Home Construction Discussion

[Cousin Strawberry]

These SIP panels are gaining traction. Bolting together the whole structure in a week and the 5.5" thick pieces have an R22 value.

I think they can be used as flooring and roof panels even. Lego houses

We will be doing our first two SIP panel builds this year, one in Vancouver and one in Richmond. Gonna be interesting. They have structural limits for floors and roofs. More common in roofs but do need supporting on decent spans. Floors need structural framing to support, I forget the spacing

I'd be interested in whether the foam shit in the middle emits any toxins over time. Probably no more than the spray in foam insulation

[Chef Boi RD]

These SIP panels are gaining traction. Bolting together the whole structure in a week and the 5.5" thick pieces have an R22 value.

I think they can be used as flooring and roof panels even. Lego houses

We will be doing our first two SIP panel builds this year, one in Vancouver and one in Richmond. Gonna be interesting. They have structural limits for floors and roofs. More common in roofs but do need supporting on decent spans. Floors need structural framing to support, I forget the spacing

I'd be interested in whether the foam shit in the middle emits any toxins over time. Probably no more than the spray in foam insulation

I believe not, SIP panel white foam is cured and sprayed properly in a controlled environment. The sprayed on site foam is way more problematic and it’s why some municipalities have banned. A lot of installers are not following proper procedures installing it. They are not allowing the first coat to cure enough by the time they are doing the second coat. So the middle is never cured. The off gassing and fishy smell never goes away if not installed properly. Have you seen spray foam guys? They are drunks and crackheads

[Topper]

I've got what was once a covered deck open to the carport that the previous owner and builder of the house enclosed as a boot/sun room. I've been thinking of spray foam in the floor but have little confidences in it. Maybe I'll see how much rock wool I can stuff on there but I suspect that is what is already in there. It's the only part of our place that is cold.

[Cousin Strawberry]

That spray-in crap fish stank is gross. I didnt know that was from how it was installed....shitty for whoever has it.

[Chef Boi RD]

That spray-in crap fish stank is gross. I didnt know that was from how it was installed....shitty for whoever has it.

Two kinds of spray foam - 1/2 pound and 2 pound. Closed cell 2 pound has a higher r value per thickness and has a built in vapour barrier. It’s as hard as rock. 1/2 pound is an open cell and is softer, you can tear out chunks with your hand. You have to spray paint the vapour barrier on 1/2 pound after. To get similar r value to 1/2 pound you have to pretty much double the thickness compared to two pound


Installers are notorious for not properly pre mixing the chemicals, spraying the first run too thick and not letting the first run cure before applying 2nd layer.

Inspectors don’t like spray foam in roofs, especially 2 pound because if there is a leak in the roof you won’t know it. Water just pools on top of insulation whereas batt insulation the water will soak through and show in drywall. Your roof could be rotting and you won’t know it

Spray foam is a great option if you can’t properly vent a roof like non attic roof like a vaulted ceiling

[Cousin Strawberry]

They are all crackhead looking dudes arent they....funny that i hadnt noticed that before.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Yeah your jobs sound like they are all up to code Chef.

Any plans to remove the Asbestos in the walls or just leave it alone?

[Chef Boi RD]

Asbestos removal on every job. It’s so heavily regulated, there’s no escaping it. There is no such thing as an old house containing no asbestos

[BCExpat]

That spray-in crap fish stank is gross. I didnt know that was from how it was installed....shitty for whoever has it.

Two kinds of spray foam - 1/2 pound and 2 pound. Closed cell 2 pound has a higher r value per thickness and has a built in vapour barrier. It’s as hard as rock. 1/2 pound is an open cell and is softer, you can tear out chunks with your hand. You have to spray paint the vapour barrier on 1/2 pound after. To get similar r value to 1/2 pound you have to pretty much double the thickness compared to two pound


Installers are notorious for not properly pre mixing the chemicals, spraying the first run too thick and not letting the first run cure before applying 2nd layer.

Inspectors don’t like spray foam in roofs, especially 2 pound because if there is a leak in the roof you won’t know it. Water just pools on top of insulation whereas batt insulation the water will soak through and show in drywall. Your roof could be rotting and you won’t know it

Spray foam is a great option if you can’t properly vent a roof like non attic roof like a vaulted ceiling

All urethane foam insulation off-gasses. Usually it happens within the first few months after fabrication or installation. That is why the initial RSI value is higher when it is first fabricated as a sheet or first applied as a spray foam - the gas trapped within the insulation actually helps increase the RSI value. When I specify Polyisocyanurate insulation (a type of high performance foam insulation) for commercial flat roofs, I always make sure that the insulation has been aged for at least 3 months after fabrication. I don't want any of the off-gas coming out in a sealed roof where you have an air/vapour barrier under the insulation and a water tight (and air tight) roof membrane is installed above. The gas could cause some problems with the roof membranes, although many of the roof membranes these days are flexible enough to handle the extra stress.

