If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would ya?

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If trading Horvat + 6th pick was the only way to acquire the 2014 1st pick, would ya do it?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:43 am

YES! YES! YES!
9
18%
NO means NO.
37
76%
Other (Please explain in post)
3
6%
 
Total votes: 49

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Strangelove
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Strangelove » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:02 pm

Betamax wrote: Well, it takes two to tangle. Ergo, it's the never ending flame war between two wash up, has been posters that have spanned across the centre and in the corner. :mex:
Yeah.

And just so you know?

You cut him deep bro.

Yeah.

He STILL feels the pain of the scars that won't heal. :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Betamax » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:09 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Betamax wrote: Well, it takes two to tangle. Ergo, it's the never ending flame war between two wash up, has been posters that have spanned across the centre and in the corner. :mex:
Yeah.

And just so you know?

You cut him deep bro.

Yeah.

He STILL feels the pain of the scars that won't heal. :mex:
Well, at least Spidey's enjoying "Father's Day" ... while I'm here posting to myself.

I wish I had kids. :mex:

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Chef Boi RD » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:30 pm

Hey K, what about Lotan Baba? The rolling saint? A holy man.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Betamax » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:33 pm

Boston Canucker wrote:A potential Kesler deal will tell the tale of this idea of going after the #1 pick. If it happens what sort of picks/prospects does Benning get back, what kind of flexibility does it give him in constructing a deal etc? Without such a deal, I don't see Benning moving Horvat/6 pick for #1. He needs to have already bolstered the prospect/coffers beforehand to advance the youth movement, provide some cushion.
Yeah, I think the Kesler trade will be the first domino to drop. I predict he'll be traded before the Draft. Whether those asset(s) acquired are re-traded to move up the draft .............. :mex:

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by The Brown Knight » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:58 pm

Meds wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote: NO ONE is putting Reinhart in the same weight class as Sakic, Toews, Crosby, and McDavid/MacKinnon/Eichel.
Despite the fact that he has won 2 Cups, I really don't know why you have Toews mixed in with that collection of names.
We'll really have to disagree on this one Meds. Not only do I think that Toews *easily* belongs on a list consisting of Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc., but I'd even go as far as saying that Toews is currently the best overall player in the game. No joke. Toews is an exceptional leader and can do anything and everything that is asked of him.
Reinhart could very well end up being a guy who belongs in a category with Toews. Reinhart's junior numbers are better than Toews' were. Toews simply tore it up in Midget AAA, but then in WCHA he was barely more than a 1.0ppg player. Since entering the NHL he's below the 1.0 ppg mark. Reinhart has been slaying it for the last 2 years in a tougher CHL league, this year he had 105 points in 60 games (1.75 ppg) on a relatively weak team. His junior numbers are on par with Nate MacKinnon's and Connor McDavid's.

I'm not trying to slag Toews, he's one of the best leaders in the game, and a truly exceptional 2-way forward. His compete level is among the highest, and I would have him on my team in a heartbeat (even though he's a bit of a whiner). But watch the Hawks next year, or reflect on this year. The Blackhawks feed off of Toews, he is the engine of that team, no question. But Kane is the guy who steers the bus. When Kane is going, the Hawks are next to unstoppable. Things just happen for them. They can still win when Kane is mailing it in, but they dig deeper and the games are closer. Toews belongs in a category with guys like Getzlaf and Kopitar.
Definitely agree with you about Reinhart.

Kane is an exceptional offensive talent without question (much better than Toews), but Toews brings far more to the table in my opinion. He has size, can play physical, can kill penalties, is comfortable in a shut down role, and is an exceptional leader.

I think Toews could very well be considered the best overall player in the game........even moreso than Crosby in my opinion. Look no further than how Toews performs at the Olympics.
Last edited by The Brown Knight on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by The Brown Knight » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:00 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Hey K, what about Lotan Baba? The rolling saint? A holy man.
Lotan Baba, like Dump from Calgarypuck.com, comes from a long line of successful litigators from what I hear. :P
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Betamax » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:05 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:I think Toews could very well be considered the best overall player in the game........even moreso than Crosby in my opinion.
You know with guys like Toews (or Linden for that matter) ... guys that elevate their play during the Playoffs (usually). The Son of Paul elevated his play during his team's most recent Playoffs as noted by the director of mckeens' scouting.

