Home Construction Discussion

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Cornuck
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by Cornuck »

BCExpat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:33 am
Just finished my outdoor bar next to the fire pit. Too bad the willow trees behind it died - have to replace them in the fall.
Missing a Canucks flag, but otherwise looks great! :D
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by BCExpat »

Cornuck wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:52 am
BCExpat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:33 am
Just finished my outdoor bar next to the fire pit. Too bad the willow trees behind it died - have to replace them in the fall.
Missing a Canucks flag, but otherwise looks great! :D
I didn't put a flames flag on it either.
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

BCExpat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:08 pm
Topper wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
I've got what was once a covered deck open to the carport that the previous owner and builder of the house enclosed as a boot/sun room. I've been thinking of spray foam in the floor but have little confidences in it. Maybe I'll see how much rock wool I can stuff on there but I suspect that is what is already in there. It's the only part of our place that is cold.
The thing is, if you just stuff the floor space with some sort of batt insulation, then you won't have a proper vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation on the underside of your floor sheathing. This is an ideal application for sprayed foam insulation, as it would give you both a vapour barrier and a thermal barrier.
The city of Vancouver has pretty much outlawed spray foam insulation even on new builds. They don’t want it and for a myriad of reasons, not just one. The other municipalities still accept but are slowly adapting the COV’s approach to it. To be honest we avoid it as much as possible. We will use it “in other municipalities outside of the COV” in renovation situations where we are struggling to get proper venting in existing ceiling or floor assemblies or if we break the “grandfather code” on assemblies and the jobs Bldg inspector makes us bring the assembly to code.

In 2x4 exterior walls on older homes required to be upgraded to R-20 (2x6), we will spray foam with 2 lb insulation to avoid furring out the existing 2x4 exterior wall assembly to 2x6 - done with pre-ripped 2” lumber nailed to face of existing exterior studs losing 2” of space. 2 lb is not recommend in ceiling cavities due to its resistance to water absorption, if there is a leak the water will just pool on top rotting out the ceiling assembly, you won’t know there’s a leak. 1/2 lb is preferred as it’s an open cell foam and leaks will show up in the drywall.

Other reasons spray foam is not accepted is the city doesn’t trust the installers to mix and apply properly and since the city signs off on insulation inspection the city is on the hook for the liability of improperly installed spray foam. It’s all about liability now.

Like I said, we avoid it now and only use it if no other options are available. It’s getting harder and harder to use it in Vancouver on “permitted” builds.
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

BCExpat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:08 pm
Topper wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
I've got what was once a covered deck open to the carport that the previous owner and builder of the house enclosed as a boot/sun room. I've been thinking of spray foam in the floor but have little confidences in it. Maybe I'll see how much rock wool I can stuff on there but I suspect that is what is already in there. It's the only part of our place that is cold.
The thing is, if you just stuff the floor space with some sort of batt insulation, then you won't have a proper vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation on the underside of your floor sheathing. This is an ideal application for sprayed foam insulation, as it would give you both a vapour barrier and a thermal barrier.
Interior Floor assemblies that are open to the Elements below like a conditioned space ( living room for example) over an open carport below we in Vancouver are not required to install a vapour barrier in this situation, and yes if you do it has to be on the warm side of insulation always. We run in to it all the time when opening up carport ceilings in renovations, but it’s rarely done in Vancouver and not required. If it’s desired it can be achieved by painting the subfloor with a vapour barrier paint.
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by Strangelove »

It's just that easy folks!
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by The Brown Wizard »

Its like listening in on the next booth over at Dennys
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by BCExpat »

Chef Boi RD wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:14 pm
BCExpat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:08 pm
Topper wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
I've got what was once a covered deck open to the carport that the previous owner and builder of the house enclosed as a boot/sun room. I've been thinking of spray foam in the floor but have little confidences in it. Maybe I'll see how much rock wool I can stuff on there but I suspect that is what is already in there. It's the only part of our place that is cold.
The thing is, if you just stuff the floor space with some sort of batt insulation, then you won't have a proper vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation on the underside of your floor sheathing. This is an ideal application for sprayed foam insulation, as it would give you both a vapour barrier and a thermal barrier.
The city of Vancouver has pretty much outlawed spray foam insulation even on new builds. They don’t want it and for a myriad of reasons, not just one. The other municipalities still accept but are slowly adapting the COV’s approach to it. To be honest we avoid it as much as possible. We will use it “in other municipalities outside of the COV” in renovation situations where we are struggling to get proper venting in existing ceiling or floor assemblies or if we break the “grandfather code” on assemblies and the jobs Bldg inspector makes us bring the assembly to code.

