The Brexit disaster

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Re: The Brexit disaster

Post by Per »

UWSaint wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:06 am
* There hasn't been a war in North America (other than civil wars) for a very very very very very long time.
No major conflicts, sure, but there’s been a handful of minor wars since WW2:
The Mexico-Guatemala conflict 1958-59
The Bay of Pigs invasion 1961
The Football War 1969 between Honduras and El Salvador
The invasion of Grenada 1983
The mining of Nicaraguan harbours by CIA in 1984*
The invasion of Panama 1989-1990

*there is some debate though whether this should be considered acts of war or of terrorism, considering that there was no declaration of war preceding the mining, which blew up several Nicaraguan fishing vessels and damaged several cargo ships from Europe and the Soviet Union. It has been compared to the German u-boats sinking vessels from neutral countries during WW1.
* There have been very few intercountry wars since World War II outside of the EU (though civil wars are frequently fought through foreign powers....)
1950-53 the Korean war
1954-62 the Algerian war
1955-75 the Vietnam war
1956 the Suez crisis
1963-66 Indonesia-Malaysia confrontation
1965 Indo-Pakistani war of 1965
1967 the six day war
1967-1970 war of attrition
1968 Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia
1969 Al Wadiah war (Saudia Arabia vs South Yemen)
1972 Tanzania invading Uganda
1973 Yom Kippur war
1974 Turkish invasion of Cyprus
1975 Indonesian invasion of East Timor
1975-89 Cambodian-Vietnamese war
1975-1991 Western Sahara war
1977 Libyan-Egyptian war
1977-78 Ethio-Somali war
1978-79 Uganda-Tanzanian war
1978-87 Chadian-Libyan
1979 Sino-Vietnamese war
1979-89 Soviet-Afghan war
1980-88 Iran-Iraq war
1981 Paquisha war (Peru vs Ecuador)
1982 the Falklands war
1982 Somali-Ethiopian border war
1983 Chadian-Nigerian war
1983 invasion of Grenada
1984-2003 Siachen conflict (India vs Pakistan)
1985 Agacher Strip war (Mali vs Burkina Faso)
1986 US bombing of Libya
1987 Sino-Indian conflict
1987-90 Kenya-Uganda border conflict
1988-94 First Nagorno-Karabakh war
1989-91 Mauretania-Senegal border war
1989-90 invasion of Panama
1990-91 Gulf war
1991-92 South Ossetia war (Russia vs Georgia)
1992-93 Abkhazia (Russia vs Georgia)
1995 Hanish Islands conflict (Eritrea vs Yemen)
1996-97 First Congo war
1998-99 South African intervention in Lesotho
1998-2000 Eritrean-Ethiopian War
1998-2003 Second Congo War
1999 Kargil war (India vs Pakistan)
2002-21 War in Afghanistan
2003-11 War in Iraq
2005 Bangladesh India border clash
2005-10 Chad-Sudan conflict
2008 Bangladesh India border clash
2008 Djiboutian-Eritrean border conflict
2008 Russo-Georgian war
2008-09 Gaza war
2008-12 Cambodian-Thai border dispute
2014 ongoing Russo-Ukrainian war
2016 Armenian-Azerbaijani clashes
2017 Afghan-Pakistani border skirmishes
2018 Armenian-Azerbaijani clashes
2019-20 Persian Gulf crisis
2020 Second Nagorno-Karabakh War
2020 China-India skirmishes
2020-21 Sudanese-Ethiopian clashes
2021 Kyrgyztan-Tajikistan conflict
2021 Armenia-Azerbaijan border

Just to mention a few...

... and then I’ve left out all the liberation wars in the wake of WW2, plus all civil wars including the conflicts in former Yugoslavia and the war in Syria as these could be considered civil wars, even though several recognised nations have had boots on the ground there.
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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UWSaint wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:42 pm
The states in the US are not countries, and you know this.
Not now, but Vermont, Oregon, Texas, California and Hawaii have all been sovereign nations, and Oklahoma was at some point declared to be the future homeland of the first nations’ people. Then there are several parts that used to be part of Spain, Mexico and France. And of course large part of the South at one point declared itself independent, leading to the Civil War.

There is an ongoing struggle within the EU between those that would prefer just a bare bones free trade zone and the federalists that envision a United States of Europe. It is hard to know which way we’ll end up going, but the four freedoms of movement could be seen as a precursor to viewing the entire EU as one nation.

And even though this is not already the case, I think the similarities between the EU and the federal level of the USA are striking. The Commission is similar to the Senate. The European Parliament looks a lot like the House of Representatives, but has not been given the right to pass legislation - yet.

We’ll see what happens. I personally believe a USE scenario to be more likely then a breakup, but most likely the EU will remain a slightly looser union than its North American counterpart for the forseeable future.
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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donlever wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:33 am
Per wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:11 am Uhm... yes, there is.
...I'm not speaking for Saint but just so you know many current date NA's would take the bolded comment, preliminary to the words following, as highly condescending.

As a matter of fact many would find that far more distasteful than the goddamn hockey talk message board "barroom comments" you elected to speak to this past weekend.

If you get my point....
Hiya, Don! Evening.

OK, well, let’s see.

Pro primo, being condescending and being vulgar are not the same thing. Albeit I get your point that one is not necessarily better than the other. Point taken.

Pro secundo, I did not suggest we completely do away with vulgarities, I just suggested we keep them out of hockey talk, which I consider the PG 13 rated section of this here goddamned hockey talk message board, and leave it at the bar, which should be out of bounds for those that have not yet reached the legal drinking age. This is the bar.