You need more of those type of players' rather than those that put up mega points in the regular season but disappear during the post season. :mex:

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by The Brown Knight » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:08 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote: But still - we have guys like Edler, Tanev, Burrows, Hansen, and Higgins that should capture some interest. What if it was our 6th overall + 1 or 2 of those guys I mentioned?
This is essentially what every reasonable poster has been saying throughout this thread.

We don't see Benning parting with the 6th and Horvat for the 1st overall, it's too much for Reinhart. It's no secret Tallon is looking for vets on defense, we have some that may be willing to waive to play in FLA.

Tallon may have started with the 6th and Horvat, but it's like any negotiation - start high and work your way back to what you actually expect!
Agreed.

Like I said, I'd would much much rather keep onto Horvat as I think BoHo could be an excellent two-way second line center one day, but I would be willing to do Horvat + 6th overall. That's where me, and a few others, disagree with the mass majority but this thread will definitely be one that we should revisit in a few years. :P
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by The Brown Knight » Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:10 pm

Betamax wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote:I think Toews could very well be considered the best overall player in the game........even moreso than Crosby in my opinion.
You know with guys like Toews (or Linden for that matter) ... guys that elevate their play during the Playoffs (usually). The Son of Paul elevated his play during his team's most recent Playoffs as noted by the director of mckeens' scouting.

You need more of those type of players' rather than those that put up mega points in the regular season but disappear during the post season. :mex:
Yep. Exactly.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Aaronp18 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:27 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:
Aaronp18 wrote: This is essentially what every reasonable poster has been saying throughout this thread.

We don't see Benning parting with the 6th and Horvat for the 1st overall, it's too much for Reinhart. It's no secret Tallon is looking for vets on defense, we have some that may be willing to waive to play in FLA.

Tallon may have started with the 6th and Horvat, but it's like any negotiation - start high and work your way back to what you actually expect!
Agreed.
:hmmm:

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by Meds » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:16 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:
Meds wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote: NO ONE is putting Reinhart in the same weight class as Sakic, Toews, Crosby, and McDavid/MacKinnon/Eichel.
Despite the fact that he has won 2 Cups, I really don't know why you have Toews mixed in with that collection of names.
We'll really have to disagree on this one Meds. Not only do I think that Toews *easily* belongs on a list consisting of Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc., but I'd even go as far as saying that Toews is currently the best overall player in the game. No joke. Toews is an exceptional leader and can do anything and everything that is asked of him.
I think that if you were to put Toews on a team that isn't as stacked as the Blackhawks, he would still be a great leader and solid two-way talent, but I doubt he has 2 Stanley Cup rings. The ONLY reason I don't put him in a class with Crosby and Sakic is because of his numbers. He has never been a lock for putting up huge point totals since he left Midget AAA at Shattuck St. Mary's.

What he does on the ice, in every aspect of the game, and the fact that he has that pair of rings, is the very reason that he still gets recognition as a great player. Here is an interesting comparable.....

Toews was a 1.11 ppg player in the WCHA. His ppg numbers after 7 years in the NHL are 0.91.

Linden was 1.0 ppg player in the WHL. He was a 0.81 ppg player after 7 years in the NHL.

Toews is playing on a team that is simply stacked with talent, one of the deepest in recent history. I'm sure you remember the quality of the Canucks roster that Linden was drafted onto. So Toews is a more talented version of Linden.

I really don't think he's as good as guys that are named in a class with Crosby. His all-around game gives him a boost, so I think he's close. But take away Kane, Hossa, and Sharp, and stick him with Dupuis, Kunitz, and Neal, and I doubt Toews has 2 Cups.
Kane is an exceptional offensive talent without question (much better than Toews), but Toews brings far more to the table in my opinion. He has size, can play physical, can kill penalties, is comfortable in a shut down role, and is an exceptional leader.

I think Toews could very well be considered the best overall player in the game........even moreso than Crosby in my opinion. Look no further than how Toews performs at the Olympics.
Absolutely agree with you regarding Kane and Toews. But when Kane is on his game, you can see a difference in the Hawk's game. They have more jump, and more chemistry. But Kane isn't the engine powering them like Toews is.

