Offseason grades so far

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ESQ
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by ESQ » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:49 am

Diehard1 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:51 am
If the point to be made was trading high picks doesn’t matter then it’s about as disingenuous as it gets. The Hawks foundation was built on high picks - Kane, Toews, Keith, Crawford, Seabrook, Bolland, Ladd, Cam Barker (remember him?) were all Hawk picks who played in the team and either contributed or were traded for other contributors.
Kane - 1st
Toews - 3rd
Keith - 54th
Crawford - 52nd
Seabrook - 14th
Bolland - 32nd
Ladd - acquired by trading 9th pick Ruuttu
Barker - 3rd, traded for depth defencemen Leddy and Jonsson

So two high picks on the team, two high picks traded.

You were saying something about being disingenuous?

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micky107
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by micky107 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:19 am

So far, it looks more positive. Nagging issues that still haunt; Eriksson, Sutter , Beagle , the Boeser contract not solidified.
The acquisitions most assuredly were needed. Three new dynamic players in or around the prime of their careers is great.
It lets the fanbase know beyond a shadow of a doubt, no more feigning, it's time to go for the playoffs in ernest.
Management seems to have taken depth very seriously so when the inevitable injuries occur, there will be better options then in the recent past.
Utica will have a far superior roster this year and if Cull and staff can take the next step in developing players individual needs, great.
It's moving along in more logically positive fashion this year in comparison to the last several, (like 8) years.
Still work to be done with signing Boeser and diminishing some of the ugly monies that at this point, are relative.
My sincere good luck with that last issue.
Fly, Louis, be free....

Draft choices are exciting, or so it seems by all accounts and projections.
"evolution"

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rikster
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by rikster » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:16 pm

ESQ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:49 am
Diehard1 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:51 am
If the point to be made was trading high picks doesn’t matter then it’s about as disingenuous as it gets. The Hawks foundation was built on high picks - Kane, Toews, Keith, Crawford, Seabrook, Bolland, Ladd, Cam Barker (remember him?) were all Hawk picks who played in the team and either contributed or were traded for other contributors.
Kane - 1st
Toews - 3rd
Keith - 54th
Crawford - 52nd
Seabrook - 14th
Bolland - 32nd
Ladd - acquired by trading 9th pick Ruuttu
Barker - 3rd, traded for depth defencemen Leddy and Jonsson

So two high picks on the team, two high picks traded.

You were saying something about being disingenuous?
To add;

Marian Hossa was signed as a UFA to a 12 year contract and was a part of all 3 Cup winners...

Patrick Sharp was acquired in a trade for a player named Matt Ellison and a 3rd round pick and was a part of all 3 Cup winners...

Take care...

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:27 pm

Nick Hjalmarsson was a mid round pick that was a big part of those teams.

Troy Brouwer and Dustin Byfuglien were late rounders that helped accelerate the rebuild.


This is why I roll my eyes at people who don’t care when picks are pissed away for waiver wire level talent. You want to trade picks for a good proven player .... ok. But don’t squander them for scrubs.
“ROR IS OVERRATED, MACKINNON IS A BUM, TAVARES IS DONE”

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:46 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:14 am
What I do like is that almost everyone seems to be on board with making the playoffs, no tanking, because that mentality could lead to Tampa getting a good pick. So in that sense ya, we should all be pushing for the playoffs.

While I applaud the full on effort to get back into the playoffs this year, mostly borne of GM saving his job, I'm not sure I'm on board yet and feel like I'm caught in the middle. I want to be on board and I like the moves for the most part, this is a very different team for sure when you visualize the lineup, but my problem is I'm more of a big picture guy and I just don't see the improvements equating to what I want us to ultimately focus on and that is to be a perennial Cup contender. What JB has done is open a 2-4 year window of sneaking into the playoffs, but does anybody see them as anything more than that? My big fear is becoming one of those middling teams that's just good enough to tease the playoffs and get in from time to time only to spin its wheels for years never getting over the hump (think Panthers, Flyers, Wild, Jackets, to name a few).