In 2x4 exterior walls on older homes required to be upgraded to R-20 (2x6), we will spray foam with 2 lb insulation to avoid furring out the existing 2x4 exterior wall assembly to 2x6 - done with pre-ripped 2” lumber nailed to face of existing exterior studs losing 2” of space. 2 lb is not recommend in ceiling cavities due to its resistance to water absorption, if there is a leak the water will just pool on top rotting out the ceiling assembly, you won’t know there’s a leak. 1/2 lb is preferred as it’s an open cell foam and leaks will show up in the drywall.

Other reasons spray foam is not accepted is the city doesn’t trust the installers to mix and apply properly and since the city signs off on insulation inspection the city is on the hook for the liability of improperly installed spray foam. It’s all about liability now.

Like I said, we avoid it now and only use it if no other options are available. It’s getting harder and harder to use it in Vancouver on “permitted” builds.
This is why I always specify CUFCA (Canadian Urethane Foam Contractor's Association) testing and inspection on any job that I'm working on, with spray foam insulation. I specify that the Contractor has to be a CUFCA member and that all the installers are required to be trained and licensed by CUFCA. Then you don't have any problems as CUFCA takes the responsibility for the installation and guarantees it (similar to what the Roofing Contractor's Association of British Columbia does with commercial roofing). The liability is never with anyone else including the City. I know this is also true in Vancouver as I have done a lot of projects there as well as here in Alberta. Most reputable urethane foam manufacturers will not sell their product to untrained and unlicensed contractors and installers. If you are working on projects that have an Architect or an Engineer on them, who is competent enough to properly specify urethane foam insulation and enforce the specification on site, then you won't have any problems. It sound's like you have had some fly by night outfits installing foam insulation, which is bad for the overall trade. That's why organizations like CUFCA are trying to eliminate these problems.

I'm not saying that spray foam insulation is the answer to all insulating problems, but they do have their place as long as the proper materials are used and installed properly.
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

That’s a pretty sweet bar Expat. What was the final price tag on it?
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by BCExpat »

Doyle Hargraves wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
That’s a pretty sweet bar Expat. What was the final price tag on it?
I used pressure treated lumber for everything except for the bar tops and the cedar shingles. The roof deck was also pressure treated 1x6, as the underside is exposed and I didn't want to be looking up at OSB or plywood. The total cost was about $1300.00.
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

BCExpat wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:45 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
That’s a pretty sweet bar Expat. What was the final price tag on it?
I used pressure treated lumber for everything except for the bar tops and the cedar shingles. The roof deck was also pressure treated 1x6, as the underside is exposed and I didn't want to be looking up at OSB or plywood. The total cost was about $1300.00.
Pretty reasonable. That’s something I might be interested in doing up here at the summer home. I might go with a tin roof though. Winters get pretty nasty up here. I drove five hours to get away from the rain and it’s pissing here apparently till Friday. I can’t remember a worse June than the one we’ve had this year. The back half of May was terrible too.
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by BCExpat »

Doyle Hargraves wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:37 am
BCExpat wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:45 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
That’s a pretty sweet bar Expat. What was the final price tag on it?
I used pressure treated lumber for everything except for the bar tops and the cedar shingles. The roof deck was also pressure treated 1x6, as the underside is exposed and I didn't want to be looking up at OSB or plywood. The total cost was about $1300.00.
Pretty reasonable. That’s something I might be interested in doing up here at the summer home. I might go with a tin roof though. Winters get pretty nasty up here. I drove five hours to get away from the rain and it’s pissing here apparently till Friday. I can’t remember a worse June than the one we’ve had this year. The back half of May was terrible too.
It's pissing down here too, but we could use the moisture. I put roll roofing on the wood deck and ran it right up over top of the upper wall, so it is completely waterproof. The cedar shingles and wood siding are just decorative. A metal roof would work too.
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

BCExpat wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:45 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
That’s a pretty sweet bar Expat. What was the final price tag on it?
I used pressure treated lumber for everything except for the bar tops and the cedar shingles. The roof deck was also pressure treated 1x6, as the underside is exposed and I didn't want to be looking up at OSB or plywood. The total cost was about $1300.00.
Did you treat all your cuts on the pressure treated lumber and were all your fasteners hot dip galvanized or ACQ rated? Chef needs to know.
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by The Brown Wizard »

Chef Boi RD wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:12 am
BCExpat wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:45 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
That’s a pretty sweet bar Expat. What was the final price tag on it?
I used pressure treated lumber for everything except for the bar tops and the cedar shingles. The roof deck was also pressure treated 1x6, as the underside is exposed and I didn't want to be looking up at OSB or plywood. The total cost was about $1300.00.
Did you treat all your cuts on the pressure treated lumber and were all your fasteners hot dip galvanized or ACQ rated? Chef needs to know.
Its alberta chef. PT lumber lasts twice as long here as the coast. You wouldnt believe it but its legal to use treated lumber below grade as a foundation in Alberta. I've never heard of that
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by Chef Boi RD »