The Olympics is a poor place to compare Crosby and Toews. Crosby gets to play against THE BEST shutdown players the opposition can throw at him, he is the guy that they keyed on. The best checking lines outside of Canada were sent out against Crosby, not Toews. That argument can be made for almost every player on Canada, our team was so stacked that after Crosby's line faced the other team's best defenders, any line that took the ice for us looked unreal. :P

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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by ClamRussel » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:32 am

SKYO wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:Actually, he is projected to potentially be a no.1 center...more accurately a 1b or a 2 center. The jury is still out. Certainly that would depend on how deep his team is. Reinhart is hardly a franchise center a team should hitch it's wagon to. He'd be a welcome addition to the Canucks stable but so too would be Bennett or a Dal Cole.
You read blogs online just like the rest of us...but more accurately he projects to be a top 10-15 center in the league. So that's definitely a 1A center.
Yes, but some people tend to talk abo prospects as if they really know or have seen them. The consensus is not 1a but that doesn't really mean anything either. Daigle was projected as elite superstar and he could barely play in the league. Henrik wasn't projected as a 1a and yet look at his career. Who knows.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by ClamRussel » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:42 am

The Brown Knight wrote:
ClamRussel wrote: Well, you're mistaken. In this thread he has been called a "bonafide franchise center"
Laughable.

You don't win without depth and Horvat has proven to be a clutch performer. If you trade players like Horvat plus a top 6 pick you damn well be getting more than a potential 1b center.
I understand what you're saying Clam, and do understand the importance of depth, but it seems to me like you're saying this with the assumption that all/most of our draft picks will pan out. Drafts don't work that way.

More times than not, draft picks do not pan out as expected.............and this risk increases exponentially as you move away from the Top 3 picks in a first round draft.
How am I saying that? I have, however, been around this team long enough to know how it felt to see players like Vaive & Neely lighting it up on a nightly basis. I'm not saying it wouldn't be smart to trade up for Reinhart, it's just got to be a trade that makes sense. He doesn't project as the type of player you overpay for (ie McDavid or Eichel). We don't have the depth to be stupid. I'd rather have BOTH Horvat and 6 than 1 in *this* year's draft. Next year's draft is a different story.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by ClamRussel » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:46 am

The Brown Knight wrote:I was just going by the rumored deal (someone had mentioned that Tallon had specifically asked for Horvat and the 6th).
There is no rumoured deal, it was simply one sports writer masturbating during a long off season. There is no smoke ...ergo no fire.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Post by ClamRussel » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:02 am

The Brown Knight wrote:
Meds wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote: NO ONE is putting Reinhart in the same weight class as Sakic, Toews, Crosby, and McDavid/MacKinnon/Eichel.
Despite the fact that he has won 2 Cups, I really don't know why you have Toews mixed in with that collection of names.
We'll really have to disagree on this one Meds. Not only do I think that Toews *easily* belongs on a list consisting of Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc., but I'd even go as far as saying that Toews is currently the best overall player in the game. No joke. Toews is an exceptional leader and can do anything and everything that is asked of him.
Reinhart could very well end up being a guy who belongs in a category with Toews. Reinhart's junior numbers are better than Toews' were. Toews simply tore it up in Midget AAA, but then in WCHA he was barely more than a 1.0ppg player. Since entering the NHL he's below the 1.0 ppg mark. Reinhart has been slaying it for the last 2 years in a tougher CHL league, this year he had 105 points in 60 games (1.75 ppg) on a relatively weak team. His junior numbers are on par with Nate MacKinnon's and Connor McDavid's.

I'm not trying to slag Toews, he's one of the best leaders in the game, and a truly exceptional 2-way forward. His compete level is among the highest, and I would have him on my team in a heartbeat (even though he's a bit of a whiner). But watch the Hawks next year, or reflect on this year. The Blackhawks feed off of Toews, he is the engine of that team, no question. But Kane is the guy who steers the bus. When Kane is going, the Hawks are next to unstoppable. Things just happen for them. They can still win when Kane is mailing it in, but they dig deeper and the games are closer. Toews belongs in a category with guys like Getzlaf and Kopitar.
Definitely agree with you about Reinhart.

Kane is an exceptional offensive talent without question (much better than Toews), but Toews brings far more to the table in my opinion. He has size, can play physical, can kill penalties, is comfortable in a shut down role, and is an exceptional leader.

I think Toews could very well be considered the best overall player in the game........even moreso than Crosby in my opinion. Look no further than how Toews performs at the Olympics.
So now Reinhart could become the best overall player in the game? Shit, not only should we offer Horvat & the 6th but we better throw in Shinkaruk to seal the deal!!
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