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Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:14 pm
by Strangelove
ukcanuck wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:29 am
Slaps forehead, of course it’s not human activities causing climate change. It’s human activities starting fires!
You didn't know humans are to blame for some forest/bush fires? :eh:

ukcanuck wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:29 am
Why didn’t I see it before?!
Because you're a fully-indoctrinated, brainwashed, goosestepping moron? :drink:

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:24 pm
by ukcanuck
Strangelove wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:14 pm
ukcanuck wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:29 am
Slaps forehead, of course it’s not human activities causing climate change. It’s human activities starting fires!
You didn't know humans are to blame for some forest/bush fires? :eh:

ukcanuck wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:29 am
Why didn’t I see it before?!
Because you're a fully-indoctrinated, brainwashed, goosestepping moron? :drink:
Hah, sarcasm too much for you?

Let’s try

Humans causing massive forest fires = anthropogenic climate change. :shock:

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:40 pm
by Strangelove
ukcanuck wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:24 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:14 pm
ukcanuck wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:29 am
Slaps forehead, of course it’s not human activities causing climate change. It’s human activities starting fires!
You didn't know humans are to blame for some forest/bush fires? :eh:

ukcanuck wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:29 am
Why didn’t I see it before?!
Because you're a fully-indoctrinated, brainwashed, goosestepping moron? :drink:
Hah, sarcasm too much for you?

Let’s try

Humans causing massive forest fires = anthropogenic climate change. :shock:
UMMMM. Forest fires don't cause climate change. :roll:

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:50 pm
by Per
Strangelove wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:40 pm
UMMMM. Forest fires don't cause climate change. :roll:
In theory they can.

The burning of plants releases CO2. If the amount released excedes the amount bound by forest growth in a given period it could have an effect. But it would take enormous amounts of burnt forest to have a really noticeable effect. If eg the entire Amazon rain forest disappears, that would have a major impact on global climate.

Also, given that forests bind water, a major reduction of forests can have a huge impact on the local climate, as has been seen in parts of northern Brazil that have suffered severe droughts as a result of clear cutting of the rain forest in the entire region. A major reforestation project in the Sahara desert could have the opposite effect, but would be very costly.

Anyway, even though the destruction of rain forest may have some effect on the climate, it’s fairly minor compared to the usage of fossil fuels, where we dig up carbon that has been bound for millions of years and add it to the ”normal” amount present in the atmosphere. This amount has basically doubled since the start of the industrial revolution, so it’s no wonder we are beginning to see some consequences of it.

Still no snow here. And even if I appreciate not having to shovel the driveway, it is freaky. Several Swedish ski resorts have given up and are closing for the season as they do not see any possibilities of getting prepared slopes in order at any time this ”winter”. They need below zero temperatures to be able to make snow, and we won’t have that for at least another two weeks, and even if temperatures do drop, they then need four weeks of intense work to get the slopes in order, and by then it’s already March and we approach the end of the skiing season.
Cherry trees in the Stockholm area are beginning to bloom. In freaking January, and people are finding chanterelles in the forest. Hmmm... maybe I should go check my favourite chanterelle spots...

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:34 am
by Micky
.
Quite the opposite here. Cold as hell. More snow then in quite a while. Ski resorts are tickled pink :devil: reminds me of 20 / 30 / 40 years ago.

Image

Less forest fires this last summer too.
Personally, I'd like to see the fire place ban lifted in the Vancouver area. I miss that so much, damn it.

Image

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:39 pm
by Strangelove
Per wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:43 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:56 pm
Image

(data for pie chart: https://sciencing.com/elements-makeup-e ... 51571.html )

(the thin red line is the CO2... can you see it?)

Very little CO2 in the atmosphere.

To say a ridiculously slight rise in that minuscule amount would significantly affect the global climate is patently absurd.

Per, your "Scientific consensus" is politics, not Science...
Yeahno, that’s not how it works.

”To say the ridiculously miniscule amount of plutonium I laced your beer with would significantly affect your health is patently absurd...” :drink:
What's ridiculous is... that analogy.

