US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

ukcanuck wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:18 pm As for AOC of course you would think she is stupid. She looks after people you don’t give a shit about.
She doesn't look after shit...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/is-aoc ... vestigates
AOC is a 'noise box' who introduced 21 bills that went 'nowhere'

Hosts of The Big Saturday Show Saturday sounded off on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s ineffectiveness in Congress, suggesting she was all talk and no action, noting that in the last Congress, she introduced 21 bills, which "went nowhere."

GUY BENSON: New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is certainly one of the most high-profile members of the House, but a new non-partisan study by Vanderbilt University and the University of Virginia shows she was among the least effective members of the last Congress, introducing 21 bills that went nowhere. She sure does talk a big game, though.

LEO TERRELL: This woman is a noise box. Can someone in New York run against her, please? She is very ineffective…she’s ineffective, but she makes a lot of noise. She could never win any type of state-wide seat, but she serves a purpose for the left-wing extreme left media, and, social media. And that’s her calling card, not as a legislator, but as a noise piece. She is destructive to the American value and way of life.
She useless yo.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by ukcanuck »

Strangelove wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:21 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Ds_of_antisemitism

"Three Ds of antisemitism"

Start here, I'm a healer (not the dog)...
Hmm spelled heeler I think?

anyway-

The "three Ds" or the "3D test" of antisemitism is a set of criteria which was formulated by Israeli politician Natan Sharansky in order to distinguish legitimate criticism of Israel from antisemitism. The three Ds stand for:
Delegitimization of Israel
Demonization of Israel
Subjecting Israel to Double standards
Let's play...

Delegitimization of Israel: The denial of the Jewish people's right to self-determination...

ukcanuck wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:33 pm“I have always understood that Israel needed to be hardline to survive, but the trouble is that hardliners just create more desperate people and fighting fire with fire does not work.”
ukcanuck wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:46 pm You can't destroy your enemy with those tactics, you either make more enemies or you change who you are.Israel cannot remain an enlightened democratic society worth saving while practicing genocide.
Seems like I have agreed in the past that Israel has the right to exist. so did Yasser Arafat and the PLO in their day
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2 ... ecognition

Demonization: the portrayal of certain groups as evil, demonic, or satanic.

An example given - a cartoon of an Israeli soldier pointing a rifle at a Palestinian baby was published. This kind of scene is not antisemitism. However, the baby was a typical depiction of the baby Jesus, who was telling the soldier (in the caption), "Oh, you’re doing it to me all over again." Therefore, this is an example of the second "D", demonization

Yeah, not even remotely guilty of this. * you’re going to try to link this to my suggestion/accusation that your links to American media and its role in serving the goals of Christian Zionism or the quite natural human bias of Jewish owned media but it does not not qualify as demonization. I made no such claim as to a global conspiracy of evil. although, you and your bretheren in the church of almighty trump constantly go on about a great global media conspiracy...but thats okay somehow?


Double standards: The last "D" refers to the application of different sets of principles on similar situations. If a person criticizes Israel and only Israel on certain issues, but chooses to ignore similar situations conducted by other countries they are performing a double standard policy against Israel.

Okay...what other nations that occupy unceded territory do I not also criticize? Hmm… oh yeah! Canada! Do the canucks not always remind us that they are playing games on the unceded territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and Sel̓íl̓witulh (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations? I'm pretty sure they do. And I am sure other countries condemn us for the conditions of reserves as well. Should they condemn us for the following?
  • Alleged lack of democracy, (how many aboriginal judges sit on the canadian supreme court?)
    Israelis live under Israeli laws, Palestinians live under military law. Minority rights in canada are well looked after, ever tried to get a job with the feds knowing only english?
    Israeli settlements: establishing civilian settlements in territories considered occupied, including in East Jerusalem, is illegal. Israel disputes the notion that the West Bank and in particular East Jerusalem are occupied under international law, though this view is dismissed internationally. Building on unceded land? I guess we are guilty of that.
    Human rights: Human Rights Watch (HRW) has said Israel operates a "two-tier" judicial system in areas of the occupied Palestinian territories. Canada not guilty of that
    Imprisonments: Amnesty International reported that in 2009 hundreds of Palestinians were detained and held incommunicado for extended periods of time by Israel. I guess Louis Real says hello from the grave-though i think we pardoned that guy posthumously?
    Alleged poor treatment of ethnic and religious minorities - hmm canadian charter …?
    Stagnating peace process cant have a peace process if we are already at peace?
    Military practices Human shield allegations: they did in fact blow up a UN school that the UN had warned Israel contained innocent women and children https://www.npr.org/2014/07/24/33498926 ... ns-in-gaza
    Possession of weapons of mass destruction - does selling armoured vehicles to saudi count?
    The Law of Returning refuges. Not aware of any first nations refuges that need to return from exile?
There. a bit of navel gazing to make sure i'm not holding a double standard...


Bonus round:
The author of your link:

Sharansky has argued that there can never be peace between Israel and the Palestinians until there is "the building of real democratic institutions in the fledgling Palestinian society, no matter how tempting a 'solution' without them may be."
In a Haaretz interview, he maintained the following:
Jews came here 3,000 years ago and this is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Jews are the only people in history who kept their loyalty to their identity and their land throughout the 2,000 years of exile, and no doubt that they have the right to have their place among nations—not only historically but also geographically. As to the Palestinians, who are the descendants of those Arabs who migrated in the last 200 years, they have the right, if they want, to have their own state ... but not at the expense of the state of Israel.


Topper wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:15 amTopper wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Topper wrote:
Genocide of the conquered people is the only solution. The final Solution in fact.
Whether it be Jews/Muslims, Shia/Sunni, Catholic/Protestant, Brit/Scots/Irish, Cowboys/Wagon Burners, whatever, whoever. Conflicts of today should have been and could have been settled centuries ago through extermination.
Touching, but dream of world peace all you like buds: NOT GONNA HAPPEN!! Wars, civil or otherwise, will always be with us.
I blame the treehuggers.
Dare to dream Doc. Dare to dream.

Last man standing amongst a bunch of dead fucking deadbeat weirdos heathens and infidels.
my response could have been written by Sharansky...
The Soviet Union under Stalin subscribed to the same policy, didn't work out so well there.

You can't destroy your enemy with those tactics, you either make more enemies or you change who you are.
Israel cannot remain an enlightened democratic society worth saving while practicing genocide.