My bigger picture thinking has us needing a few more years of picking high to add to the nice core we're building with our big 4 of Bo, Pete, Brock, & Quinn. We cannot waste this era, and I think we're still 2 or 3 more big pieces away. Pod could be one of them or he may not be anything..the idea is to maximize your chances with high picks and not toss them away for small-picture solutions. So I am torn. Would hate to waste the efforts this summer but I still need us to draft high sooner than later and the best way there is to miss and retain the lottery pick this year, especially in what people are saying about one of the best drafts in years.

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Jovocop » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:23 pm

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:46 pm
While I applaud the full on effort to get back into the playoffs this year, mostly borne of GM saving his job, I'm not sure I'm on board yet and feel like I'm caught in the middle. I want to be on board and I like the moves for the most part, this is a very different team for sure when you visualize the lineup, but my problem is I'm more of a big picture guy and I just don't see the improvements equating to what I want us to ultimately focus on and that is to be a perennial Cup contender. What JB has done is open a 2-4 year window of sneaking into the playoffs, but does anybody see them as anything more than that? My big fear is becoming one of those middling teams that's just good enough to tease the playoffs and get in from time to time only to spin its wheels for years never getting over the hump (think Panthers, Flyers, Wild, Jackets, to name a few).

My bigger picture thinking has us needing a few more years of picking high to add to the nice core we're building with our big 4 of Bo, Pete, Brock, & Quinn. We cannot waste this era, and I think we're still 2 or 3 more big pieces away. Pod could be one of them or he may not be anything..the idea is to maximize your chances with high picks and not toss them away for small-picture solutions. So I am torn. Would hate to waste the efforts this summer but I still need us to draft high sooner than later and the best way there is to miss and retain the lottery pick this year, especially in what people are saying about one of the best drafts in years.
How many core players can a team afford to keep? If JB believes that Bo, Pete, Brock and Quinn are the core, he will need to surround them with some solid pieces to push for a playoffs spot. Once the core gets a taste of the playoffs, they will then learn what they need to be a true contender. Of course, the Canucks can go the Oilers route, keep drafting high but at the same time developing a losing culture.

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Cornuck » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:43 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:23 pm
How many core players can a team afford to keep? If JB believes that Bo, Pete, Brock and Quinn are the core, he will need to surround them with some solid pieces to push for a playoffs spot.
This is exactly it. At some point, you have to start moving forward. So we draft another 1-2 players who are 2-3 years out from making an impact, then in 2023 we should start making a push? The goal of the team is to compete, not assemble a group of first rounders (he Oilers have shown how well that path works).

Benning feels that the core he's assembled is good enough to compete for the Cup - not now, but soon. He's building around that core, and has filled in most of holes to make this team look competitive in a league with a lot of parity.

I'm on board, I predicted this would be the year we made the playoffs - and really, it's time to move the franchise forward. First round exit? Oh well - it would be a true learning experience for the core. 2nd round exit and first time these kids win a playoff round? That will leave them wanting more. So we get a lower pick? Big whoop - we have Benning drafting right? Maybe he grabs another Boeser?

There's going to be some ugly games, some amazing games, Hughes is going to fuck up from time to time and then amaze us the next shift. Brock's got a full summer to train, Pettersson knows what the NHL is all about now. Captain Bo is ready to lead the team to the next level. This team will be tough to play against every night.

Good things are coming. Even Blobby's looking forward to the new season, right? ;)
2019-20 - Playoff Bound

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Hockey Widow
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Hockey Widow » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:48 pm

Ya, for sure we can keep picking top ten and it’s great but sooner or later we have to get back to winning. I’d rather sooner, like now. I’m happy with a playoff appearance right now. Ya I want the Cup but you gotta start somewhere. We have so many great pieces on the Canucks with more in the pipeline. How many years of Bo, Boeser, Petey, Quinn do we waste until the time is right?

