Old World Politics

The primary goal of this site is to provide mature, meaningful discussion about the Vancouver Canucks. However, we all need a break some time so this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest! This forum is named after poster Creeper, who passed away in July of 2011 and was a long time member of the Canucks message board community.

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Per
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Old World Politics

Post by Per »

I don’t know if there is any interest in this, but I sometimes feel like posting about stuff happening on this side the Atlantic, and not everything fits into the Brexit or Putin threads.

So, bye bye Boris, hello Liz!

Not sure if Truss is to be trusted, she keeps,switching positions; used to be a LibDem, now is a Tory. Was anti-Brexit and now endorses it.
We’ll just have to wait and see. Apparently she wants to channel Thatcher, who,was a market liberal leading a conservative party. :|

So, our friend Jonathan Pie has compiled a final tribute to BoJo:



:cheers:
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Strangelove »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6574305

It seems Liz Truss attended school in Burnaby (Parkcrest).

I wonder if Topper ever dipped her pigtails in the inkwells.
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Per »

Strangelove wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:48 pm I wonder if Topper ever dipped her pigtails in the inkwells.
Wouldn't that be HIS pigtail in HER inkwell, and... she was only twelve at the time... :crazy:
... or, right you meant actual pigtails and inkwells?
Never mind. :oops:


Pie has a few things to say about Liz as well, and the state of the nation. :lol:

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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Topper »

Late 1980's? Are you trying to get me arrested?
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Strangelove wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:48 pm https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6574305

It seems Liz Truss attended school in Burnaby (Parkcrest).

I wonder if Topper ever dipped her pigtails in the inkwells.
Some of the kids in that pic are younger brothers to some friends of mine. I bet they boinked her behind the bleachers
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Strangelove »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:32 am
Strangelove wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:48 pm https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6574305

It seems Liz Truss attended school in Burnaby (Parkcrest).

I wonder if Topper ever dipped her pigtails in the inkwells.
Some of the kids in that pic are younger brothers to some friends of mine. I bet they boinked her behind the bleachers
Serial-shaggers were they?
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Strangelove »

Image

Just look at what Truss did to the Queen's hand today! :shock:
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

The queen will have to harvest more orphan babies stat
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Per »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:32 am
Strangelove wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:48 pm https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6574305

It seems Liz Truss attended school in Burnaby (Parkcrest).

I wonder if Topper ever dipped her pigtails in the inkwells.
Some of the kids in that pic are younger brothers to some friends of mine. I bet they boinked her behind the bleachers
Right. :roll:

She spent one year in that school. She was twelve at the time.
But then again, I have no idea how common pedophilia is in BC.
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

You didn't run trains on your classmates behind the bleachers at age 12?
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Per »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:54 pm You didn't run trains on your classmates behind the bleachers at age 12?
Nope. At age 12 girls still seemed a bit icky. And my school didn’t even have bleachers.
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Per wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:23 pm
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:54 pm You didn't run trains on your classmates behind the bleachers at age 12?
Nope. At age 12 girls still seemed a bit icky. And my school didn’t even have bleachers.
:wow:

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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Per »

Sweden had an election last Sunday. It was very close, so it couldn’t really be called until the absentee votes had been accounted for on Wednesday, but it seems that afyer after years of a Social Democrat led coalition the Conservatives will be forming the next government. It is controversial though as this is the first time a Swedish government is built on the support of the Sweden Democrats, a right wing populist party with roots in the neonazi movement.

https://www.dw.com/en/swedish-election- ... a-63100694

The government coalition of Social Democrats, Leftists, the Green Party and the Centre Party got 48.9% of the vote and 173 seats.
The right wing opposition of Conservatives, Sweden Democrats, Christian Democrats and Liberals got 49.5% of the vote and 176 seats.
Other parties totalled 1.6% of the vote and get no seats as there is a 4% threshold for that in Swedish parliamentary elections.