The way to peace is by opening the door to change.
Give Palestinians citizenship and a piece of the pie and watch how many would start focussing on living instead of dying.
lookie there, me and Sharansky - like peas and carrots

Not too sure how Sharansky would feel about you and Topper going on about final solutions, what's that all about?
Last edited by ukcanuck on Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by ukcanuck »

Strangelove wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:18 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:18 pm As for AOC of course you would think she is stupid. She looks after people you don’t give a shit about.
She doesn't look after shit...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/is-aoc ... vestigates
AOC is a 'noise box' who introduced 21 bills that went 'nowhere'

Hosts of The Big Saturday Show Saturday sounded off on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s ineffectiveness in Congress, suggesting she was all talk and no action, noting that in the last Congress, she introduced 21 bills, which "went nowhere."

GUY BENSON: New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is certainly one of the most high-profile members of the House, but a new non-partisan study by Vanderbilt University and the University of Virginia shows she was among the least effective members of the last Congress, introducing 21 bills that went nowhere. She sure does talk a big game, though.

LEO TERRELL: This woman is a noise box. Can someone in New York run against her, please? She is very ineffective…she’s ineffective, but she makes a lot of noise. She could never win any type of state-wide seat, but she serves a purpose for the left-wing extreme left media, and, social media. And that’s her calling card, not as a legislator, but as a noise piece. She is destructive to the American value and way of life.
She useless yo.
lets be fair, how many proposed bills actually become law? not many and certainly none from the "extreme left" while that piece of shit McConnell had anything to do with it. BTW i object to the term extreme left as much as you dislike cuntservative. There is nothing extreme about health care, education and human rights. calling those things and any discussion of those things extreme is the ignorant equivalent.

for Corn's sake I'm not using Cuntservative at the moment, how about you lose the "extreme left" rhetoric?

As for noise box holy shit LEO TERRELL - and that other prick tucker carlson really? the guy who admits he is full of shit?

also keep wining about the border situation, it only matters to your kind, the rest of realize that 100 days does not undo four years of a rudderless ship.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Meds »

ukcanuck wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:07 pm
Strangelove wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:18 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:18 pm As for AOC of course you would think she is stupid. She looks after people you don’t give a shit about.
She doesn't look after shit...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/is-aoc ... vestigates
AOC is a 'noise box' who introduced 21 bills that went 'nowhere'

Hosts of The Big Saturday Show Saturday sounded off on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s ineffectiveness in Congress, suggesting she was all talk and no action, noting that in the last Congress, she introduced 21 bills, which "went nowhere."

GUY BENSON: New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is certainly one of the most high-profile members of the House, but a new non-partisan study by Vanderbilt University and the University of Virginia shows she was among the least effective members of the last Congress, introducing 21 bills that went nowhere. She sure does talk a big game, though.

LEO TERRELL: This woman is a noise box. Can someone in New York run against her, please? She is very ineffective…she’s ineffective, but she makes a lot of noise. She could never win any type of state-wide seat, but she serves a purpose for the left-wing extreme left media, and, social media. And that’s her calling card, not as a legislator, but as a noise piece. She is destructive to the American value and way of life.
She useless yo.
lets be fair, how many proposed bills actually become law? not many and certainly none from the "extreme left" while that piece of shit McConnell had anything to do with it. BTW i object to the term extreme left as much as you dislike cuntservative. There is nothing extreme about health care, education and human rights. calling those things and any discussion of those things extreme is the ignorant equivalent.

for Corn's sake I'm not using Cuntservative at the moment, how about you lose the "extreme left" rhetoric?

As for noise box holy shit LEO TERRELL - and that other prick tucker carlson really? the guy who admits he is full of shit?

also keep wining about the border situation, it only matters to your kind, the rest of realize that 100 days does not undo four years of a rudderless ship.
Here's why AOC, and people like her, are noise boxes. They want to propose bills that will pass massive sweeping changes into society, but they have no actual plan to do it. They have goals, they have the endgame of these changes figured out but they want to make them mandatory targets without having the actual gameplan to hit those targets.

The issues that they raise are legitimate, I'll say that much though.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

ukcanuck wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:54 pm Double standards: The last "D" refers to the application of different sets of principles on similar situations. If a person criticizes Israel and only Israel on certain issues, but chooses to ignore similar situations conducted by other countries they are performing a double standard policy against Israel.

Okay...what other nations that occupy unceded territory do I not also criticize? Hmm… oh yeah! Canada!

*goes on and on and on with ridiculous Canada/Israel comparisons*

There. a bit of navel gazing to make sure i'm not holding a double standard...
Yeahno, "similar situations conducted by other countries" would be other military occupations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ccupations

Why have you never ranted and raved about any of those? :sly:

You're an antisemite alright, something you may have picked up during your decade+ in Muslim nations.

As for your Delegitimization + Demonization of Israel, well I linked to the thread, but now you've forced me to post snippets:

.....................................................................................................................................................
Strangelove wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:05 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Anyway yes, I did know that there are many Israeli citizens who are of palestinian decent, but they are marginalized and prevented from political power, it's a second class kind of citizenship at best. There used to be a road to that kind citizenship but evem that has been cutoff.
You're wrong about that.

Wikipedia is a good place to begin your research:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citiz ... _groupings

Fact: They are offered and receive full citizenship.
ukcanuck wrote: You would not believe the nasty shit Israel does that never reaches the west.
Beatings and torture of women and children,
You're right, I don't believe it.

(well it's no worse than the occasional police brutality we see in the UK or USA)
ukcanuck wrote: Sending warnings of pending missile attacks, telling gazan civilians over the radio to take shelter at local schools and hitting that school only to claim that hamas are using human shields are but two examples.
WOW you're completely fucked up.

In times of war, it's established fact that Hamas does indeed launch attacks from schools (etc).

It's established fact that Israel then warns West Bank civilians to vacate the area before retaliating.

Don't know what else to say, it's established fact that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.
ukcanuck wrote: The reaction is deny that claim but which side ever tells the truth?
Somewhere in the middle it makes sense to me
Yeahno, the truth does not lay halfway between the crap folks such as yourself pull out of their butts

.... and established fact. :hmmm:
ukcanuck wrote: given a real choice between the right to the pursuit of happiness and war famine and disease... People are going to choose happiness.
When their extremist religious views demand war, they choose war.

Their is no "famine and disease" in the palestinian territories. Image

Seriously, what THE FUCK is wrong with you!
ukcanuck wrote: As far as annihilation goes Topper is right to a degree, the ultimate endgame of what the isrealis are doing is annihilation.
Push and push inch by inch until the last palestianian is gone.
Topper never said that is what is happening.