I’m pumped and I’m ready for the ride. No delusions but a lotta faith.
The only HW the Canucks need

ESQ
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by ESQ » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:44 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:23 pm

How many core players can a team afford to keep? If JB believes that Bo, Pete, Brock and Quinn are the core, he will need to surround them with some solid pieces to push for a playoffs spot. Once the core gets a taste of the playoffs, they will then learn what they need to be a true contender. Of course, the Canucks can go the Oilers route, keep drafting high but at the same time developing a losing culture.
Versus the Blues route - shorter tank, long, patient road to the cup.

Sneaking into the playoffs certainly took a new twist this year. And with the Pacific being the consensus weakest division, sneaking in to the playoffs could give a pretty clear route to the WCF at least.

I get why people are drawn to Team Tank, but it's no sure thing, and sneaking into the playoffs is not necessarily a bad idea.

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Meds » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:56 pm

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:46 pm
Hockey Widow wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:14 am
What I do like is that almost everyone seems to be on board with making the playoffs, no tanking, because that mentality could lead to Tampa getting a good pick. So in that sense ya, we should all be pushing for the playoffs.

While I applaud the full on effort to get back into the playoffs this year, mostly borne of GM saving his job, I'm not sure I'm on board yet and feel like I'm caught in the middle. I want to be on board and I like the moves for the most part, this is a very different team for sure when you visualize the lineup, but my problem is I'm more of a big picture guy and I just don't see the improvements equating to what I want us to ultimately focus on and that is to be a perennial Cup contender. What JB has done is open a 2-4 year window of sneaking into the playoffs, but does anybody see them as anything more than that? My big fear is becoming one of those middling teams that's just good enough to tease the playoffs and get in from time to time only to spin its wheels for years never getting over the hump (think Panthers, Flyers, Wild, Jackets, to name a few).

My bigger picture thinking has us needing a few more years of picking high to add to the nice core we're building with our big 4 of Bo, Pete, Brock, & Quinn. We cannot waste this era, and I think we're still 2 or 3 more big pieces away. Pod could be one of them or he may not be anything..the idea is to maximize your chances with high picks and not toss them away for small-picture solutions. So I am torn. Would hate to waste the efforts this summer but I still need us to draft high sooner than later and the best way there is to miss and retain the lottery pick this year, especially in what people are saying about one of the best drafts in years.
We need Pettersson and Boeser to take the next step forward as a top line unit. We need to see Quinn take his first steps. Bo has progressed year-to-year and I think we will see his best years over the next 5. Jake needs to develop into a top-6 winger, or change his game and become a 3rd line hitter who contributes 40 points. Sometimes for guys to take that next step you need to give them a taste.

Pearson and Beagle are Cup winners who know what it feels like and will help push the pedal to the floor.

I agree that Benning has opened a window that gives the team several years of playoff contention, and you are right to say at this point that's all it is. But that's where it starts. Pearson, Sutter, Beagle, Baertschi, Leivo, and Miller, are all useful pieces that Benning needs to see his drafted prospects supplant.....but it won't take a top-15 pick to replace these guys. With what's in the cupboard right now sacrificing one 1st rounder is nothing to panic about.....especially when it is lottery protected. He does need to keep adding some draft picks, that's a given. However, Elmer can keep the homegrown depth and support coming with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, round selections who bloom into regular NHL'ers over several seasons in junior and the AHL.

Whether we spin our wheels or not will depend on how the support pieces perform.

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:02 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:23 pm
How many core players can a team afford to keep?
Certainly more than our core 4 IF you avoid bonehead contracts on sub-average players. It is absolutely ridiculous that we're at a cap crunch when we're not even an established playoff team yet. How is it possible that we're having similar problems to the Leaf's and they have far more core players, solid complimentary pieces, and are miles closer to the Cup than we are??

