The Brexit disaster

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BingoTough
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Re: The Brexit disaster

Post by BingoTough » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:13 pm

Unfortunately Per, Labour in the UK are so shambolic that they've basically stepped aside. It's a common problem I feel amongst hard-core socialists generally. Warren/Bernie in the US seem similar.

Even though their opponent is repugnant and almost unthinkable to vote for, rather than ceding some of their hard-core policies so they can capture the silent centre, they double down and go even harder to the left. Corbyn is calling for nationalising industries and many other unfriendly-for-business policies. The middle class tend to be very wary of these as it could hit their bottom line. London is a finance city and one with many global HQs. PM Corbyn will absolutely go after them without remorse. He'd be absolutely okay with Bankers on the dole (welfare) having to pick fruit or work in a factory.

Even if I still lived in the UK, I'd have a tough time voting Labour despite the fact that there are few other parties who can beat them. The frustrating thing is they had a massive majority served on a platter. All they had to do was keep quiet on their extreme policies and go hard after a 2nd referendum with a 'full customs union' as their Brexit option but didn't. As a consequence I'm fairly certain I'll lose my EU citizenship and so will my kids.

What a frustrating outcome. A generation of selfish old farts who will be dead long not long after Britain leaves will ruin things for those left behind. It's an absolute crime.

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Per
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Re: The Brexit disaster

Post by Per » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:43 am

BingoTough wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:13 pm
Unfortunately Per, Labour in the UK are so shambolic that they've basically stepped aside. It's a common problem I feel amongst hard-core socialists generally. Warren/Bernie in the US seem similar.

Even though their opponent is repugnant and almost unthinkable to vote for, rather than ceding some of their hard-core policies so they can capture the silent centre, they double down and go even harder to the left. Corbyn is calling for nationalising industries and many other unfriendly-for-business policies. The middle class tend to be very wary of these as it could hit their bottom line. London is a finance city and one with many global HQs. PM Corbyn will absolutely go after them without remorse. He'd be absolutely okay with Bankers on the dole (welfare) having to pick fruit or work in a factory.

Even if I still lived in the UK, I'd have a tough time voting Labour despite the fact that there are few other parties who can beat them. The frustrating thing is they had a massive majority served on a platter. All they had to do was keep quiet on their extreme policies and go hard after a 2nd referendum with a 'full customs union' as their Brexit option but didn't. As a consequence I'm fairly certain I'll lose my EU citizenship and so will my kids.

What a frustrating outcome. A generation of selfish old farts who will be dead long not long after Britain leaves will ruin things for those left behind. It's an absolute crime.
Yeah, Labour is a mess, but in their defence, the party leadership never wanted Corbyn, they were hoping for Milliband or something of the sort. Then the left wing within the party managed to push through Corbyn (much in the way the Tea Party hi-jacked the Republican party in the USA, leaving traditional conservatives stranded), making the ticket too extreme for the party to have a real shot at winning.

I'm rooting for the LibDems! They're the only party (well, of size that matters, and beside the SNP) to push for revoking article 50 and staying in the EU. If the LibDems get big enough to hold the balance in parliament, they could demand a second referendum as a condition for backing either of Labour or Tories, and maybe end up saving the country! :cheers:

And if some true patriot could get their hands on the Russia report and release it to the public before the elections, I think it could have a huge impact. Why else is Johnson trying to hide it? :eh:

Sadly the freedom of press is rather restricted in the UK, so I'm not sure if they can get the information out there against the government's will. :(

Image
Despite improvements in some areas and the presence of a robust independent media, the UK remained one of the worst-ranked Western European countries in the World Press Freedom Index, largely due to a heavy-handed approach towards the press, often in the name of national security. The menacing Investigatory Powers Act remained on the books with insufficient protection mechanisms for whistleblowers, journalists, and their sources. In September, the UK’s mass surveillance regime was found to violate the European Convention on Human Rights, including with respect to the protection of journalistic sources. New counter-terrorism and crime legislation was introduced that would restrict reporting and put journalists’ data – and their ability to guarantee source protection – at risk. The government continued to explore means of restricting encryption tools. In March, then-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Matt Hancock announced that the threatening Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013 would not be implemented, and the government would seek repeal at the “first appropriate opportunity” – which has not yet happened. The adoption of Magnitsky legislation via an amendment to the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act in May was a welcome step towards holding press freedom predators to account, but is not yet being implemented. In September, journalists Trevor Birney and Barry McCaffrey were arrested in Northern Ireland, had their journalistic materials confiscated, and remain on police bail in connection with the police investigation into the ‘Loughinisland massacre’.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking
Last edited by Per on Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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micky107
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Re: The Brexit disaster

Post by micky107 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:31 pm

The Irish rock.
"evolution"

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Per
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Re: The Brexit disaster

Post by Per » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:36 am

Did Russia meddle in the outcome of the Brexit referendum, or didn’t it? It’s hard to think of a question more pertinent to this general election, and not just because some fear there may be dirty tricks this time too. Boris Johnson’s entire campaign strategy hinges on arguing that Brexit must be done, because it’s the will of the people.