BCExpat wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:14 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:14 pm
BCExpat wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:08 pm
Topper wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:38 pm
I've got what was once a covered deck open to the carport that the previous owner and builder of the house enclosed as a boot/sun room. I've been thinking of spray foam in the floor but have little confidences in it. Maybe I'll see how much rock wool I can stuff on there but I suspect that is what is already in there. It's the only part of our place that is cold.
The thing is, if you just stuff the floor space with some sort of batt insulation, then you won't have a proper vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation on the underside of your floor sheathing. This is an ideal application for sprayed foam insulation, as it would give you both a vapour barrier and a thermal barrier.
The city of Vancouver has pretty much outlawed spray foam insulation even on new builds. They don’t want it and for a myriad of reasons, not just one. The other municipalities still accept but are slowly adapting the COV’s approach to it. To be honest we avoid it as much as possible. We will use it “in other municipalities outside of the COV” in renovation situations where we are struggling to get proper venting in existing ceiling or floor assemblies or if we break the “grandfather code” on assemblies and the jobs Bldg inspector makes us bring the assembly to code.

In 2x4 exterior walls on older homes required to be upgraded to R-20 (2x6), we will spray foam with 2 lb insulation to avoid furring out the existing 2x4 exterior wall assembly to 2x6 - done with pre-ripped 2” lumber nailed to face of existing exterior studs losing 2” of space. 2 lb is not recommend in ceiling cavities due to its resistance to water absorption, if there is a leak the water will just pool on top rotting out the ceiling assembly, you won’t know there’s a leak. 1/2 lb is preferred as it’s an open cell foam and leaks will show up in the drywall.

Other reasons spray foam is not accepted is the city doesn’t trust the installers to mix and apply properly and since the city signs off on insulation inspection the city is on the hook for the liability of improperly installed spray foam. It’s all about liability now.

Like I said, we avoid it now and only use it if no other options are available. It’s getting harder and harder to use it in Vancouver on “permitted” builds.
This is why I always specify CUFCA (Canadian Urethane Foam Contractor's Association) testing and inspection on any job that I'm working on, with spray foam insulation. I specify that the Contractor has to be a CUFCA member and that all the installers are required to be trained and licensed by CUFCA. Then you don't have any problems as CUFCA takes the responsibility for the installation and guarantees it (similar to what the Roofing Contractor's Association of British Columbia does with commercial roofing). The liability is never with anyone else including the City. I know this is also true in Vancouver as I have done a lot of projects there as well as here in Alberta. Most reputable urethane foam manufacturers will not sell their product to untrained and unlicensed contractors and installers. If you are working on projects that have an Architect or an Engineer on them, who is competent enough to properly specify urethane foam insulation and enforce the specification on site, then you won't have any problems. It sound's like you have had some fly by night outfits installing foam insulation, which is bad for the overall trade. That's why organizations like CUFCA are trying to eliminate these problems.

I'm not saying that spray foam insulation is the answer to all insulating problems, but they do have their place as long as the proper materials are used and installed properly.
Are you a commercial Builder? I’m in single family residential. The COV doesn’t accept spray foam in new builds anymore. You are forced to find other solutions, We went through this on a project regarding an entry porch landing that was over living space below (a basement). The challenge was stepping down to a 2x8 joist spec’d for the landing from the 11-7/8” TJI interior floor assembly, not dropping the basement ceiling below, achieving the proper r-value and venting for the entry landing porch floor/basement ceiling. And then figuring out how to achieve 2% slope with required step down from the interior side to porch. The building envelope engineering came up with a convoluted system using ISO board and laying down dimple board for venting. We poured a 3.5” concrete slab for the porch landing. All would have been made easy with spray foam but the city won’t accept spray. Had to find an alternate solution.
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BCExpat
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Re: Home Construction Discussion

Post by BCExpat »

Chef Boi RD wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:12 am
BCExpat wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:45 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am
That’s a pretty sweet bar Expat. What was the final price tag on it?
I used pressure treated lumber for everything except for the bar tops and the cedar shingles. The roof deck was also pressure treated 1x6, as the underside is exposed and I didn't want to be looking up at OSB or plywood. The total cost was about $1300.00.
Did you treat all your cuts on the pressure treated lumber and were all your fasteners hot dip galvanized or ACQ rated? Chef needs to know.
Yeah I treated all the cut ends and I use ACQ rated screws (the brown ones) throughout. The foot rail is a CCA pressure treated rail, so it requires a different type of fastener (the old green ones).
Feaster Famine

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