And it's not.
..................................................................................................................................
ukcanuck wrote: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:04 pm Actually what it really looks like is a sham attempt to make it seem like Israel is being nice while occupying and terrorizing lands and people that do not belong to them.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
ukcanuck wrote: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:58 am Why should Israel deserve my support when clearly they are abusing innocent people to acheive their new Jerusalem?
......................................................................................................
ukcanuck wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:15 pm Israel is not innocent or a true democratic state that guarantees rights and privileges for all its citizens.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
ukcanuck wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:38 pm Notice any similarities between these people and certain nazi country in the 1930s ?
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
ukcanuck wrote: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:45 am Coordinates were given to 3300 palestianians civilians to take refuge at 6 schools "17" times by the Israelis before they flattened the buildings-claiming they didnt know...
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
..........................................................................................................

^ Delegitimization + Demonization of Israel.

Okay, the last quote below...

After I proved that you are spreading a lie (Re: Israel not warning Gaza)

… you shocked us all with your Jewish news conspiracy BS.

You claimed unsubstantiated sources that portray Israel as evil should be believed

… while all other sources saying otherwise, no matter how respected, must be ignored.

Then you have the audacity to say you’re not guilty of being antisemitic. :scowl:

ukcanuck wrote: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:12 pm
Strangelove wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: Edit: just curious about your insistence on fact, are you accepting that Israel warns where it's going to bomb as fact based on Israel's word for it?
Isn't that a bit like accepting testimony from the accused?
How is that corroborated?
You are completely out of touch with reality and should avoid any/all Israeli–Palestinian debates.

Don't sweat it though, a lot of hardcore leftists become paranoid & delusional over time.

Just the way she goes....

Israel is monitored very closely in these matters.

They warn palestinian citizens where needed/possible, they are famous for this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... ut-to-bomb

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... ass-threat

http://jcpa.org/article/hamas-israel-co ... al-points/

I could offer up thousands of links.

Google is your friend.
Jewish owned newspapers and clearly biased voices
You’re weird UK (and as anti-Semitic as it gets)...
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

ukcanuck wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:54 pm Not too sure how Sharansky would feel about you and Topper going on about final solutions, what's that all about?
Well Topper can joke about final solutions, but proven antisemites such as yourself probably shouldn't...

And note, just a few posts later in the same thread:
ukcanuck wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:31 pm
Strangelove wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:00 pm Annihilation is not an alternative at all, let alone "the only other alternative". :hmmm:
As far as annihilation goes Topper is right to a degree, the ultimate endgame of what the isrealis are doing is annihilation.
Push and push inch by inch until the last palestianian is gone.
Topper never said what the Israelis are doing is annihilation.

And I never joked about the final solution.

You were deceptive back then and you're deceptive now, some things never change...
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

Strangelove wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:50 pm
Yeahno, "similar situations conducted by other countries" would be other military occupations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ccupations

Why have you never ranted and raved about any of those? :sly:
I just want to point out that I have frequently ranted and raved over the Russian occupation of Crimea and the Donetsk/Luhansk area as well as their aggression against Georgia. I have to admit that I have never raised the issue of Transnistria, but rest assured that I oppose that invasion as well.

I have also complained about the Turkish invasion of Kurdish held areas in northern Syria, which came about as a direct result of former president Trump stabbing the Kurdish troops, that were Americas feet on the ground in the fight against Isis, in the back. A move that virtually all US top brass felt disgusted and humiliated by.

And even if I don’t think I have ever mentioned it on these here boards, I’m also of the firm opinion that the EU should pressure Morocco to withdraw from West Sahara so that this former Spanish colony can regain its independence.

We have sanctions in place against Russia, but we should also have that against Morocco.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by ukcanuck »

Per wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:19 am
Strangelove wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:50 pm
Yeahno, "similar situations conducted by other countries" would be other military occupations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ccupations

Why have you never ranted and raved about any of those? :sly:
I just want to point out that I have frequently ranted and raved over the Russian occupation of Crimea and the Donetsk/Luhansk area as well as their aggression against Georgia. I have to admit that I have never raised the issue of Transnistria, but rest assured that I oppose that invasion as well.

I have also complained about the Turkish invasion of Kurdish held areas in northern Syria, which came about as a direct result of former president Trump stabbing the Kurdish troops, that were Americas feet on the ground in the fight against Isis, in the back. A move that virtually all US top brass felt disgusted and humiliated by.

And even if I don’t think I have ever mentioned it on these here boards, I’m also of the firm opinion that the EU should pressure Morocco to withdraw from West Sahara so that this former Spanish colony can regain its independence.

We have sanctions in place against Russia, but we should also have that against Morocco.
The problem that Strangelove conveniently ignore is that the Wikipedia source lists occupations of nation state territories by other nation states but there is no Palestinian state to occupy and Israel is only listed in question as an occupying force in 1967 when they held territory belonging to other Middle East states from which they have withdrawn individually through various peace treaties as they quite rightly should and hats off to them for doing the right thing.

What Israel has done (as far as they are concerned) is occupy disputed territory, which absolves them of comparison to other truly evil occupations (nazis in Eastern Europe -soviet union etc)

Whether or not the Palestinian UN mandated territory is disputed or not is a matter of opinion argued in international courts but meanwhile in the vacuum of non-consensus

Israel bankrolled by the west, continues to settle those disputed territories making it nearly impossible to undo and whittles away the UN mandated partition. Yes, I know an argument could be made that the Palestinians had their chance in 1947 but blew it by immediately calling for the destruction of Israel.

However, I’m not interested in blame or guilt, I’m interested in a solution and the solution remains the same, a partition with two equal independent nations, Israel and Palestine. My point has been from the beginning, that that solution will not come from the barrel of a gun.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

ukcanuck wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 am there is no Palestinian state to occupy
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by ukcanuck »

Strangelove wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:56 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 am there is no Palestinian state to occupy
Image
:D :D

God love Jack Nicholson
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Topper »

US now pushing for a global minimum corporate tax.

The fail to recognize that corporate taxis are simply a cost of doing business. No different than labour costs, energy costs, raw material costs. These costs are passed along to the consumer.

