We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

At that rate Canada would be on pace for 80,000 deaths if they had the population of the US. Pig in a Wig has the US bumping at almost 200,000. Not even close really.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by rats19 »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:39 am
Strangelove wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:55 pm ^ From what I understand, most Americans think the USA, unlike other countries, is attributing deaths to Covid that shouldn't be.

And of course you know America has ten times the population of Canada...
Actually the US (328 million) has 8.72 x the population of Canada (37.6 million).

The current population of the United States of America is 331,309,290 as of Friday, August 28, 2020,
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

I’d imagine Canada’s population has increased at the same pace. Either way the US has done a terrible job of handling the pandemic.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by rats19 »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:55 am I’d imagine Canada’s population has increased at the same pace. Either way the US has done a terrible job of handling the pandemic.
I’ll make note of your opinion
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by The Brown Wizard »

rats19 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:43 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:55 am I’d imagine Canada’s population has increased at the same pace. Either way the US has done a terrible job of handling the pandemic.
I’ll make note of your opinion
Rumour has it Doyle is huge Justin Trudeau fan as well
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by UWSaint »

Per wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:38 am Image

:shock:

Now that’s fucked up.... :crazy:

And as that was posted a week ago, it’s now already 196k dead in the USA.
The numbers are rising rapidly.
It’s a dumb poll question. One might say yes because they prefer a higher quality of life and a higher risk and live in a state with little or no response. Or they might say yes because they live in a state with low numbers. When you ask a question presuming an underlying value measurement that you haven’t isolated, the response is meaningless. And it’s a dumb question because it’s assuming a counterfactual—that there is a US response or a Canadian response where so much of the public policy response is state/provincial or even more local. As it should be, since while this is a worldwide pandemic, it’s effects on a given area change over time (and so too should the response).

I live in a state where our death from covid rate is less than quebec and less than Ontario. I live in a county where our stats on that score and others are better than the state as a whole. And it’s a populated county, second largest in the state with the second biggest city in the state. I don’t have an answer to the dumb poll question, but I think it would be totally reasonable for people here that value disease control as a top value to say, yes, it’s better for me than Canada.

I also think if I were asked the question “is the US response to covid better than the state of Victoria, Australia” I’d say yes no matter the comparative death toll. Because the restrictions there are unacceptable for the risks presented by the disease to the general population.

Covid and the public policy response are complicated and dynamic things. Good short term responses are not necessarily good long term responses; what was initially presented as a sprint is turning out to be a marathon (though this is what I thought was inevitably the case in March). All risk mitigation has a price (you don’t buy insurance for *any* price) and the price point changes as risks are better understood and as the ability to pay changes (the floating of govt cash mitigated individual hardship but isn’t sustainable if gdp stays down).

Finally, I am an ‘Mercian who is skeptical of the stats. Not in any black helicopter fashion, but insofar as there are not universal standard for assessing when a death is caused by covid. Nor is there a universal standard being applied for case positives. There are many stories that many reporters are reporting each positive test as a new case, when the same person may be getting multiple positive tests. And I am skeptical of the case count because it is hyper dependent on not only on the # of tests run, but also a false positive rate associated with the PCR test (especially when improperly performed (too many rotations in the centrefuge).

Because of this, we are never comparing apples to apples when looking at stats. Now I don’t assume the US is doing better than other countries with robust testing because of this skepticism. Could be better, could be worse. But I do think that the stats—particularly case count stats—are of limited value.
Last edited by UWSaint on Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Cookie La Rue »

Shut up,, it's just a cold.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

The Brown Wizard wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:45 am
rats19 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:43 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:55 am I’d imagine Canada’s population has increased at the same pace. Either way the US has done a terrible job of handling the pandemic.
I’ll make note of your opinion
Rumour has it Doyle is huge Justin Trudeau fan as well
I don’t like JT. But he’s slightly better than Pig with a Wig.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by The Brown Wizard »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:49 pm
The Brown Wizard wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:45 am
rats19 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:43 am
Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:55 am I’d imagine Canada’s population has increased at the same pace. Either way the US has done a terrible job of handling the pandemic.
I’ll make note of your opinion
Rumour has it Doyle is huge Justin Trudeau fan as well
I don’t like JT. But he’s slightly better than Pig with a Wig.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Meds »

Doyle Hargraves wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:42 am At that rate Canada would be on pace for 80,000 deaths if they had the population of the US. Pig in a Wig has the US bumping at almost 200,000. Not even close really.
I think you also have to factor in the population density of their hardest hit areas.

Our highest number of cases are Toronto and Montreal at 16,477 cases and 30,680 cases, respectively.