The prime minister cannot admit any whisper of doubt about the legitimacy of the referendum, partly because leave voters would eat him alive for it, and partly because Brexit is his only really big idea. Without it, what is the great Conservative mission to change the country? All that would be left is a row about who should put right the damage his party did over nine years, and a promise not to be Jeremy Corbyn for those who find the idea of a Corbyn government terrifying. Without Brexit, the abyss beckons. And that’s the context in which Downing Street is declining to publish until after the election a parliamentary report expected to shed light on how we ended up with Brexit in the first place.

Since nobody can read the findings, it’s hard to know whether the intelligence and security committee’s conclusion is actually worrying or not, although the Tory-turned-independent MP Dominic Grieve has taken the unusual step as its chair of insisting voters need to see it. (The first rule of ISC, the only parliamentary committee cleared to operate within the intelligence services’ ring of confidence, is not to talk about ISC.)

As with other shady tactics, from Vote Leave’s illegal overspending to the lies that the outgoing EU president Jean-Claude Juncker this week accused Johnson and others of telling, it’s impossible to know if they actually changed the result: remainers are prone to underestimating how strongly many leavers felt, and my own suspicion is that claiming the vote was fixed may be easier than facing up to the real anger in some communities or the political failures that led here. But that’s the whole point of the ISC examining it.

Sitting on its findings until after the election has dangerous consequences for public trust in democracy. This is the first election I can remember where it’s possible to imagine people simply not accepting the result, especially if it’s close. No matter how disappointed we are in the outcome of an election, British voters generally grumble and get on with it. The unwritten rule is that losers accept they’ve lost, so long as winners promise to govern in everyone’s interest. But the smooth transition of power on which democracy depends is conditional on voters trusting that the process was fair. It is reckless beyond belief for governments to risk undermining that trust.

Election law badly needs overhauling. The Electoral Commission is struggling to follow the money, sometimes only identifying breaches of campaign funding rules long after the event. Tech companies are now worried enough about spreading misleading campaign material that Twitter has banned political advertising and Facebook is requiring greater transparency about who is behind it, although the latter still won’t fact-check ads.

Back in February, the Commons select committee on culture, media and sport released a landmark report on disinformation and fake news, arguing that electoral law “is no longer fit for purpose and needs to be changed”. Its chair, Damian Collins, is no conspiracy theorist but a Conservative alarmed by the evidence. We badly need an overhaul of the law to protect the integrity of our democratic process but instead what we’re getting is another snap election with no time for all that, a report withheld and an assumption that voters will just take all this in good faith. The prime minister should stop banking on a trust he has done nothing to earn.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tee-report
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Per
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Re: The Brexit disaster

Post by Per » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:34 pm

Russian Tory donors named in secret report
Intelligence agencies are ‘furious’ over No 10’s block on publication
November 10 2019, 12:01am,

Nine Russian business people who gave money to the Conservative Party are named in a secret intelligence report on the threats posed to UK democracy which was suppressed last week by Downing Street.

Oligarchs and other wealthy Tory donors were included in the report on illicit Russian activities in Britain by the cross-party intelligence and security select committee (ISC), whose publication was blocked by No 10.

Some Russian donors are personally close to the prime minister. Alexander Temerko, who has worked for the Kremlin’s defence ministry and has spoken warmly about his “friend” Boris Johnson, has gifted more than £1.2m to the Conservatives over the past seven years.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russ ... -z98nqpkx0
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Per
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Re: The Brexit disaster

Post by Per » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:02 pm

General elections held on Dec 12th.

Tories say they will get Brexit done.
LibDems say they will revoke article 50 and get Brexit undone.
Labour says they will call for a new referendum on Brexit.
SNP say a new referendum on independence is their condition for supporting any government.
The Brexit party say they will not run candidates in districts where they think the tories will win.

Also, people in the US think Sanders is left wing.
He’s not. He’s fairly middle of the road, from a European
Free healthcare, free education - that’s run of the mill; everyone has it, everyone supports it.
But Corbyn... Sheesh! :shock:

He wants to nationalize pretty much everything Thatcher privatized.
He also wants the government to have a 10% ownership share of every major company in the UK.
Now there’s someone who is truly a leftie.

I think it hurts Labour’s chances, that otherwise should be brilliant, considering how ineffective the Three Tory Stooges (Cameron, May and BoJo) have been. But do the British really want to make that sharp a left turn and have the government run everything? Including becoming part owners of every company? That’s pretty extreme. :|
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