PM Magdalena Andersson has conceded (as one does in civilised countries) and Ulf Kristersson of the Conservative Party will try to form a government. His problem is that he needs both the Liberals and the Sweden Democrats to support his bid, and they hate eachother and have diametrically opposed views on many issues regarding civil liberties and such. Albeit all four parties support market economy and are pro-capitalism so to say, it will take a pretty good balancing act by Kristersson to be able to keep both the Liberals and the Sweden Democrats happy. To complicate matters, the Sweden Democrats received the most votes of these four parties, trailing only the Social Democrats. They got 20.5% of the vote, the Conservatives 19.1, the Christian Democrats 5.3 and the Liberals just 4.6. This gives them some swagger going into the negotiations. None of the other three would support a bid by Jimmie Åkesson to become PM though. In fact, both the Christian Democrats and the Liberals have stated that they will not even accept that SD would be part of the government and hold cabinet posts. Meanwhile Jimmie has stated that even though he thinks they should form part of the government he is willing to discuss that but then they will need major policy concessions in return. And this is where it gets tricky. The SD started out as neonazis, and even when they first entered parliament they were quite xenophobic. They have since toned it down and try to present a more polished image, but their party programme in the mid nineties still called for the repatriation of all non-European immigrants that have arrived to Sweden after 1975. They don’t say things like this in public any more, but it is safe to say that restrictions on immigration will be high on their list. They have eg suggested that Sweden should no longer accept UN quota refugees, a stance that most others find extreme and would go against Sweden’s long tradition of supporting the UN. Anyway, any major concessions to the SD increase the risk of the Liberals backing away from this bid. Kristersson may try to offer cabinet posts to the Liberals to woo them, but this could enrage the SD who got four times as many votes as the Liberals.

The one thing Kristersson has got going for him is that both the Liberal and the SD voters prefer him as PM rather than Magdalena Andersson of the Social Democrats. This means there is some pressure on them to try to make this work.

I personally think they will be able to form a government within the next few weeks, most likely consisting only of Conservatives and Christian Democrats, but with the support of Liberals and Sweden Democrats as well. But I seriously doubt they can survive the full four years till our next elections.

In 2018 the Liberals hesitantly decided to back a Social Democratic government rather than let the Sweden Democrats gain any influence. They then abandoned that stance, but the government still had 175 MPs backing them vs 174 of the opposition, but it left them really vulnerable as they could never afford to lose even one single mp on any issue. And two out of the four years they ended up having to rule with a budget decided by the opposition.

It’s pretty much the same thing now. The Liberals hold 16 seats in parliament. If just two of them decide to go back to supporting the Social Democrats, Kristersson will have to resign. This is why he must really woo the Liberals and give them whatever they ask for, but then he risks upsetting the Sweden Democrats, and if they vote against both him and Magdalena Andersson as PM, they could force a new election.

So, in conclusion, it looks as if we have elected a conservative government, but they are in for a bumpy ride.


Oh, and if things get too messy, the Conservatives and Social Democrats could cite the war in Ukraine and the energy crisis as reasons to form a national unity government, leaving all other parties aside. This kind of unholy union is actually quite common in both Germany and Finland, so it shouldn’t really be considered unthinkable here either. But I think this will not be what they opt for to begin with.
Last edited by Per on Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old World Politics

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

el rey del mambo
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Re: Old World Politics

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Per wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:06 pm Sweden had an election last Sunday. It was very close, so it couldn’t really be called until the absentee votes had been accounted for on Wednesday, but it seems that afyer after years of a Social Democrat led coalition the Conservatives will be forming the next government. It is controversial though as this is the first time a Swedish government is built on the support of the Sweden Democrats, a right wing populist party with roots in the neonazi movement.

https://www.dw.com/en/swedish-election- ... a-63100694

The government coalition of Social Democrats, Leftists, the Green Party and the Centre Party got 48.9% of the vote and 173 seats.
The right wing opposition of Conservatives, Sweden Democrats, Christian Democrats and Liberals got 49.5% of the vote and 176 seats.
Other parties totalled 1.6% of the vote and get no seats as there is a 4% threshold for that in Swedish parliamentary elections.