Pro tertio, I have no intention of insulting U=dub. I find his posts insightful, well thought out and always a good read. If my comment seemed too glib, I would like to apologize. That being said, I like a good argument, and that includes some good natured ribbing and tongue in cheek comments. The parallells between Washington and Brussels seem obvious to me, even if there are differences. Keep in mind that the USA traces its origins to 1776 whereas the foundation to the EU was laid as recently as 1957. The federal level has yet to consolidate its power in Europe. Either way, I felt I was being lobbed a soft ball and tried to hit it out of the park. Sometimes those balls go out of bounds.

Pro quartio, I’m sitting alone at home with the dog and my ipad, and as I am slowly getting better I’m no longer exhausted all the time. And I finally found someone who is wiling to discuss brexit with me. Give me a break!

;)
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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Alea iacta est. Unio Europaea delenda est.
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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Ah yes, the Korean conflict

Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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Hilariously, the increasing problems with lack of truck drivers in Britain is leading the tory government to propose increasing immigration from the EU to solve the crisis... :lol:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... vnzKLO-z80

Oh, but the rising prices of natural gas mentioned at the end of the article is the result of Russian politics.

The Russians have sold natural gas at very low prices to Europe, leading to an increased dependency on it, and now they have raised the price, leading to protests all over the place.
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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An update from Russell Howard:

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Re: The Brexit disaster

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Not strictly Brexit, I suppose; it involves the chief architect, albeit on a rant about Peppa Pig... :|



:lol:
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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And just as a bonus... Here's some more Russell Howard, and being proper European TV, there's no bleeping of words! :thumbs:



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Re: The Brexit disaster

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According to a recent poll, a majority of Britons believe Brexit has done more damage then good.
One year to the day since the UK left the European Union’s economic structures, the people of Britain believe Brexit has done the country more harm than good, according to a new poll.

The exclusive Savanta survey for The Independent reveals that, on issues ranging from the economy to red tape to Britain’s ability to control its borders, more voters believe Brexit has worsened the UK’s position than improved it.

Almost six out of 10 (57 per cent) believe Boris Johnson lied to them about what Brexit would be like during the bitter referendum campaign of 2016.

And by a clear margin, they said that the Remain campaign’s forecasts of damage to the economy and increased red tape from Brexit have proved more accurate than the Leave campaign’s promises, such as the claim on Mr Johnson’s bus that EU withdrawal would deliver £350m a week for the NHS.

By a slim majority of 51 to 49 per cent respondents said that if they could vote again, they would opt to rejoin the EU – with younger voters hugely more enthusiastic than the old for renewed membership.

More than half of those questioned (51 per cent) want a referendum on rejoining at some point, with 39 per cent saying it should come in the next five years, compared to just 32 per cent who say the issue should never be reopened.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 80372.html

You can fool all people some of the time and some people all of the time, but you can’t fool all people all the time. :drink:
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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Per wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:44 pm You can fool all people some of the time and some people all of the time, but you can’t fool all people all the time. :drink:
So how many people are... they :look: ... hoping to fool with this silly poll?
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Re: The Brexit disaster

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Strangelove wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:37 pm
Per wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:44 pm You can fool all people some of the time and some people all of the time, but you can’t fool all people all the time. :drink:
So how many people are... they :look: ... hoping to fool with this silly poll?
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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Strangelove wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:37 pm
Per wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:44 pm You can fool all people some of the time and some people all of the time, but you can’t fool all people all the time. :drink:
So how many people are... they :look: ... hoping to fool with this silly poll?
None. They sre just checking the temperature.

As time goes by the number of people wishing to repeal Brexit will grow. Partly because people realize the damage it does, partly for natural reasons: two thirds of voters under 30 voted to remain, two thirds of voters over 60 voted to leave. For every year that passes, there will be less brexiteers and more remainers, assuming that the teenagers that reach voting age do not change their mind. And why should they? The EU membership enabled them to travel, study and work throughout the Union without any red tape or hassle. Now they’re locked in in Little Britain.
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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Yeahno Per, more and more folk are awakening to the evils of socialism.

Eventually the evil European Union will be no more.

I call that evolution. :wink:
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Re: The Brexit disaster

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Strangelove wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:02 pm Yeahno Per, more and more folk are awakening to the evils of socialism.

Eventually the evil European Union will be no more.

I call that evolution. :wink:
The EU is socialism?! :shock:

Image

Yeahno, that’s not really the case though, is it? :lol:

The people who came up with the concept and helped form the embryo, the European Coal and Steel Union, were Christian Democrats, which is a conservative party.

Try telling the Greek, who had to do enormous cuts in their social programmes to conform with EU budget rules, that it is a socialist project... :roll:

In Sweden it was the conservatives and liberals that pushed for EU membership while the social democrats were originally dead set against, but gradually started straddling the fence, and the leftists and greens formed the backbone of the opposition.

And if I’m not mistaken it was Thatcher who brough Britain into the Union.
Guess we all know what a fervent socialist she was... Image

In recent years many have seen Angela Merckel as the face of the EU (which she of course technically wasn’t, she was just the German Chancellor, but still) and once again - a conservative Christian Democrat.
And the current President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, another Christian Democrat, is a trained physician, mother of seven, member of the Evangelical Church of Germany, former defence secretary of Germany. Truly reeks of dyed in the wool socialism, eh? :wink:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_von_der_Leyen

So what is the socialist element? Elimination of obstacles for pan-European trade? Hardly. Harmonization of legislation? That’s mainly to facilitate the free movement of people, capital, goods and services, so at the heart of it lies market orientation. Pan-European cooperation? In that case I guess you also consider the USA and Nato as inherently socialist projects. :lol:

No, I really can’t see it. You will need to expand on this.
What is it that makes you think the EU is socialist?
I’m truly curious. Enlighten me! :D
Last edited by Per on Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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