They are not shifting the burden of taxes from the consumer to corporations.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

https://dateway.net/supreme-court-justi ... ed-speech/
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas Says Social Media Companies Do Not Have the Right to Ban Protected Speech

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas said the Supreme Court will soon have “no choice but to deal” with how speech is controlled by a few private social media platforms.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/vid ... n-veritas/
"Trump congratulates Project Veritas legal victory over New York Times for election fraud reporting"

"BIG WIN Against The New York Times in Veritas Defamation Lawsuit – Explains Massive Media Ramifications for the Future"


"The facts submitted by Veritas could indicate more than standard, garden variety media bias and support a plausible inference of actual malice," New York Supreme Court Justice Charles Wood wrote in the ruling. "There is a substantial basis in law to proceed to permit the plaintiff to conduct discovery and to then attempt to meet its higher standard of proving liability through clear and convincing evidence of actual malice."
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by ukcanuck »

Before I begin:

wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Ds_of_antisemitism

Your link to wikipedia provides an example of a criticism of Israel that descends into antisemitism. Here it is…
Example of application
Abraham Foxman gives the following example. During the Second Intifada, a cartoon of an Israeli soldier pointing a rifle at a Palestinian baby was published. This kind of scene is not antisemitism.

However, the baby was a typical depiction of the baby Jesus, who was telling (sic) to the soldier (in the caption), "Oh, you’re doing it to me all over again." Therefore, this is an example of the second "D", demonization via the antisemitic canard of Jewish deicide.

Let me rephrase this quote: An accusation of cruelty, or breaking international law, or just being a garden variety cunt is not racist or anti semitism However, linking the accusation to a antisemetic canard like the jews being responsible for the murder of Jesus is defamatory towards Judaism as a religion, and defamatory towards Jews as an ethnic group.

So that is the litmus (piss) test.

Has UK crossed the line from garden variety left wing cunt to antisemite?

Strangelove wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:50 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:54 pm

*goes on and on and on with ridiculous Canada/Israel comparisons*


Yeahno, "similar situations conducted by other countries" would be other military occupations:

wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_occupations

Why have you never ranted and raved about any of those? :sly:

You're an antisemite alright, something you may have picked up during your decade+ in Muslim nations.

As for your Delegitimization + Demonization of Israel, well I linked to the thread, but now you've forced me to post snippets:

Well you forced me from my phone to a laptop in order to link quotes, so I think we are even…

So -

Point 1. There really is no current comparison to the occupation of palestine. There is no actual Palestine nation state for Israel to occupy, as you probably already know Israel returned land taken from Egypt and other Arab States in due course as a matter of international law and I'm perfectly fine with that. The issue is occupying disputed Palestinian territory which is legal vaccuum in which Israel’s government can operate mostly unchecked and they have…

As this report from Amnesty International suggests
Israel continued to impose institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians living under its rule in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT). It displaced hundreds of Palestinians in Israel and the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as a result of home demolitions and imposition of other coercive measures. Israeli forces continued to use excessive force during law enforcement activities in Israel and the OPT. Israeli forces killed 31 Palestinians, including nine children, in the OPT; many were unlawfully killed while posing no imminent threat to life. Israel maintained its illegal blockade on the Gaza Strip, subjecting its residents to collective punishment and deepening the humanitarian crisis there. It also continued to restrict freedom of movement of Palestinians in the OPT through checkpoints and roadblocks. The Israeli authorities arbitrarily detained in Israel thousands of Palestinians from the OPT, holding hundreds in administrative detention without charge or trial. Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees, including children, were committed with impunity. The authorities used a range of measures to target human rights defenders, journalists and others who criticized Israel’s continuing occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Syrian Golan Heights. Violence against women persisted, especially against Palestinian citizens of Israel. The authorities denied asylum-seekers access to a fair or prompt refugee status determination process. Conscientious objectors to military service were imprisoned.

www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-eas ... rritories/

As I mentioned in my last post, really the only similar occupation of disputed territory (OPT) was (and is?) The settlement of the US, Canada, Australia and perhaps NZ by anglo colonialism. These countries' treatment of preexisting cultures or societies or civilizations is probably the same. The elimination of indiginous peoples either as a political force, a military force or a financial force in short a zero -sum game or “extreme prejudice”

However, as Per points out there are several examples of countries doing despicable things and if this thread was called the Occupation of Ukraine or the Cheap Shit Bombing of Women and Children in Yemen I would be just as finger up your nose objectionable about those too

Anyway let’s move on


Point 2
.....................................................................................................................................................
Strangelove wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:05 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Anyway yes, I did know that there are many Israeli citizens who are of palestinian decent, but they are marginalized and prevented from political power, it's a second class kind of citizenship at best. There used to be a road to that kind citizenship but evem that has been cutoff.

You're wrong about that.

Wikipedia is a good place to begin your research:

wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Sectarian_and_religious_groupings

Fact: They are offered and receive full citizenship.

Also Fact according to your link…

Representation in the Knesset
In 2011, [only] 13 of the 120 members of the Israeli Parliament are Arab citizens, most representing Arab political parties, and one of Israel's Supreme Court judges is a Palestinian Arab. -What can 13 MKs do but be a token presence to fulfill Israel’s Constitution as a free inclusive democracy?
It’s not a true representative democracy and it seems your link agrees with me.
The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab Israelis are citizens of Israel with equal rights" and states that "The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces … Many Arab citizens feel that the state, as well as society at large, not only actively limits them to second-class citizenship, but treats them as enemies, affecting their perception of the de jure versus de facto quality of their citizenship.

The joint document The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, asserts: [b]"Defining the Israeli State as a Jewish State and exploiting democracy in the service of its Jewishness excludes us, and creates tension between us and the nature and essence of the State." [/b]
The document explains that by definition the "Jewish State" concept is based on ethnically preferential treatment towards Jews enshrined in immigration (the Law of Return) and land policy (the Jewish National Fund), and calls for the establishment of minority rights protections enforced by an independent anti-discrimination commission.

Israeli High Court Justice (Ret.) Theodor Or wrote in The Report by the State Commission of Inquiry into the Events of October 2000:

The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority's awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation.

So yeah no, not only is my original point valid AND supported by your own link, it also passes the piss test since the cuntduggery that Israel is up to may be objectionable to your Christian Zionist viewpoint but it does not use antisemtic tropes.


Point 3
ukcanuck wrote: You would not believe the nasty shit Israel does that never reaches the west.
Beatings and torture of women and children,
strangelove wrote:You're right, I don't believe it.

