Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[damonberryman]

First one, 3:35 minutes into this video.

No offense but did you read the link you pasted in? The Senator you degrade (rightly or wrongly) is hardly the only Irish politician to point out the major features of the videoed speech. There are a handful of them who seem to agree with him. Just curious.

[damonberryman]

Is that you mean by 'strangelove'?

You wish.

Oh I do. I dream of you every night

[Strangelove]

First one, 3:35 minutes into this video.

No offense but did you read the link you pasted in? The Senator you degrade (rightly or wrongly) is hardly the only Irish politician to point out the major features of the videoed speech. There are a handful of them who seem to agree with him. Just curious.

First of all, no one cares what goes on in the legislature of Ireland.

Secondly, no one there agreed with the claim in question.

(namely: Israelis lured citizens into schools and then bombed those schools - as per the moron David Norris)

(follow the conversation or GTFO)

Thirdly, you did FAR too many drugs in the sixties.

[ukcanuck]

But I'd rather focus on the specific lies that I called you out on.

I'm intrigued as to the "why" brah.

Yeah, I can't fathom the "why".

I want you to address each and every alleged lie in point form forthwith.

First one, 3:35 minutes into this video.

Coordinates were given to 3300 palestianians civilians to take refuge at 6 schools "17" times by the Israelis before they flattened the buildings-claiming they didnt know...

There is the claim that Hamas uses human shields... Maybe that is true, but this incident makes Israel just as bad if not worse because they claim to be an enlightened society.

Hmmm so you're running with a completely unsubstantiated claim by some senator in Ireland?

A guy (David Norris) who is on record for calling Israel...

"an extreme right-wing regime that is behaving in the most criminal fashion"

A guy who said....

"Hamas had nothing to do with the murder of those three Israeli kids"

(since that statement, Hamas has admitted to the murders)

A guy who said....

"Israel created Hamas"

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/ ... 4073100015

THAT guy??!!

Ummmm yeah, like I say, you're spreading lies bro.

FACT: Israel warns palestinians to clear areas before they launch retaliatory strikes.

This moron you're quoting claims the opposite.

Not sure why an ordinarily well-researched intelligent man such as yourself would run with this.

Equally disturbing is that an upstanding Catholic such as yourself would swallow whatever this guys spews.

This guy is a gay politician who called Pope JP "wicked" and "an instrument for evil".

This guy is a gay politician who believes the laws should be changed to allow for "sex with minors".

This guy is a gay politician whose former lover was convicted of raping a 15-year-old Palestinian boy.

This guy asked the court for clemency for his former lover in that case of pedophilia.

(he told the court that if pedophilia was good enough for the ancient Greeks, it should be good enough for us)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Norris_(politician)

And yet YOU stand before us in this forum, naked, hand-in-hand with this twisted lying fuck!

Politics makes strange bedfellows... EH?

First of all you are running with unsubstantiated claims to discredit the witness. None of what you say is fact but merely accusations by the witnesses' political enemies. He is s left wing politician, right wingers always try character assassination and Who take the same tact as you. Namely, pointing to the fact that the dude looks like a lady with a beard.
This is all beside the point.

What he is or isn't doesn't change the fact that he publicly and in anelected body makes accusations that refers to specific detail wherein the Israeli government acted in abhorrent fashion.

This court should not discount this evidence so quickly

Edit: just curious about your insistence on fact, are you accepting that Israel warns where it's going to bomb as fact based on Israel's word for it?
Isn't that a bit like accepting testimony from the accused?
How is that corroborated?

[Strangelove]

First of all you are running with unsubstantiated claims to discredit the witness. None of what you say is fact

UMMM actually it's ALL fact.

I provided a link to a Wikipedia page that has plenty of further links to back that up.

And I provided a link to the official Oireachtas transcript quoting Norris directly.

What he is or isn't doesn't change the fact that he publicly and in anelected body makes accusations that refers to specific detail wherein the Israeli government acted in abhorrent fashion.

This court should not discount this evidence so quickly

Is this some kind of joke?

You can't be serious...

We're talking about some weirdo ranting weird bullshit in the legislature of Ireland!

WHAT evidence, WHAT court??

[Strangelove]

Edit: just curious about your insistence on fact, are you accepting that Israel warns where it's going to bomb as fact based on Israel's word for it?
Isn't that a bit like accepting testimony from the accused?
How is that corroborated?

You are completely out of touch with reality and should avoid any/all Israeli–Palestinian debates.

Don't sweat it though, a lot of hardcore leftists become paranoid & delusional over time.

Just the way she goes....

Israel is monitored very closely in these matters.

They warn palestinian citizens where needed/possible, they are famous for this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... ut-to-bomb

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... ass-threat

http://jcpa.org/article/hamas-israel-co ... al-points/

I could offer up thousands of links.

Google is your friend.

[ukcanuck]

Edit: just curious about your insistence on fact, are you accepting that Israel warns where it's going to bomb as fact based on Israel's word for it?
Isn't that a bit like accepting testimony from the accused?
How is that corroborated?

