »

Per wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:31 am
Topper wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:59 am
Per wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:51 am
Topper wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:13 am US now pushing for a global minimum corporate tax.

The fail to recognize that corporate taxis are simply a cost of doing business. No different than labour costs, energy costs, raw material costs. These costs are passed along to the consumer.

They are not shifting the burden of taxes from the consumer to corporations.
That's not the issue here though. The global minimum corporate tax is to prevent companies moving their head offices to wherever the tax is the lowest. It's about keeping companies, jobs and tax revenue at home.
So it is a protectionist measure about removing competition from foreign countries
That's one way of seeing it. Proponents would instead stress the creation of a level playing field.

A field case could be corporate taxes within the EU. When Ireland join they decided to scrap corporate taxes, which quickly lead to them becoming the main stepping stone for American companies creating EU subsidiaries. Combined with its position at the far west of Europe, low wages and an English speaking population, the no taxation policy became a strong magnet. And as it lies within the EU, you then have no tariffs, quotas or other obstacles doing business throughout the EU27. This will of course now also attract a lot of British companies, so that they can continue to do business within the EU.

This lead to an enormous success story, Ireland has in a reasonably short time gone from being one of the poorest countries in Europe to being in the top quarter. This success story has however lead to grumbling among other EU members and eventually the no corporate tax option has been removed. Which of course is even better for Ireland! Now they get to tax these companies and no other EU country can steal their old no tax position. :thumbs:

Corporate taxes are still not fully harmonized though and vary between 9% (Hungary) and 32% (France).

Image
A good article about it this morning. Strong thoughts that corporate taxes should be zero.

Also outlines that guts of Yellen's proposal is for extraterritorial taxation.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/colby- ... porate-tax
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by ukcanuck »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:56 pm

Bend and stoop like the Mexicans
What’s even funnier is the reference to United Fruit. United fruit was a dummy corporation for CIA operations in Central America during the 50s and 60s.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

ukcanuck wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:16 am Doc is trying to accuse me of a truly antisemetic and horrific comparison of the Waffen SS and the IDF.

But If doc had not been high that day in highschool, he would know that The extermination camps, the final solution was decided upon in 1942 at the Wannsee conference. This conference is generally regarded as the point in which concentration camps became extermination camps and the Germans began mass murdering Jews in occupied territories on a factory scale.

I was referring to the decade before that when Germany began going down the slippery slope from discrimination to genocide. In those years before simple thoughts of racism morphed into what we know now as the Holocaust.

Before the Wannsee conference, Germany’s list of antisemitic acts grew by degree but no one said anything. No one objected to disenfranchisement and the removal of rights, the gentrification and relocation of communities.

That’s the comparison the slippery slope argument. It’s not accusing Jews of engaging in a Holocaust of their own it.
1. No one accused you of "accusing Jews of engaging in a Holocaust of their own".

2. You don't have to accuse the Jews of engaging in a Holocaust of their own... to be an antisemite.

3. You never said anything about the Waffen or a slippery slope in the post in question.

(entire comment: "Notice any similarities between these people and certain nazi country in the 1930s")

4. Saying Israel may be headed down a slippery slope like the Waffen towards genocide... is antisemitic.

(so you're being antisemitic again in this post)

5. The comment in question was just one out of dozens of antisemitic comments by you as pointed out by me.

6. Just stop.

ukcanuck wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:16 am It is my fault though, considering strangelove’s body of contributions over the years I should not be surprised that he would jump to twist critical analysis into ad hominem rants.
There is only one person in this conversation doing any twisting and that person my friend is you.



https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/comparin ... -1.5390963

“Comparing Israel to Nazis Is anti-Semitic, Says International Body IHRA”
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