(well it's no worse than the occasional police brutality we see in the UK or USA)

Are you sure?
The following list is extensive, fact based with details, rings true and passes the piss test again.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/mi ... erritories
Background
Israel held parliamentary elections in March, the third in just over a year. In May, the two largest parties in the Knesset, Likud and the Blue and White alliance, reached a power-sharing agreement that included an announcement that Israel would further annex territories in the occupied West Bank starting in July 2020. This followed US President Donald Trump’s announcement of his “deal of the century”, which included a formal extension of Israel’s sovereignty over the Jordan Valley and the vast majority of the illegal settlements in the rest of the occupied West Bank in exchange for land currently inside Israel. Israel postponed the annexation plans following diplomatic deals with the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain in September.
  • Israel imposed lockdown measures in March and in September to contain the spread of COVID-19, triggering waves of protests calling on the Prime Minister to step down. The measures allowed the Israel Security Agency (ISA) to use surveillance capabilities usually reserved for Palestinians to trace COVID-19 infections. The Prime Minister’s trial on corruption charges began in May.
  • In February, the Palestinian armed group Islamic Jihad fired around 80 rockets and mortar shells from the Gaza Strip towards Israel, causing minor injuries to over 20 people, after Israeli forces killed an Islamic Jihad operative. The Israeli army carried out multiple airstrikes in Gaza, injuring 12 Palestinians, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza.
  • In August and September, Israel launched artillery and airstrikes against Gaza in retaliation for incendiary balloons and kites launched from Gaza into Israel. Palestinian armed groups launched indiscriminate rockets into Israel in response.
  • In August, Israel launched airstrikes against Hizbullah targets in Lebanon after it said that shots were fired from Lebanon into Israel. Israel also launched airstrikes against Iranian and Hizbullah targets in Syria.
  • In July, a district court rejected a case to force the Ministry of Defense to revoke the export licence of spyware company NSO Group, dealing a blow to victims of unlawful and targeted international surveillance.

Forcible transfers, forced evictions and demolitions
  • Israel demolished 848 Palestinian residential and livelihood structures in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, displacing 996 people, according to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). Israeli authorities said many of the demolished buildings lacked Israeli-issued permits, which are virtually impossible for Palestinians to obtain, or were in closed military zones. The law of occupation prohibits such destruction unless necessary for military operations.
  • In other cases, Israel confiscated residential and livelihood structures, including some that were donated for humanitarian purposes. Israeli forces also punitively demolished at least six Palestinian homes, leaving 22 people, including seven children, homeless, according to B'Tselem. Punitive demolitions constitute collective punishment and are prohibited under international law.
  • On 5 March, Israeli forces demolished the homes of Walid Hanatsheh, in Ramallah, and Yazan Mughamis, in Birzeit, displacing six Palestinians, after an Israeli court rejected a petition by the families against the punitive demolition. On 11 March, Israeli forces punitively demolished the home of Qassam Barghouti in Kobar village near Ramallah. The three men are in prison in Israel for alleged involvement in an attack in August 2019 that killed an Israeli civilian and injured two others outside Ramallah city in the occupied West Bank.
  • Israeli settler organizations initiated, with the support of the Israeli authorities, forcible evictions of Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem.
  • OCHA estimated in December that around 200 Palestinian households in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, had eviction cases pending against them, placing 800 adults and children at risk of displacement.
  • Israeli authorities demolished at least 29 residential and livelihood structures that belonged to Bedouin citizens living in “unrecognized” villages in the Negev/Naqab, according to the Negev Coexistence Forum, an Israeli NGO.
Discrimination
Israel continued to discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in areas of planning, budget allocation, policing and political participation. According to the Adalah-The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, Israel maintains over 65 laws that discriminate against Palestinians.
  • Local Palestinian councils in Israel went on strike to protest against discrimination in the distribution of the state budget for local councils. The vast majority of Palestinians in Israel, comprising over 20% of the total population, live in around 139 towns and villages. They received only 1.7% of the state budget for local councils.
  • In August, Adalah and the Arab Center for Alternative Planning filed a petition to the Israeli Supreme Court on behalf of 10 local Palestinian councils and dozens of Palestinian citizens of Israel against government policy discriminating against these communities in the distribution of housing, construction and land development benefits compared to neighbouring Jewish communities that enjoy higher socio-economic status and have access to such benefits.
  • Israel continued to deny Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza married to Palestinian citizens of Israel the right to nationality by enforcing the discriminatory Entry to Israel Law.
  • In December, the magistrate court in Krayot, near Haifa, rejected a petition for access to education by Palestinian citizens of Israel living in Karmiel, citing the discriminatory Nation State Law. The decision said that establishing an Arabic school in the town or funding transport for its Palestinian residents to study in Arabic schools in nearby communities would undermine the town’s “Jewish character”.
  • In December, the Israeli Health Ministry began the distribution of COVID-19 vaccines that excluded the nearly 5 million Palestinians who live under Israeli military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Unlawful killings and excessive use of force
Israeli military and police used unnecessary and excessive force during law enforcement activities, including search and arrest operations, and when policing demonstrations.