The population of Toronto is 2.93 million, and Montreal tips the scales at 1.78 million.

Los Angeles alone has 12.4 million people, and New York has 20 million.

The way this thing spreads it's going to grow exponentially based upon total population.

I'm not saying the US has handled this amazingly, however, Canada had the WORST economy in the world for two quarters of this year, also consider that multiple studies have been published over the last 20 years (BC published its own in 2011) stating that lock-downs don't work, and are actually detrimental over the long term, and you have to think that maybe, just maybe, we cut our nose off to spite our face.

I mean, Europe is seeing the dreaded second wave.....but this time they are saying hell no to locking down and are letting it run its course.

Pointing to previous pandemics, and the severity of them, shows that this one is actually rather mild in terms of mortality. If this had the same mortality rate as the Spanish Flu we would have 200 million deaths worldwide. Currently we have what, 940,000?

Sweden let 'er buck. Ironically their stats have tracked very similarly to Germany's, who took some pretty stringent measures.

More numbers are starting to surface showing that the majority of reported Covid deaths were not actually Covid deaths, they just happened to have Covid, and in many cases it was found posthumously.

Or how about the labs that were reporting a 100% positive rate on their tests? Ummmm.....that's pretty much impossible.

Should we talk about the number of new positive cases that are actually the same person being counted multiple times because they got more than one test?

I mean, people are shitting their pants over numbers that have admittedly inflated their totals by including physically traumatic deaths when Covid has been found during autopsy.

They should have tested George Floyd for Covid.....could you imagine the irony during trial? Cops being investigated and charged for a Covid death. Oh the precedence!!!!

The only thing the US of A has done badly here is the way they have politicized this thing. It's embarrassing.....
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Per »

Meds wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:32 am
They should have tested George Floyd for Covid.....could you imagine the irony during trial? Cops being investigated and charged for a Covid death. Oh the precedence!!!!
They have, and he tested positive. He had taken meth and he had covid-19, but the cause of death was asphyxia, caused by someone kneeling on his neck.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Meds »

Per wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:58 am
Meds wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:32 am
They should have tested George Floyd for Covid.....could you imagine the irony during trial? Cops being investigated and charged for a Covid death. Oh the precedence!!!!
They have, and he tested positive. He had taken meth and he had covid-19, but the cause of death was asphyxia, caused by someone kneeling on his neck.
Well that's just not right. How can one traumatic death be considered Covid and another not? :roll:
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Per »

Meds wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:05 pm
Per wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:58 am
Meds wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:32 am
They should have tested George Floyd for Covid.....could you imagine the irony during trial? Cops being investigated and charged for a Covid death. Oh the precedence!!!!
They have, and he tested positive. He had taken meth and he had covid-19, but the cause of death was asphyxia, caused by someone kneeling on his neck.
Well that's just not right. How can one traumatic death be considered Covid and another not? :roll:
I don”t think trauma deaths should go in the covid category. If some have, that must clearly be a mistake.
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by rats19 »

Per wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:14 pm
Meds wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:05 pm
Per wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:58 am
Meds wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:32 am
They should have tested George Floyd for Covid.....could you imagine the irony during trial? Cops being investigated and charged for a Covid death. Oh the precedence!!!!
They have, and he tested positive. He had taken meth and he had covid-19, but the cause of death was asphyxia, caused by someone kneeling on his neck.
Well that's just not right. How can one traumatic death be considered Covid and another not? :roll:
I don”t think trauma deaths should go in the covid category. If some have, that must clearly be a mistake.
Clearly
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Re: We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

Post by Meds »

Per wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:14 pm
Meds wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:05 pm
Per wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:58 am
Meds wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:32 am
They should have tested George Floyd for Covid.....could you imagine the irony during trial? Cops being investigated and charged for a Covid death. Oh the precedence!!!!
They have, and he tested positive. He had taken meth and he had covid-19, but the cause of death was asphyxia, caused by someone kneeling on his neck.
Well that's just not right. How can one traumatic death be considered Covid and another not? :roll:
I don”t think trauma deaths should go in the covid category. If some have, that must clearly be a mistake.
It's a mistake, but not an accidental one.

Covid, found posthumously, is counted even if a clearly alternate cause of death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9Ci2P ... thouttheBS

Dr. Ngozi - Director of Public Health for the State of Illinois.

Or how about this one.....

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/88141

.....while they are trying to justify it as pneumonia post hospital admission, why the need to put the motorcycle crash on the death certificate?

This was apparently commonplace early on in the US. Doctors recognizing a cause of death but then putting the "/Covid-19" on as well to both cover the "just in case" and also to get the additional funding for having a Covid patient.
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