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Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:09 pm
by Per
SKYO wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:21 pm
A lot of those Navajo's work in those mines/power plants.

https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/navajo-coal

But it seems coal is dying a slow but steady death as cheaper natural gas takes over.
Even with Trump helping by cutting govt red tape/regulations & rolling back on the clean power plan on coal mining.
Yeah, coal is doomed. Both natural gas and solar is cheaper, so no one will be building new coal powered plants and the ones still up and running will gradually be phased out. And in the case of solar, the technology is still improving, so over time it will continue to get cheaper and more efficient. But that's good news. Coal mining is dirty and dangerous work, and burning coal destroys both the environment and the climate. Good riddance!

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:21 pm
by UWSaint
Per wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:09 pm
SKYO wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:21 pm
A lot of those Navajo's work in those mines/power plants.

https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/navajo-coal

But it seems coal is dying a slow but steady death as cheaper natural gas takes over.
Even with Trump helping by cutting govt red tape/regulations & rolling back on the clean power plan on coal mining.
Yeah, coal is doomed. Both natural gas and solar is cheaper, so no one will be building new coal powered plants and the ones still up and running will gradually be phased out. And in the case of solar, the technology is still improving, so over time it will continue to get cheaper and more efficient. But that's good news. Coal mining is dirty and dangerous work, and burning coal destroys both the environment and the climate. Good riddance!
Low US cost of natural gas is because of fracking. Increased supply, reasonable costs to recover. Go Battlestar Galactica.

Coal's expense is due to regulations. Mostly environmental (some labor). That it is phasing out is a success story if the regulations are still inadequate to capture the external costs. I'm no expert on whether they are.

It is palatable to the US consumer because energy costs are not increasing (see fracking; also see wind, which is increasingly efficient).

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:44 pm
by Reefer2
UWSaint wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:21 pm


Low US cost of natural gas is because of fracking. Increased supply, reasonable costs to recover. Go Battlestar Galactica.
I got it!

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:34 am
by Topper
looking at my latest gas utility bill for our furnace, hotwater tank and stove.

Cost of the gas consumed $14.24
Various storage and delivery charges $64.49

Carbon tax $15.99

Carbon tax is 112% of the cost of the actual gas we burned.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:48 am
by micky107
Topper wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:34 am
looking at my latest gas utility bill for our furnace, hotwater tank and stove.

Cost of the gas consumed $14.24
Various storage and delivery charges $64.49

Carbon tax $15.99

Carbon tax is 112% of the cost of the actual gas we burned.
Ya, um, mine looks like that too. Should carbon tax be in Green ? No, this is better.
Who the f**k gets away with the term various on a bill ?

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:52 pm
by 5thhorseman
micky107 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:48 am
Topper wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:34 am
looking at my latest gas utility bill for our furnace, hotwater tank and stove.

Cost of the gas consumed $14.24
Various storage and delivery charges $64.49

Carbon tax $15.99

Carbon tax is 112% of the cost of the actual gas we burned.
Ya, um, mine looks like that too. Should carbon tax be in Green ? No, this is better.
Who the f**k gets away with the term various on a bill ?
Such a bogus calculation. Since when are distribution costs not part of the overall cost of a product?

Buy a pair of Levi 501s for $50. GST and PST is $6, which is probably more than the cost of producing these jeans in Bangladesh.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:46 pm
by Topper
5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:52 pm
micky107 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:48 am
Topper wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:34 am
looking at my latest gas utility bill for our furnace, hotwater tank and stove.

Cost of the gas consumed $14.24
Various storage and delivery charges $64.49

Carbon tax $15.99

Carbon tax is 112% of the cost of the actual gas we burned.
Ya, um, mine looks like that too. Should carbon tax be in Green ? No, this is better.
Who the f**k gets away with the term various on a bill ?
Such a bogus calculation. Since when are distribution costs not part of the overall cost of a product?

Buy a pair of Levi 501s for $50. GST and PST is $6, which is probably more than the cost of producing these jeans in Bangladesh.
Back of the bill says the cost of the gas is actual cost they paid for it to the producer and they pass that onto the consumer with no markup. They separate out distribution and storage in vender pipelines and their own. I combined them for simplicity. I would imagine carbon tax is paid on the energy for pumping and infrastructure by those doing those tasks. GST and PST are calculated on the total bill, then Carbon tax is calculated on the total amount including GST and PST.

Should the carbon (carbon dioxide) tax be related to the carbon dioxide produced?

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:12 pm
by The Brown Wizard
Burn wood....its tax free! Fuck the carbon bullshit tax.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:21 pm
by Topper
Uncle dans leg wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:12 pm
Burn wood....its tax free! Fuck the carbon bullshit tax.
Fuck no, even if I had a wood burner. Grew up splitting firewood and packing firewood. Fuck no!

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:22 pm
by The Brown Wizard
Topper wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:21 pm
Uncle dans leg wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:12 pm
Burn wood....its tax free! Fuck the carbon bullshit tax.
Fuck no, even if I had a wood burner. Grew up splitting firewood and packing firewood. Fuck no!
You have a son dont you? Pass down the knowledge

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:24 pm
by 5thhorseman
I thought BC carbon tax is levied at the retail level only. So pumping an infrastructure are not affected by the carbon tax, though they do pay other, similar, taxes.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:43 pm
by Topper
5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:24 pm
I thought BC carbon tax is levied at the retail level only. So pumping an infrastructure are not affected by the carbon tax, though they do pay other, similar, taxes.
why would they not pay carbon tax on their energy costs?

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:41 pm
by 5thhorseman
Topper wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:43 pm
5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:24 pm
I thought BC carbon tax is levied at the retail level only. So pumping an infrastructure are not affected by the carbon tax, though they do pay other, similar, taxes.
why would they not pay carbon tax on their energy costs?
Double taxation

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:19 pm
by Topper
5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:41 pm
Topper wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:43 pm
5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:24 pm
I thought BC carbon tax is levied at the retail level only. So pumping an infrastructure are not affected by the carbon tax, though they do pay other, similar, taxes.
why would they not pay carbon tax on their energy costs?
Double taxation
now you're getting it

like companies with of $500K payroll are already paying the new MSP premium but the "free" for all doesn't kick in until next year.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:00 pm
by The Brown Wizard
Bring Cash