  • Military and security forces killed at least 31 Palestinians, including nine children, in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, according to OCHA. Many were unlawfully killed by live ammunition or other excessive force when posing no imminent threat to life. Some of the unlawful killings appeared to be wilful, which would constitute war crimes.
  • Israeli forces frequently used excessive force against protesters in Kufr Qadum who continued weekly protests against settlements and settlement expansion. According to OCHA, 214 protesters and bystanders were injured during the year.
  • On 15 February, Israeli forces shot and injured in the eye nine-year-old Malek Issa while he was returning home from school in the East Jerusalem neighbourhood of Issawiya. No clashes were recorded at the time, according to OCHA. Israeli forces were maintaining a violent and intense police operation in Issawiya as a form of collective punishment.
  • Israeli forces frequently opened fire on fishermen and farmers in Gaza. According to Al Mezan Center for Human Rights, 12 fishermen and five farmers were injured.
Freedom of movement
For the 13th consecutive year, Israel continued its illegal air, land and sea blockade of the Gaza Strip, restricting the movement of people and goods in and out of the area, which continued to have a devastating impact on the human rights of Gaza’s 2 million inhabitants. Israel stopped the entry of construction materials and fuel into Gaza repeatedly. This shut down the only power plant in Gaza, leading to a further reduction in the supply of electricity, which had already been available for only about four hours a day. Israel also imposed a full maritime closure and repeatedly limited entry of goods to food and medicine only. The measures amounted to collective punishment at a time of increasing COVID-19 infections in Gaza.
  • On 2 February, following an exchange of attacks between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups, Israel cancelled the permits of 500 traders from Gaza that enable their holders to travel to Israel and the West Bank for business. The permits were reactivated on 18 February.
  • On 18 June, Omar Yaghi, a baby with a cardiac condition, died in Gaza after Israel denied the family a permit to enter Israel for a scheduled operation on 24 May at the Sheba Medical Center in Ramat Gan city.
  • In the West Bank, at least 593 Israeli checkpoints and roadblocks continued to heavily restrict the movement of Palestinians and access to rights, including health, education and work. Holders of Palestinian identification cards faced an ongoing bar on using roads built for Israeli settlers.
  • Israeli restrictions on freedom of movement continued to impede Palestinians’ access to health care, posing further threats to vulnerable populations during the COVID-19 pandemic. Lack of access to hospitals and specialized clinics during the pandemic particularly affected Palestinian residents of the East Jerusalem neighbourhoods of Kufr Aqab and Shu’fat Refugee Camp, which are segregated from the rest of the city by military structures, including checkpoints, and the fence/wall.
Arbitrary detention
Israeli authorities conducted hundreds of raids throughout the West Bank to arrest Palestinians, usually at their homes at night. Those arrested were detained in prisons in Israel, along with thousands of other Palestinians from the OPT arrested in previous years. This violated international humanitarian law, which prohibits the transfer of detainees into the territory of the occupying power.
  • Israeli authorities used renewable administrative detention orders to hold Palestinians without charge or trial. Some 4,300 Palestinians from the OPT, including 397 administrative detainees, were held in Israeli prisons as of December, according to the Israel Prison Service. Many families of Palestinian detainees in Israel, particularly those living in Gaza, were not permitted entry to Israel to visit their relatives.
  • On 16 July, Israeli forces arrested Iyad Barghouti, an astrophysicist and professor at Jerusalem’s Al-Quds University, at a checkpoint near Jerusalem and placed him in administrative detention. He had previously been administratively detained in 2014 and 2016.
  • Israel held 157 Palestinian children in prison, including two in administrative detention, as of October. Defense for Children International Palestine said that children were interrogated without their parents present and placed with adults in prison. Under international law, detention of children should be a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate time.
Unfair trials
Palestinian civilians, including children, from the OPT were prosecuted in military courts that did not meet international fair trial standards.
Torture and other ill-treatment
Israeli soldiers, police and ISA officers continued to torture and otherwise ill-treat Palestinian detainees, including children, with impunity. Reported methods included beating, slapping, painful shackling, sleep deprivation, use of stress positions and threats of violence against family members. Prolonged solitary confinement, sometimes lasting months, was commonly used as a punishment.
  • Israeli forces occasionally denied medical help for Palestinians injured during law enforcement activities.
Freedoms of expression and association
The authorities used a range of measures, including raids, incitement campaigns, movement restrictions and judicial harassment, to target human rights defenders who criticized Israel’s continuing military occupation of Palestinian and Syrian territories.
  • Israel continued to deny human rights bodies entry to the OPT, including the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the OPT.
  • On 30 July, Israeli forces arrested Mahmoud Nawajaa, a human rights defender and co-ordinator of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement in the occupied West Bank, from his home in Ramallah. A prisoner of conscience, he was released without charge on 17 August.
  • On 13 November, the Jerusalem District Court rejected a petition by Amnesty International against the arbitrary and punitive travel ban imposed on its employee, human rights defender Laith Abu Zeyad. For undisclosed reasons, Israeli security forces continued to bar him from entering occupied East Jerusalem and from travelling abroad through Jordan.
Rights of refugees, asylum-seekers and migrants
Israel continued to deny asylum-seekers access to a fair and prompt refugee status determination process, leaving many without access to basic services. About 31,000 asylum-seekers were living in Israel.
Gender-based violence
Violence against women persisted in Israel, especially against Palestinian citizens.
  • At least 21 women were killed as a result of gender-based violence.
Conscientious objectors
  • At least four Israeli conscientious objectors to military service were imprisoned. Hillel Rabin spent 56 days in military prison for refusing to serve in the Israeli army citing oppressive policies against Palestinians.