CO2 is not poisonous, lol...

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm
by Per
Strangelove wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:39 pm
Per wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:43 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:56 pm
Image

(data for pie chart: https://sciencing.com/elements-makeup-e ... 51571.html )

(the thin red line is the CO2... can you see it?)

Very little CO2 in the atmosphere.

To say a ridiculously slight rise in that minuscule amount would significantly affect the global climate is patently absurd.

Per, your "Scientific consensus" is politics, not Science...
Yeahno, that’s not how it works.

”To say the ridiculously miniscule amount of plutonium I laced your beer with would significantly affect your health is patently absurd...” :drink:
What's ridiculous is... that analogy.

CO2 is not poisonous, lol...
No, but the idea that a small amount of something won't make any difference is even more ridiculous.

Here's an idea, fill your bath tub with water. Then let loose a handful of water skeeters in it. Watch them run across the surface of the water.
Then add one drop of detergent and see what happens to the poor bugs.

Oxygen and nitrogen let the sunshine through. Carbon dioxide locks it in, like the windows of a greenhouse.
Double the amount of CO2 and the greenhouse effect will increase.

Mind you, the greenhouse effect is not bad per se. If it weren't for the green house gasses (of which CO2 is the most important) the earth would be a giant snow ball. Thanks to the greenhouse effect it is hospitable for us.

The only problem is that we're adapted to the climat that's been around since the dinosaurs died out. The earth used to be a lot warmer, and with us digging up all the carbon that's been trapped in the ground and releasing it into the atmosphere again, it is likely to get warmer again. It's not the end of the earth, but it may render some areas that are populated today inhospitable, so prepare to see a lot more of that.

Eg, do not consider beachfront property in Florida a long term investment.... :drink:

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:32 pm
by 5thhorseman
Per wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm
Here's an idea, fill your bath tub with water. Then let loose a handful of water skeeters in it. Watch them run across the surface of the water.
Then add one drop of detergent and see what happens to the poor bugs.
Holy fuck Per. What does your wife say when she sees you doing that? "Don't kill me, please!"

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:19 am
by Per
5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:32 pm
Per wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm
Here's an idea, fill your bath tub with water. Then let loose a handful of water skeeters in it. Watch them run across the surface of the water.
Then add one drop of detergent and see what happens to the poor bugs.
Holy fuck Per. What does your wife say when she sees you doing that? "Don't kill me, please!"
Lol! I don't actually do that, but when people wash their hair (or clothes) outdoors, the water skeeters are in for a surprise.

Just trying to get Doc to understand that a drop in a bath tub can change everything, even if it is 0.00001% of the total.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:38 am
by Micky
Or a fart from Etna.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:43 am
by Strangelove
Per wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:39 pm
Per wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:43 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:56 pm
Image

(data for pie chart: https://sciencing.com/elements-makeup-e ... 51571.html )

(the thin red line is the CO2... can you see it?)

Very little CO2 in the atmosphere.

To say a ridiculously slight rise in that minuscule amount would significantly affect the global climate is patently absurd.

Per, your "Scientific consensus" is politics, not Science...
Yeahno, that’s not how it works.

”To say the ridiculously miniscule amount of plutonium I laced your beer with would significantly affect your health is patently absurd...” :drink:
What's ridiculous is... that analogy.

CO2 is not poisonous, lol...
No, but the idea that a small amount of something won't make any difference is even more ridiculous.

Here's an idea, fill your bath tub with water. Then let loose a handful of water skeeters in it. Watch them run across the surface of the water.
Then add one drop of detergent and see what happens to the poor bugs.
Lol, another ridiculous analogy, this isn't about chemistry, it's about proportionate concentrations...

Per wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm
Oxygen and nitrogen let the sunshine through. Carbon dioxide locks it in, like the windows of a greenhouse.
You keep forgetting that it is NOT a scientific fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ei=j ... CAs&uact=5

Google is your friend...