Also, 1/2 lb. density polyurethane and 2 lb. density polyurethane are used for 2 different purposes and shouldn't be interchangeable. 1/2 lb density polyurethane insulation is meant to be used around penetrations such as around door and window frames. Now days, it is usually low expansion, so it doesn't distort the door and window frames when it is applied between the frames and the adjacent construction. It shouldn't be used to insulate a whole wall. 2 lb density polyurethane insulation is the correct material to be used for a whole wall for example. 2 lb density on the other hand should not be used around door and window frames as it expands and can cause the frames to distort, putting undue pressure on the glazing and may be detrimental to the operation of the doors and operable windows (such as hoppers, casements, awnings and sliders).

On the projects I work on, whenever I specify sprayed urethane insulation, I make sure that the installing contractor was a member of CUFCA (Canadian Urethane Foam Contractor's Association), and that their applicators were certified by CUFCA (so even if they were crack addicts, at least they were trained foam installers). Also, I would have the installed material tested (ie - one test for every 1000 sf of installation), for density and thickness to ensure that we wouldn't have some of the problems that you mentioned. I"m not saying this would cure every bad installation, but it would go a long way to make sure that it is done right.

[BCExpat]

I've got what was once a covered deck open to the carport that the previous owner and builder of the house enclosed as a boot/sun room. I've been thinking of spray foam in the floor but have little confidences in it. Maybe I'll see how much rock wool I can stuff on there but I suspect that is what is already in there. It's the only part of our place that is cold.

The thing is, if you just stuff the floor space with some sort of batt insulation, then you won't have a proper vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation on the underside of your floor sheathing. This is an ideal application for sprayed foam insulation, as it would give you both a vapour barrier and a thermal barrier.

[BCExpat]

Just finished my outdoor bar next to the fire pit. Too bad the willow trees behind it died - have to replace them in the fall.

[Cousin Strawberry]

That wicked cool BCEP.

[Cornuck]

Just finished my outdoor bar next to the fire pit. Too bad the willow trees behind it died - have to replace them in the fall.

Missing a Canucks flag, but otherwise looks great!

[BCExpat]

Just finished my outdoor bar next to the fire pit. Too bad the willow trees behind it died - have to replace them in the fall.

Missing a Canucks flag, but otherwise looks great!

I didn't put a flames flag on it either.

[Chef Boi RD]

I've got what was once a covered deck open to the carport that the previous owner and builder of the house enclosed as a boot/sun room. I've been thinking of spray foam in the floor but have little confidences in it. Maybe I'll see how much rock wool I can stuff on there but I suspect that is what is already in there. It's the only part of our place that is cold.

The thing is, if you just stuff the floor space with some sort of batt insulation, then you won't have a proper vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation on the underside of your floor sheathing. This is an ideal application for sprayed foam insulation, as it would give you both a vapour barrier and a thermal barrier.

The city of Vancouver has pretty much outlawed spray foam insulation even on new builds. They don’t want it and for a myriad of reasons, not just one. The other municipalities still accept but are slowly adapting the COV’s approach to it. To be honest we avoid it as much as possible. We will use it “in other municipalities outside of the COV” in renovation situations where we are struggling to get proper venting in existing ceiling or floor assemblies or if we break the “grandfather code” on assemblies and the jobs Bldg inspector makes us bring the assembly to code.

In 2x4 exterior walls on older homes required to be upgraded to R-20 (2x6), we will spray foam with 2 lb insulation to avoid furring out the existing 2x4 exterior wall assembly to 2x6 - done with pre-ripped 2” lumber nailed to face of existing exterior studs losing 2” of space. 2 lb is not recommend in ceiling cavities due to its resistance to water absorption, if there is a leak the water will just pool on top rotting out the ceiling assembly, you won’t know there’s a leak. 1/2 lb is preferred as it’s an open cell foam and leaks will show up in the drywall.

Other reasons spray foam is not accepted is the city doesn’t trust the installers to mix and apply properly and since the city signs off on insulation inspection the city is on the hook for the liability of improperly installed spray foam. It’s all about liability now.

Like I said, we avoid it now and only use it if no other options are available. It’s getting harder and harder to use it in Vancouver on “permitted” builds.