The Oilers problem was/is management did a piss poor job of drafting beyond their lotto picks and making horrible decisions on trades. Just because they failed doesn't mean building a great young core isn't the best route to the Cup, I truly believe that. Having too many of them would be a good problem that leaves a ton of flexibility that a good management team can have as amo to build exactly what they need.
Last edited by Nuckertuzzi on Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:11 pm

Meds wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:56 pm
With what's in the cupboard right now sacrificing one 1st rounder is nothing to panic about.
Best argument so far. I do love what's in the cupboard and biggest reason I would not want to fire JB anytime soon (dread going back to those dark void draft eras of years past), so can't argue there. But may the cupboard be enough? Perhaps, however I just don't see another stud No. 1 d-man in there and I'd feel a hell of a lot better if we have a chance at one in the next few years. Again, I'd just hate for this group to be missing that one or two "something" like failed yet close teams from past eras. Unless our GM can pull some miracle trades out of his ass, now, through the draft, is the time to pick that piece(s) up.

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:20 pm

ESQ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:44 pm
Jovocop wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:23 pm

How many core players can a team afford to keep? If JB believes that Bo, Pete, Brock and Quinn are the core, he will need to surround them with some solid pieces to push for a playoffs spot. Once the core gets a taste of the playoffs, they will then learn what they need to be a true contender. Of course, the Canucks can go the Oilers route, keep drafting high but at the same time developing a losing culture.
Versus the Blues route - shorter tank, long, patient road to the cup.

Sneaking into the playoffs certainly took a new twist this year. And with the Pacific being the consensus weakest division, sneaking in to the playoffs could give a pretty clear route to the WCF at least.

I get why people are drawn to Team Tank, but it's no sure thing, and sneaking into the playoffs is not necessarily a bad idea.
The Blues are not your average sneak in and make it in luck type team. They’ve been a perennial playoff team that got off to a horrible start that got their coach fired. They have a good and deep roster. They’ve drafted and developed well for years and have had a solid push from below for a long time.

I do have to agree about the Pacific being a weak division though.
“ROR IS OVERRATED, MACKINNON IS A BUM, TAVARES IS DONE”

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Strangelove » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:02 pm
It is absolutely ridiculous that we're at a cap crunch when we're not even an established playoff team yet.
Well see, we were $30M under the cap last season towards the end

... so yes of course we weren't a playoff team. :?

We're "at a cap crunch" (well not really) now because Jimmy is going all in on the playoffs.

It's not "ridiculous" to decide it's time to transition from the rebuild after a few years.

And rich teams like MS's Canucks are going to spend to the cap when they're not in a rebuild.

You've been pissing and moaning about all the spending this off-season, is it your money? :D

If so, be glad because playoff revenue is a good thing...
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Meds » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:18 pm

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:11 pm
Meds wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:56 pm
With what's in the cupboard right now sacrificing one 1st rounder is nothing to panic about.
Best argument so far. I do love what's in the cupboard and biggest reason I would not want to fire JB anytime soon (dread going back to those dark void draft eras of years past), so can't argue there. But may the cupboard be enough? Perhaps, however I just don't see another stud No. 1 d-man in there and I'd feel a hell of a lot better if we have a chance at one in the next few years. Again, I'd just hate for this group to be missing that one or two "something" like failed yet close teams from past eras. Unless our GM can pull some miracle trades out of his ass, now, through the draft, is the time to pick that piece(s) up.
Josi (2)
Letang (3)
Subban (2)
Klingberg (5)
Byfuglien (8)
Barrie (3)
Giordano (undrafted)
Krug (undrafted)
Yandle (4)
Weber (2)
Ekholm (4)
Edler (3)
Parayko (3)
Keith (2)
Chara (3)
Lidstrom (3)
Blake (4)
Howe (2)
Foote (2)
Faulk (4)

All top 4 guys, and many top 2.....all taken after the first round. And that’s just the names off the top of my head.

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