Point 4

The Al-Fakhura school incident

ukcanuck wrote: Sending warnings of pending missile attacks, telling gazan civilians over the radio to take shelter at local schools and hitting that school only to claim that hamas are using human shields are but two examples.
strangelove wrote:WOW you're completely fucked up.

In times of war, it's established fact that Hamas does indeed launch attacks from schools (etc).

It's established fact that Israel then warns West Bank civilians to vacate the area before retaliating.

Don't know what else to say, it's established fact that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.

Ah yes the infamous David Norris quote:
On Israeli crimes

There are no words to describe what happened yesterday … Six attacks on schools! and these are deliberate, I have no doubt … You had 3,000 people sheltering there. They were directed there by Israel! The coordinates were given 17 times! How can anybody claim that they didn’t know what they were doing? Israel shoots first and weeps after. ‘Oh, did we hit children? What a terrible tragedy.’ Nobody believes you anymore! You’re doing this to exert pressure on Hamas.

The gay Irish Politician whose accusations on his sexual persuasion seems to matter to you more than the truth.

well here are a couple of other sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhur ... 0civilians.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle ... 30045.html

The al-Fakhura School incident was an Israeli military strike that took place during the Gaza War on 6 January 2009 near a United Nations-run school in the Jabalia Camp in the Gaza Strip. According to UN and several non-governmental organizations (NGOs), more than 40 people were killed, most of them civilians. Israel reported the death toll as 9 Hamas militants and 3 noncombatants with senior IDF officers stating that the death toll published by Hamas was "grossly exaggerated".[5] Israel stated it fired on the school in response to militant gunfire believed to be coming from al-Fakhura. A UN inquiry said that there was no firing from within the school and there were no explosives within the school.
Israeli accounts
Initial Israeli accounts
The IDF originally said that Hamas militants were inside the school,[6] firing rockets and mortars.[1][11] The next day, it was said that a mortar was fired from the playground.[9] The IDF stated that among the Hamas gunmen inside the school were Imad and Hassan Abu-Askar, known to the IDF as Hamas rocket-launching operatives,[12][13] and said to have found their bodies following the attack.[11] The Israeli military declared that it responded with a single shell at the school, resulting in an explosion because Hamas had booby-trapped the school.[3][9]
An Israeli government spokesman said that "the incident was a ′very extreme example of how Hamas operates′", and "If you take over - I presume with guns - a UN facility. If you hold the people there as hostages, you shoot out of that facility at Israeli soldiers in the neighbourhood, then you receive incoming fire".[12] An Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson said that a Hamas squad was firing mortar shells from the immediate vicinity of the school.[14]
On 6 January, the IDF released a video footage from 2007, showing Palestinian militants firing from the school compound and carrying a rocket launcher with them as they flee the scene.[15]
According to Haaretz, a preliminary investigation found that the army's location system to pinpoint launch sites indicated that Hamas militants had launched a Qassam rocket into Israel from within a yard adjacent to the schoolyard. The troops had intended to launch a smart missile but a technical malfunction made this impossible. Instead mortar shells were used. Due to a GPS error margin of 30 meters, one of three rounds hit the UNRWA building. Two of the rounds hit the yard used to launch rockets into Israel, killing two members of Hamas' military wing.[16]
Subsequent Israeli account
On April 22, 2009, the IDF announced the results of its internal investigation on Operation Cast Lead. The report found that Hamas had fired mortar shells at a position 80 meters from the school and that the IDF used "minimal and proportionate retaliatory fire" afterward. It also concluded that the IDF "did not, at any time, fire with the deliberate intention to hit a UN vehicle or facility" at any point in the conflict.
Palestinian accounts[edit]
A Hamas spokesman, said allegations that militants had used the school to attack Israeli forces were baseless.[12] Abdel Minaim Hasan who lost his eldest daughter, Lina, 11, wept by her body wrapped in a Hamas flag. The New York Times reported that he cried out: "From now on I am Hamas! ... I choose resistance!" He also cursed the Arab nation, shouting, "The Arabs are doing nothing to protect us!"[18] Huda Deed who lost nine members of her extended family, ages 3 to 25, was also weeping and standing before the bodies of the dead remarked, "Look, they’ve lined them up like a ruler!" When asked for an interview by Al-Aqsa TV, the Hamas channel, she refused.[18] Mushir al-Masri, a senior Hamas official who emerged from hiding to attend the funeral, commended the dead and called them martyrs. According to The New York Times, some parents greeted him by shaking his hand while others stared at him coldly.
United Nations accounts
John Ging, Director of UNRWA operations, said that three shells had landed "at the perimeter of the school".[19] He said Israel knew it was targeting a UN facility.[20][21] OCHA reported on 6 January that the missile strikes had been outside the school. The report stated that UNRWA had rejected Israeli statements that the school was being used to fire mortars at the Israeli army.[22] In its report of the following day, however, OCHA said the school itself had been shelled.[23] On 2 February, OCHA corrected the statement, clarifying that the shelling, and all of the fatalities, took place outside rather than inside the school.[24] OCHA and UNRWA denied that they had ever verbally accused Israel of hitting the school.[6] Several news agencies said that the UN had backtracked from its original statement that the strike had hit the school.[25][26]
On 8 January, an UNRWA spokesman said that the IDF admitted that they had not responded to shelling originating from the school, and said that the attack on the UN site was unintentional. They also said that all the video footage released by the IDF of militants firing from inside the school was from 2007 and not from the incident itself.[27]
According to an Israeli Government report published on July 2009, the UN Board of Inquiry was unable to reach any conclusion whether or not mortars were being fired and directed against the IDF from near to the school...[the Board] was not in a position to assess whether [more precise] means of response was available to the IDF at the time and, if it was not, the length and consequences of any delay until it might have become available.
The UNHRC fact-finding mission report in September 2009 criticized the choice of weapons for the counterstrike and said the IDF had violated the law of proportionality.[28]
In the initial response to the UNHRC fact-finding mission report, Israeli Government replied that the committee findings reflect the oversimplistic approach to complex military challenges during the fighting, implying that the mission members did not possess the information that was known to the force's commander at the time of the attack regarding the immediate threat, weapon's availability and potential risks to civilians.[29]
According to a UN Board of Inquiry there was no firing from within the school and no explosives within the school. The Board could not establish with certainty whether there had been any firing from the vicinity of the school.
Eyewitness accounts
According to Mouin Gasser, a 45-year-old teacher, the area around the school was hit four times in about two minutes by the shells that landed just outside the school. Gasser said that he did not see any militants in the area.[30]
Hanan Abu Khajib said that Hamas militants fired just outside the school compound, likely from the secluded courtyard of a house across the street some 25 yards from the school, and that Israeli return fire minutes later landed outside the school along its southwest wall, killing two Hamas fighters.[31]
Two unnamed residents, who spoke to an Associated Press reporter by phone on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisal, said a group of militants had been firing mortar shells rounds from a street close to the school.[12][32] Jonathan Miller wrote in a Channel 4 story that "local residents in the street told me that militants had been firing rockets – as the IDF stated – and having been targeted in retaliatory fire by the IDF, they ran down the street past the school."[33][34] Residents of the neighborhood said two brothers who were Hamas fighters were in the area at the time of the attack.[18] The Israeli military identified the brothers as Imad Abu Asker and Hassan Abu Asker, and said they had been killed.[18] Residents also said that the mortar fire had not come from the school compound, but from elsewhere in the neighborhood.[18]
Shadi Abu Shanar who worked as a guard at the school said: "Suddenly I heard a number of explosions at the gate. I went out onto the street and found dead bodies and wounded people lying on the ground. Most of them were cut into pieces. The street was full of people. I was about to pass out because of what I saw. The shells landed in a range of 20 to 40 meters around the school. The school was full of people."[30]
Four witness statements collected by Defence for Children International-Palestine section indicate that the area was quiet, and that adults and children were going about their daily business.
Casualties
Some reports state over 40 people were killed in the incident, most of them civilians, but the IDF state that 12 people died, 9 of them Hamas militants.[35]The Guardian stated that, while the school itself was targeted, the majority of those killed were not in the school but in the playground and nearby street.[9]
On 15 February 2009, The Jerusalem Post published the IDF account of the Palestinian fatalities in the incident. According to IDF's Gaza Coordination and Liaison Administration (CLA), 12 Palestinians were killed – 9 Hamas operatives and 3 noncombatants. The CLA also stated that the IDF was returning fire after coming under attack, that its shells did not hit the school compound, and that this has been acknowledged by the UN. Colonel Moshe Levi, head of the CLA said that: "From the beginning, Hamas stated that 42 people were killed, but we could see from our surveillance that only a few stretchers were brought in to evacuate people".[35] The Jerusalem Post quotes CLA officials stating that on the day of the incident officers from the CLA contacted the Palestinian Health Ministry and were told that 3 Palestinian civilians had been killed and that Hamas was hiding the identities of the remaining casualties.

and finally we get to the quotes I asked you for and whether or not I said anything antisemtic.
ukcanuck wrote: The reaction is deny that claim but which side ever tells the truth?
Somewhere in the middle it makes sense to me
Sorry no antisemetic tropes mentioned
ukcanuck wrote: given a real choice between the right to the pursuit of happiness and war famine and disease... People are going to choose happiness.
Sorry no antisemetic tropes mentioned
ukcanuck wrote: As far as annihilation goes Topper is right to a degree, the ultimate endgame of what the israelis are doing is annihilation.
Push and push inch by inch until the last palestianian is gone.
Sorry no antisemetic tropes mentioned
ukcanuck wrote: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:04 pm Actually what it really looks like is a sham attempt to make it seem like Israel is being nice while occupying and terrorizing lands and people that do not belong to them.
Sorry no antisemetic tropes mentioned
ukcanuck wrote: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:58 am Why should Israel deserve my support when clearly they are abusing innocent people to achieve their new Jerusalem?
Sorry no antisemetic tropes mentioned
ukcanuck wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:15 pm Israel is not innocent or a true democratic state that guarantees rights and privileges for all its citizens.
Sorry no antisemetic tropes mentioned
ukcanuck wrote: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:38 pm Notice any similarities between these people and certain nazi country in the 1930s ?
Sorry no antisemetic tropes mentioned
ukcanuck wrote: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:45 am Coordinates were given to 3300 palestianians civilians to take refuge at 6 schools "17" times by the Israelis before they flattened the buildings-claiming they didnt know...
Sorry no antisemetic tropes mentioned
strangelove wrote: Okay, the last quote below...

