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Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:45 pm
by micky107
Reefer2 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:20 pm
Good response Top,

As an average Joe, I am more concerned about the pollution from cars and industry, not on the impact on the earth but just the air we breath. I think we can all agree that breathing in this type of pollution is not the best thing for us.
I don't feel guilty that my 69 Camaro has no pollution control. Should I ?



Nope, I think not...... :rockin:

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:49 pm
by 5thhorseman
Reefer2 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:20 pm
Good response Top,

As an average Joe, I am more concerned about the pollution from cars and industry, not on the impact on the earth but just the air we breath. I think we can all agree that breathing in this type of pollution is not the best thing for us.
Are you posting from China, Reef?

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:29 pm
by The Brown Wizard
:lol:

Only when he rolls over

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:47 pm
by Reefer2
Uncle dans leg wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:29 pm
:lol:

Only when he rolls over
Sigh, if you cannot tell the difference then I’m not sure what to say?

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:38 pm
by The Brown Wizard
Why is it really sideways?

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:58 pm
by Per
Great news:

https://www.iflscience.com/technology/r ... into-coal/

Brilliant, and it reconfirms my belief that humankind usually can find solutions to the troubles that confront us. When I was a kid it was the destruction of the ozon layer that threatened our survival. That is fixed, even if skin cancer rates krept up a bit before we could get the ozon holes to start healing. Acid rain is also mostly a thing of the past.

Now it's the climate change that needs fixing, and this could be an important key to addressing that problem!

Also, possibly another nail in the coffin of the outdated coal industry, if we can start extracting coal large scale out of thin air!

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:15 pm
by Strangelove
Per wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:58 pm
Great news:

https://www.iflscience.com/technology/r ... into-coal/

Brilliant, and it reconfirms my belief that humankind usually can find solutions to the troubles that confront us. When I was a kid it was the destruction of the ozon layer that threatened our survival. That is fixed, even if skin cancer rates krept up a bit before we could get the ozon holes to start healing. Acid rain is also mostly a thing of the past.

Now it's the climate change that needs fixing, and this could be an important key to addressing that problem!

Also, possibly another nail in the coffin of the outdated coal industry, if we can start extracting coal large scale out of thin air!
Or we could just plant more trees.

(trees take CO2 out of the air, yup trees looooves them some CO2)

(in fact the trees would appreciate it if we DIDN’T remove CO2 from the atmosphere)

(they’d rather not die)

(plankton neither)

(well everything green would die without CO2)

(and if everything green dies, well EVERYTHING dies)

(including Reef and his cat)

(are you some kind of bloodthirsty ghoul Per?) :evil:



Butt seriously, data has shown that over the eons, when CO2 levels have increased

… it has led to a greener Earth.

A greener Earth causes a reduction in carbon levels and

… a reduction in carbon levels leads to a cooling of the Earth.

(at least according to Al 'Greenie' Gore et al)

So if CO2 is in fact warming the planet, shouldn’t we trust the planet to sort things out?

Shouldn't Al 'Greenie' Gore et al chill the fuck out?

A thought experiment…

Picture us burning the carbon from this electrolysis machine of yours to create electricity.

Then we use all of that electricity to run this electrolysis machine of yours.

We continually throw all the solid carbon chunks produced by your machine back into the fire.

Theoretically this could go on forever

… as long as we kept adding something like ACTUAL COAL cuz 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

Do you see where I’m going with this?

I could've just re-stated that rising CO2 levels doesn't necessarily lead to global warming but where's the fun in that amirite? :mrgreen:

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:12 pm
by Topper
Strangelove wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:15 pm
Per wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:58 pm
Great news:

https://www.iflscience.com/technology/r ... into-coal/

Brilliant, and it reconfirms my belief that humankind usually can find solutions to the troubles that confront us. When I was a kid it was the destruction of the ozon layer that threatened our survival. That is fixed, even if skin cancer rates krept up a bit before we could get the ozon holes to start healing. Acid rain is also mostly a thing of the past.

Now it's the climate change that needs fixing, and this could be an important key to addressing that problem!

Also, possibly another nail in the coffin of the outdated coal industry, if we can start extracting coal large scale out of thin air!
Or we could just plant more trees.

(trees take CO2 out of the air, yup trees looooves them some CO2)

(in fact the trees would appreciate it if we DIDN’T remove CO2 from the atmosphere)

(they’d rather not die)

(plankton neither)

(well everything green would die without CO2)

(and if everything green dies, well EVERYTHING dies)

(including Reef and his cat)

(are you some kind of bloodthirsty ghoul Per?) :evil:



Butt seriously, data has shown that over the eons, when CO2 levels have increased

… it has led to a greener Earth.

A greener Earth causes a reduction in carbon levels and

… a reduction in carbon levels leads to a cooling of the Earth.

(at least according to Al 'Greenie' Gore et al)

So if CO2 is in fact warming the planet, shouldn’t we trust the planet to sort things out?