Per wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm
Mind you, the greenhouse effect is not bad per se. If it weren't for the green house gasses (of which CO2 is the most important) the earth would be a giant snow ball. Thanks to the greenhouse effect it is hospitable for us.
Look, even if CO2 were a greenhouse gas, it's a teensy weensy factor, truth is it's water vapour that is the most important.

Image

Humans are not responsible for climate change, lol you've been hornswoggled...

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:04 pm
by mr perfect
Micky wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:38 am
Or a fart from Etna.
I was on Mt Etna only 2 months ago.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:14 pm
by The Brown Wizard
mr perfect wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:04 pm
Micky wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:38 am
Or a fart from Etna.
I was on Mt Etna only 2 months ago.
you didnt fart apparently

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:41 pm
by Per
Strangelove wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:43 am
Per wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm
Oxygen and nitrogen let the sunshine through. Carbon dioxide locks it in, like the windows of a greenhouse.
You keep forgetting that it is NOT a scientific fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ei=j ... CAs&uact=5

Google is your friend...
It is. It most definitely is. Heck, if you follow that link you posted you can perhaps finally learn the truth:
The theory behind climate change is also grounded in observation and reason. It all started with a puzzle: By the early 1800s, physicists realized that an earth-sized rock orbiting the sun at a distance of 93 million miles should be frozen according to the known laws of physics. French physicist Joseph Fourier proposed that the atmosphere keeps the planet warm. Others tested this theory in laboratory experiments, sending a simulated version of sunlight through various gases. They found that oxygen and nitrogen had no effect on the light, but carbon dioxide did. In repeated experiments, carbon dioxide absorbed and re-radiated infrared waves, which on a planetary scale would prevent some of the sun’s energy from escaping to space.

But now climate science has something even stronger on its side, said atmospheric physicist Lee Harrison of the State University of New York, Albany. The premise is all predicted by a powerful theory in physics known as quantum mechanics, which describes in detail the behavior of light and matter on the scale of molecules, atoms and subatomic particles. Like Einstein’s theory, quantum mechanics is bolstered by hundreds of experiments. Quantum mechanics predicts how infrared radiation coming up from the earth will be affected by carbon dioxide and other gases.

“What the public doesn’t understand is the extreme interconnectedness of physical reality,” Harrison said. “If someone proposes that carbon dioxide is not a greenhouse gas, this requires ripping up essentially all of modern physics … Now you aren’t just arguing with those measurements of carbon dioxide; you are arguing with the whole body of molecular quantum mechanics and all confirming measurements.
History has shown again and again that authority which refuses belief in sound science and substitutes for it non-science in its programs can have vast costs in lives and treasures; think of the mass starvation when the Soviet party adopted Lysenko’s ideas for harvests ... or what might be coming now for the lives of coastal peoples if no action is taken in accord with sound climate science.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... fic-theory
Look, even if CO2 were a greenhouse gas, it's a teensy weensy factor, truth is it's water vapour that is the most important.

Image
You keep confusing ”largest amount” with ”most important”. :|

They are not the same thing.
Humans are not responsible for climate change, lol you've been hornswoggled...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Says the guy believing in alternative facts rather than evidence based scientific theories! :D

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... ative-fact

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:34 pm
by Strangelove
Per wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:41 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:41 pm
Look, even if CO2 were a greenhouse gas, it's a teensy weensy factor, truth is it's water vapour that is the most important.

Image
You keep confusing ”largest amount” with ”most important”. :|

They are not the same thing.
Whatever Per, my statement is irrefutable... try a little research. :eh:

All those scientists of yours who say anthropogenic climate change is a big deal agree with my statement above.

Water vapour is BY FAR (many, many times over) the most important greenhouse gas.

(and there is... also... far more of it than CO2 in the atmosphere)

Per wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:41 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:41 pm
Humans are not responsible for climate change, lol you've been hornswoggled...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Says the guy believing in alternative facts rather than evidence based scientific theories! :D
I agree with the scientific theory that says humans have an insignificant effect on the global climate at best.

Why are you so sure the scientific theory you ascribe to is the correct one, hell you obviously don't do any research on the matter! 8-)