After I proved that you are spreading a lie (Re: Israel not warning Gaza)

… you shocked us all with your Jewish news conspiracy BS.

You claimed unsubstantiated sources that portray Israel as evil should be believed

… while all other sources saying otherwise, no matter how respected, must be ignored.

Then you have the audacity to say you’re not guilty of being antisemitic. :scowl:


Unsubstantiated sources?
  • The Wikipedia Links you provided
  • Additional wikipedia links
  • Amnesty International
  • The independent.co.uk



Point 5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking

Roof Knocking
As early as 2006 the IDF had the practice of warning the inhabitants of a building that was about to be attacked. Roof knocking was used during the 2008–2009 Gaza War, Operation Pillar of Defense in 2012, and Operation Protective Edge in 2014. In the six months prior to its use, Israel collected data on Hamas members, which they used to issue warnings.[6] Typically, Israeli intelligence officers and Shin Bet security servicemen contacted residents of a building in which they suspected storage of military assets and told them that they had 10–15 minutes to flee the attack, although in some cases the delay has been as little as five minutes.
ukcanuck wrote: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:12 pm
Strangelove wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: Edit: just curious about your insistence on fact, are you accepting that Israel warns where it's going to bomb as fact based on Israel's word for it?
Isn't that a bit like accepting testimony from the accused?
How is that corroborated?
You are completely out of touch with reality and should avoid any/all Israeli–Palestinian debates.

Don't sweat it though, a lot of hardcore leftists become paranoid & delusional over time.

Just the way she goes....

Israel is monitored very closely in these matters.

They warn palestinian citizens where needed/possible, they are famous for this...


I could offer up thousands of links.

Google is your friend.
Jewish owned newspapers and clearly biased voices
You’re weird UK (and as anti-Semitic as it gets)...
[/quote]

Controversy
The practice has been controversial, as many human rights and news organizations have shown the 'roof knocks' to kill and injure civilians.[14] In July, 2014, Amnesty International called for a United Nations investigation into what it alleged were war crimes committed by Israeli fighters, and Philip Luther, Middle East and North Africa Programme Director for the organization, condemned the practice.[23] The spokesperson for Gaza Health Ministry indicated that the same missiles used to give warnings are also used in assassinations, resulting in dozens of casualties and deaths where "remains were scattered, making it impossible to identify them immediately".[24]
  • The Goldstone Report commented that civilians inside their homes "cannot be expected to know whether a small explosion is a warning of an impending attack or part of an actual attack". It stated that the practice is not an effective advance warning, and is instead likely to "cause terror and confuse the affected civilians".
  • According to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, the warning of inhabitants by Israeli forces is psychological warfare,[11] and after the first week of the Operation Cast Lead offensive, only 37 houses had been destroyed despite hundreds of warning calls, while no one can advise people not to take the threats seriously.[26] In other cases, houses in Gaza Strip were bombed without any warning. For example, on July 12, 2014, an Israeli airstrike without any warning on the home of Gaza's police chief, Tayseer Al-Batsh, and a nearby mosque as evening prayers ended, killed 18 civilians, including children.
  • The Israeli Government stated "While these warnings, could not eliminate all harm to civilians, they were frequently effective," and that aerial video surveillance by IDF forces showed civilians departing from targeted areas prior to an attack as a direct result of the warnings.[28] According to the Israeli army, striking homes suspected of storing weapons, when sufficient warning is given to the residents, falls within the boundaries of international law and is legitimate.[29] In November 2014, the most senior US military official, General Martin Dempsey, cited "roof knocking" as an example where Israel "did some extraordinary things to limit civilian casualties" during Operation Protective Edge.
.
  • Amnesty International has reported in a statement that it "does not have evidence at this point" that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to "shield" specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks". It additionally said that "public statements referring to entire areas are not the same as directing specific civilians to remain in their homes as "human shields" for fighters, munitions, or military equipment" and that "even if officials or fighters from Hamas or Palestinian armed groups ... did in fact direct civilians to remain in a specific location in order to shield military objectives ..., all of Israel's obligations to protect these civilians would still apply." Human Rights Watch said many of the attacks on civilian targets appeared to be "disproportionate" and "indiscriminate".
  • Salah Abdul Ati, the directory of the Palestinian Independent Commission for Human Rights in Gaza, described the "policy of destroying homes" a war crime and accused Israel of attempting to circumvent international law to avoid accountability.
  • Marouf Hasian Jr., a professor of Communication at the University of Utah, describes the talk of the "beneficent usage" of "knock on roof" tactics as one that "plays well in front of American or Israeli audiences who feel that older Geneva Convention rules are too 'quaint' and too solicitous of the rights of civilians who may be aiding and abetting terrorist, but it infuriates critics who argue that satellite surveillance is being used in discriminatory systems that assume that homes of police officers or Hamas political or military leaders can be "precisely" targeted to minimize collateral damage"

Personally I think that the fact that Israel can phone a house in the Palestinian disputed territories and drop a bomb on the place with a ten minute warning is testament to the power of life and death Israel has over the lives of Palestinians.


I may be weird and at times maybe I am as miserable as a Cuntservative myself, but I am not an antisemite. None - not one, of my comments are antisemetic in any way.

My comments maybe ignorant as far as your concerned, they may be unduly harsh, they may upset your sensibilities ---they may even be wrong (though I doubt that) however they are not antisemetic.

So there we have it. Please do not call me an antisemite, its factually incorrect and it is an unwelcome distraction in any civilized debate

BTW I paid up the 100 dollars to CC anyway cause Brian deserves it. But that should be not construed by you as any kind of admission that I am anything other than a cunt who hates conservative politics
Last edited by ukcanuck on Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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