Shouldn't Al 'Greenie' Gore et al chill the fuck out?

A thought experiment…

Picture us burning the carbon from this electrolysis machine of yours to create electricity.

Then we use all of that electricity to run this electrolysis machine of yours.

We continually throw all the solid carbon chunks produced by your machine back into the fire.

Theoretically this could go on forever

… as long as we kept adding something like ACTUAL COAL cuz 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

Do you see where I’m going with this?

I could've just re-stated that rising CO2 levels doesn't necessarily lead to global warming but where's the fun in that amirite? :mrgreen:
meet the monkey wrench

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.5011490

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:33 pm
by Strangelove
Topper wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:12 pm
meet the monkey wrench

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.5011490
Yes well Canada manages her forests (drop in the bucket) very poorly eh?

I'd be more interested in your thoughts about the part following "Butt seriously"...

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:45 am
by Per
Strangelove wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:15 pm
Or we could just plant more trees.
Absolutely!

The problem is that in most places they are cutting down trees instead. In both Brazil and Indonesia they are clearing rain forest at an alarming rate and replacing it with palm oil or soy bean plantations, or turning it into grazing land for beef cattle.

And the new Trump^2 Brazilian president, Bolsanero, even wants to increase the speed of deforestation.
Meanwhile there is an increase in desertification in eg Australia, Spain and North Africa.

But yes, planting more trees would be a great way to reduce CO2 levels.
Butt seriously, data has shown that over the eons, when CO2 levels have increased
… it has led to a greener Earth.
A greener Earth causes a reduction in carbon levels and
… a reduction in carbon levels leads to a cooling of the Earth.
(at least according to Al 'Greenie' Gore et al)
So if CO2 is in fact warming the planet, shouldn’t we trust the planet to sort things out?
It would lead to a greener world, if we weren't clear cutting so much of it.

And I'm not worried about the planet.
The planet will find a new equilibrium and go on.
It's just that the new equilibrium might not be suitable for humans.
A thought experiment…

Picture us burning the carbon from this electrolysis machine of yours to create electricity.
Then we use all of that electricity to run this electrolysis machine of yours.
We continually throw all the solid carbon chunks produced by your machine back into the fire.
Theoretically this could go on forever
… as long as we kept adding something like ACTUAL COAL cuz 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
Only a troglodyte would burn coal to create electricity. :scowl:

Better use solar energy to extract the carbon, and then use the perfectly pure carbon to make graphene for superconductors and stuff. You know, 21st century technology instead of 19th century ditto.

And of course the plan would not be to rid the atmosphere of CO2, only to keep the levels from rising beyond control.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:00 pm
by micky107
The Bastards !!
.
Image
*
*
at least the dude on the right used protection 8-)

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:20 pm
by Topper
Much of California's electricity comes from coal burning plants as does much of the power BC imports from Alberta.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:51 am
by Per
Topper wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:20 pm
Much of California's electricity comes from coal burning plants as does much of the power BC imports from Alberta.
You need to move away from that.

Sweden gets roughly 41% each from hydropower and nuclear, 10% from wind, 5% from bio mass and 3% from fossil fuels (oil, coal and gas combined). Wind and bio are gradually increasing, fossil is on its way out.

We haven't invested much in solar, but it's mostly dark here in the winter, so solar works better closer to the equator. That being said, it's great for a summer house. Hell, we might even get solar panels for our house, but at present payback on investment is close to ten years. May be smarter to wait a year or two to see if price goes down and efficiency up. With recent summers having been so hot, we're thinking of getting AC for the house, and then getting solar to run it may not be a bad idea.

It's harder to get rid of fossil fuels in transports, but both Volvo and Scania produce trucks that drive on biogas, and Volvo now also has released two different electric trucks. The local buses here run on biogas.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:41 am
by Topper
BC exports hydro generated electricity, imports coal generated electricity for it's own use. Our Provincial government has recently announced incentives to move from fossil fuel energy sources to electrical energy sources. Oddly, in the 70's there were similar incentives to move from oil based sources for home heating to abundant LNG sources for home heating. The same level government has been desperately trying to develop an LNG export market over the past 10 years, however permitting delays have driven most investors from the market. Much of their budget forecasting and book balancing is based upon optimistic down the road returns of LNG exports. I believe LNG is still the lowest cost per joule fuel for us. My home has LNG furnace, water heater and stove.

There are several large coal mines with adjacent power generating plants in the 4 corners area of the US that provide electricity to California. One offshoot is that the mines are on Navajo lands and the aboriginals receive payouts from the mines. They have been able to put in massive irrigation systems and have become some of the largest bean and potato suppliers in the US.

Re: It's getting warm

Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:21 pm
by SKYO
A lot of those Navajo's work in those mines/power plants.

https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/navajo-coal

But it seems coal is dying a slow but steady death as cheaper natural gas takes over.
Even with Trump helping by cutting govt red tape/regulations & rolling back on the clean power plan on coal mining.