PM Magdalena Andersson has conceded (as one does in civilised countries) and Ulf Kristersson of the Conservative Party will try to form a government. His problem is that he needs both the Liberals and the Sweden Democrats to support his bid, and they hate eachother and have diametrically opposed views on many issues regarding civil liberties and such. Albeit all four parties support market economy and are pro-capitalism so to say, it will take a pretty good balancing act by Kristersson to be able to keep both the Liberals and the Sweden Democrats happy. To complicate matters, the Sweden Democrats received the most votes of these four parties, trailing only the Social Democrats. They got 20.5% of the vote, the Conservatives 19.1, the Christian Democrats 5.3 and the Liberals just 4.6. This gives them some swagger going into the negotiations. None of the other three would support a bid by Jimmie Åkesson to become PM though. In fact, both the Christian Democrats and the Liberals have stated that they will not even accept that SD would be part of the government and hold cabinet posts. Meanwhile Jimmie has stated that even though he thinks they should form part of the government he is willing to discuss that but then they will need major policy concessions in return. And this is where it gets tricky. The SD started out as neonazis, and even when they first entered parliament they were quite xenophobic. They have since toned it down and try to present a more polished image, but their party programme in the mid nineties still called for the repatriation of all non-European immigrants that have arrived to Sweden after 1975. They don’t say things like this in public any more, but it is safe to say that restrictions on immigration will be high on their list. They have eg suggested that Sweden should no longer accept UN quota refugees, a stance that most others find extreme and would go against Sweden’s long tradition of supporting the UN. Anyway, any major concessions to the SD increase the risk of the Liberals backing away from this bid. Kristersson may try to offer cabinet posts to the Liberals to woo them, but this could enrage the SD who got four times as many votes as the Liberals.

The one thing Kristersson has got going for him is that both the Liberal and the SD voters prefer him as PM rather than Magdalena Andersson of the Social Democrats. This means there is some pressure on them to try to make this work.

I personally think they will be able to form a government within the next few weeks, most likely consisting only of Conservatives and Christian Democrats, but with the support of Liberals and Sweden Democrats as well. But I seriously doubt they can survive the full four years till our next elections.

In 2018 the Liberals hesitantly decided to back a Social Democratic government rather than let the Sweden Democrats gain any influence. They then abandoned that stance, but the government still had 175 MPs backing them vs 174 of the opposition, but it left them really vulnerable as they could never afford to lose even one single mp on any issue. And two out of the four years they ended up having to rule with a budget decided by the opposition.

It’s pretty much the same thing now. The Liberals hold 16 seats in parliament. If just two of them decide to go back to supporting the Social Democrats, Kristersson will have to resign. This is why he must really woo the Liberals and give them whatever they ask for, but then he risks upsetting the Sweden Democrats, and if they vote against both him and Magdalena Andersson as PM, they could force a new election.

So, in conclusion, it looks as if we have elected a conservative government, but they are in for a bumpy ride.


Oh, and if things get too messy, the Conservatives and Social Democrats could cite the war in Ukraine and the energy crisis as reasons to form a national unity government, leaving all other parties aside. This kind of unholy union is actually quite common in both Germany and Finland, so it shouldn’t really be considered unthinkable here either. But I think this will not be what they opt for to begin with.
File this under things to consider before abandoning first past the post elections and/or adopting proportional representation.

I don't know what to make of European "right wing" parties or "neo-nazi" parties. Its just so foreign to me. Historically, the right wing in the United States oscillates between conservatives and free market types; both of these types are devoid of national (or supernational) collectivist impulses (which marks the 20th centuries alternatives to liberalism -- fascism and communism or true socialism (state-ownership of significant industry)). Collectivist right wingers are fringe fringe fringe in America, and the corporatism strains of American politics have always been more a part of the progressive left than the right (though both parties mistake "public-private partnerships" as something to be fostered rather than viewed skeptically as potentially dangerous conglomerations of power).

Its quite difficult for me to accept the idea that people who are for increased immigration control or are skeptical of the UN or the growing power of the EU are necessarily fringe; in fact, I can see left wing and right wing arguments for increasing controls on immigration or for less deference to international organizations. (And I can see extremists also wanting these things). I think the liberal/globalist/media/financial classes make a big mistake when they presume that the sentiments motivating immigration control or thinking there can be a negative from international "cooperation" are the ideas of extremists and can be dismissed or demonized accordingly. Fact is, so long as there are borders and people see a value to them, the question of immigration and international cooperation are always practical questions of balance and degree that can't be dismissed by assigning extreme ideology to people that weigh the balance differently.
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