US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

[ukcanuck]

I read it all.

I never said there was a "conspiracy".

Oh how I wish the old CC was available !

If you haven't noticed, I've been linking to Catholic sites for UK's benefit of late.

They do say its the thought that counts

As I said, they're nice about it, but say NOAA messed with the data due to human failings of some sort.

I'm with Per on this one, the article seems to argue that it's not a manipulation of data in the sense you wish it to mean but an adjustment after the fact in order to compensate for obsolescence.

There are plenty of links which hold them closer to the fire, you can look them up as easy as I.

You need to address the fact that NOAA data was manipulated, accidentally or otherwise.

we have a difference of opinion on the use of the term Manipulate

It seems you mean this:

control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly or unscrupulously.
"the masses were deceived and manipulated by a tiny group"
synonyms: exploit, control, influence, use/turn to one's advantage, manoeuvre, engineer, steer, direct, guide, twist round one's little finger, work, orchestrate, choreograph

While Father McRapey means "adjust"

to change something slightly, especially to make it more correct, effective, or suitable:

so yeah, it looks like you're using this source to manipulate the situation here in this thread...

You need to address troposphere warming vs surface warming from the other link I gave.

(the other link accused NOAA of outright "data tampering"... figured one link balanced the other)

The NOAA graph you gave was useless (other than for alarmist purposes = other human failings).

I'll leave the troposphere thing for Per I'm still picking the cheerio that backed up my nasal cavity at your post about Nazis were once fascists and fascists and communists both rose from the progressive movement in the 19th century, therefore: nazis are actually communists ...

lovely manipulation of history that one


However, even if that were true in bizarro world, it still doesn't change the fact that righties use the term Communist in order to bait arguments from the left into losing their credibility in exactly the same manner that lefties toss back the N word because in popular culture, "Nazi or Hitler" means an extreme right wing, evil prick that gassed 6 million innocent Jews...

oops! did I just admit the holocaust actually happened? Praise the lord and pass the butter think I have been converted!

[ukcanuck]

^ Who are you kidding, you have a government job, you can post all day!

(and usually you do!)

It's the only way to have a shot at keeping up with you !

Unfortunately I have a private sector job but lucky for you Eid is coming next week and I'll be free enough to drive a truck through some of these posts soon.

Eid... is this like id al fitr?

The shops here bring in baklava for that!

Hmmm... seems to be eid al adha.
Wikipedia goes on and on about Ibrahim willing to sacrifice his son, and about giving meat to the poor.
Nothing about baklava!

But how can Muslims have a party without baklava?
Makes no sense.

There must be baklava.
I'll have to go check at some store.

Yeah it's the more somber of the two Eid holidays. Kind of like Good Friday is to Easter Sunday. Interesting the story of Abraham/Ibrahim; Sarah and Hagar; Isaac and Ismail and how the same story differs between Christians, Jews and Muslims ... makes one think that there must have been a Creeper's Bar and Grill papyrus lost somewhere...

[ukcanuck]

Topper's comment taken exactly as written is correct. You can't do anything to a data set to increase precision. Post-calibration to remove a known offset doesn't change the precision. If Per mentioned or inferred a change in 'precision' - although I didn't see it - he probably meant it in a more colloquial sense.

I feel marginally trolled...

I'm not a scientist, and even though I took the natural sciences programme in high school, my university training is mainly in economics, business administration and modern languages (Spanish, English and German), so I guess my understanding of the word precision may lack in... er... precision.

That being said, the article stated that the changes made were due to two main causes:

a) They now had access to more data; the "original data" was based on temperatures measured in certain locations. Later they have gained access to temperatures measured during the same time period but at other locations. Of course, when calculating the global average, the more locations you have data from, the more reliable the results are.

b) In early observations of sea temperatures, they did not measure the temperature directly in the sea, but by getting a bucket of water out of the sea and then measure the temperature in the bucket, inside the ship. Based on a study comparing this method to the modern measuring, directly in the sea, they calculated a mean error, and then corrected the old measurements with this.

From my understanding, the former changes, caused by the increase in available data, would almost certainly lead to better precision in calculating global averages, whereas the latter changes, brought by adjusting the results stemming from a previously used flawed method of data gathering, may be bringing us closer to the truth, but not fulfill your criteria for what is considered better precision, right?

If I were to venture a guess at the reason Topper made his comment about precision was to point out that scientists should know that one can't alter the precision of those early attempts to measure sea temperatures without knowingly manipulating the data. Therefore its another proof that AGW is a hoax.

This may or may not be a good point, however, it still doesn't alter the reality that hoax claimers enjoy an easy time of it as they don't have to prove the science but merely need to cast doubt in order to troll in the easily misled...

[Cornuck]

This may or may not be a good point, however, it still doesn't alter the reality that hoax claimers enjoy an easy time of it as they don't have to prove the science but merely need to cast doubt in order to troll in the easily misled...

Does this mean that 9/11 wasn't an inside job?

[Topper]

Precision was mentioned in the quoted article.

Post processing of GPS data (something I have quite a bit of experience with) does not increase the precision of the the data.

Levelling data, which is what they are doing to historical sets to "adjust" them to modern data sets, has several assumptions and bias. These correction processes are based around data in the middle of the data set and fails at the edges of the data set.

When they talk of a 0.12C correction, you need to ask if that is within the level of precision of the original data? Was the historical data collected at finer than a +/-0.12C level?

Playing with the data is all boffo and fun, but you still need to bare in mind what you are doing to the data and the limitations of the original data collection.

But hey....I just spent the morning doing geostats on a data set to establish a top cut for kriging the data and then inserted a directional bias.

[Strangelove]

I'll leave the troposphere thing for Per I'm still picking the cheerio that backed up my nasal cavity at your post about Nazis were once fascists and fascists and communists both rose from the progressive movement in the 19th century, therefore: nazis are actually communists ...

lovely manipulation of history that one

I said that?

Lol I mentioned Goldberg and it appears you googled to find his critics.

But yeah: Reading comprehension.

(typical fucking goosestepping commie)

However, even if that were true in bizarro world, it still doesn't change the fact that righties use the term Communist in order to bait arguments from the left into losing their credibility in exactly the same manner that lefties toss back the N word because in popular culture, "Nazi or Hitler" means an extreme right wing, evil prick that gassed 6 million innocent Jews...

Nazism AKA "National Socialism" originally hated Capitalism which was blamed on the Jews.

The Jews remained the scapegoats as Nazi Germany went full-fascist.

Fascism was the baby of anti-capitalist student-of-Marxism Mussolini over in Italy.

Fascism came out of Left field... where it ended is a question debated by historians to this day.

(Nazism also came out of Left field)

These days popular culture considers fascism as right-wing due to it's nationalistic tendencies and such.

But the Right didn't give birth to it

... and the Jews were gassed at least partially for their alleged capitalistic ways.

[Strangelove]

As for your NOAA graph above:

http://realclimatescience.com/2016/03/n ... -58-years/

Due to Urban Heat Island Effects, the NOAA surface data shows nearly one degree warming from 1979 to 2010, but their original radiosonde data showed little warming during that time. Global warming theory is based on troposphere warming, which is why the radiosonde data should be used by modelers – instead of the UHI contaminated surface data.



NOAA’s original published radiosonde data showed little net troposphere warming from 1958 to 2010, when the data set ended.



The next graph shows how NOAA has altered their 850-300 mb temperature data since 2011. Another hockey stick of data tampering.

[ukcanuck]

Do me a favour there doc, go back and read my post again....lol reading comprehension...

[Strangelove]

Obviously I completely understood everything that I chose to respond to in your post.

Not gonna respond to your "Why not the C word, if the N word".

The fact I went out of my way to call you a "commie" should have been your first clue.

[Topper]

That son of a bitch was made to look like a turd coming out of the ass of his plane.

Was Air Force 1 heading to Amarillo after Asia?

[Strangelove]

^ "son of a whore"

[ukcanuck]

I'll leave the troposphere thing for Per I'm still picking the cheerio that backed up my nasal cavity at your post about Nazis were once fascists and fascists and communists both rose from the progressive movement in the 19th century, therefore: nazis are actually communists ...

lovely manipulation of history that one

I said that?

Lol I mentioned Goldberg and it appears you googled to find his critics.

But yeah: Reading comprehension.

(typical fucking goose-stepping commie)

I didn't have to google his critics, I know enough about this topic all by my little lonesome.

To be fair to Goldberg I would have to read his book before I'd use it as toilet paper and I'm going to look for a copy to give it a read just in case, however, your understanding of him as presented in your post is either fucked up or he is, and once again you evade the point.

you brought the term "Reductio ad Hitlerum" to the party and you slammed poor old Damon for it. However, somehow in your Archie Bunker delusional mind it's okay to throw around

(typical fucking goose-stepping commie)

in a tired and boring attempt to goad the opposition into losing the plot.

In fact, I think if I had the time to rummage through your 11000 whatever posts I could come up with dozens upon dozens of times where you do exactly that very hypocritical thing.

However, even if that were true in bizarro world, it still doesn't change the fact that righties use the term Communist in order to bait arguments from the left into losing their credibility in exactly the same manner that lefties toss back the N word because in popular culture, "Nazi or Hitler" means an extreme right wing, evil prick that gassed 6 million innocent Jews...

Nazism AKA "National Socialism" originally hated Capitalism which was blamed on the Jews.

The Jews remained the scapegoats as Nazi Germany went full-fascist.

Fascism was the baby of anti-capitalist student-of-Marxism Mussolini over in Italy.

Fascism came out of Left field... where it ended is a question debated by historians to this day.

(Nazism also came out of Left field)

These days popular culture considers fascism as right-wing due to it's nationalistic tendencies and such.

But the Right didn't give birth to it

... and the Jews were gassed at least partially for their alleged capitalistic ways.

To this I say, first figure out the difference between the terms Fascist and Nazi they are not synonyms.
secondly, read up on the First World War
Thirdly, before explaining Hitler was anti capitalist, read Mein Kampf, Hitler hated the Jews for bank rolling the Allies war effort and he detested Germany's capitalists for signing the Treaty of Versailles. You're twisting things to suit your agenda again, as usual.

[Topper]

^ "son of a whore"

the mutt got paid?

[ukcanuck]

Obviously I completely understood everything that I chose to respond to in your post.

Not gonna respond to your "Why not the C word, if the N word".

The fact I went out of my way to call you a "commie" should have been your first clue.

Going out of your way?
You've been calling me a commie since the first Lock out. I imagine it rolls of your tongue subconsciously by now.

But why not respond to the C word is okay but N word not?

I did ask the question politely and without malicious intent... well originally anyway...

[ukcanuck]

That son of a bitch was made to look like a turd coming out of the ass of his plane.

Was Air Force 1 heading to Amarillo after Asia?

Soon to be trump force one if some have their way...