You are completely out of touch with reality and should avoid any/all Israeli–Palestinian debates.

Don't sweat it though, a lot of hardcore leftists become paranoid & delusional over time.

Just the way she goes....

Israel is monitored very closely in these matters.

They warn palestinian citizens where needed/possible, they are famous for this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... ut-to-bomb

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... ass-threat

http://jcpa.org/article/hamas-israel-co ... al-points/

I could offer up thousands of links.

Google is your friend.

Jewish owned newspapers and clearly biased voices

Explain this to me, why should your links be considered truthful and mine slanted?

Like I've mentioned before which want to ignore, the very logical and time tested search for the truth somewhere in the middle of both sides of the propaganda coin?

I'm not convinced by the new fucking York times not the Washington post anymore than the garbage in our own spin factory national rags

Ask yourself this,
Why would Sulzberger ever print the truth if it hurt his own interests ?

[Meds]

I work in a muslim owned and operated British curriculum private school populated almost entirely by muslim school children (nearly 6000 students all studying to pass British high school standards. 3000 of which are female. All of these kids are heading for university.

So you're basically training their sleeper agents how to blend in with western society while making it easier for them to actually get into their target countries.

That was a joke right?

Nooooo.....

[Strangelove]

I'm not convinced by the new fucking York times nor the Washington post anymore than the garbage in our own spin factory national rags

Yup, that about sums it up.

[ukcanuck]

I'm not convinced by the new fucking York times nor the Washington post anymore than the garbage in our own spin factory national rags

Yup, that about sums it up.

And another New York Jewish dude tosses his hands up in the air! Lol

Yeah you're right that's the difference alright.

You accept what you accept because it falls in line with what you already believe.

I do the same.


That is your answer why?

I'm "spreading lies"
Because I'm questioning the status quo

At least the one I grew up with, which is the same one you did.

And because I'm a lefty I suppose

[ukcanuck]

I work in a muslim owned and operated British curriculum private school populated almost entirely by muslim school children (nearly 6000 students all studying to pass British high school standards. 3000 of which are female. All of these kids are heading for university.

So you're basically training their sleeper agents how to blend in with western society while making it easier for them to actually get into their target countries.

That was a joke right?

Nooooo.....

Well then you are an even bigger fool than I thought.

Stick to hockey Mëds, seriously

[Meds]

Nooooo.....

Well then you are an even bigger fool than I thought.

Stick to hockey Mëds, seriously

[ukcanuck]

Sorry Mëds I missed the smiley face at the end, it was a long weekend here...

Eid mubarak ...

[Strangelove]

You accept what you accept because it falls in line with what you already believe.

I do the same.

You'd be surprised to learn that some of us actually pride ourselves on discerning the truth.

As a matter of fact, we consider anything less to be uncivilized.

Hard to believe you're a teacher.

UK: "Kids, burn your history books and just believe whatever you want to believe."

Is Israel included in your geography text books over there?

Thanks for finally admitting you choose to believe any/all unsubstantiated negative crap about Israel at face value.

And ignore anything positive about Israel no matter how well documented.

[ukcanuck]

You accept what you accept because it falls in line with what you already believe.

I do the same.

You'd be surprised to learn that some of us actually pride ourselves on discerning the truth.

As a matter of fact, we consider anything less to be uncivilized.

Hard to believe you're a teacher.

UK: "Kids, burn your history books and just believe whatever you want to believe."

Is Israel included in your geography text books over there?

Thanks for finally admitting you choose to believe any/all unsubstantiated negative crap about Israel at face value.

And ignore anything positive about Israel no matter how well documented.

Yes Israel is on maps here, I have a map on my classroom wall and damn if it's not right there in the middle of Palestine.

Doc didn't you know there is an entire industry of rewriting history text books to update and change what's in them to better reflect our understanding of history?

There is this thing called historiography, a disciplne that seeks the actual truth through other sources such a letters and communications, bank records, bills, catalogs, manuscripts, manifests and other official documents that changes "official history" all the time

What was in the history books about national socialist Germany even ten years ago is not what is understood today.
The American civil war and slavery are understood much differently than what was in history textbooks 20 years ago.

It's all about the sources.

Which I'm sorry but you are the one displaying willful ignorance by disregarding the handful of sources I gave you - apparently because you don't like what's being said or who is saying them.

- I am definitely not ignoring whatever positive things that Israel has done at all, I'm merely examining the other side of the paradigm.

No one is all good or all bad. I've discovered that much in life and living amongst whom I thought (like so many from the west) were completely fanatical and completely off their bean, turn out to exactly like us, but with different names for the same basic things.

However, I'm getting off the point...

Well documented?

It doesn't make something well documented if it's reported over and over in a syndicated newspaper

The New York Times is wholly owned by a Jewish family who are clearly apart of the established jewish dominated media community in North America.

The same interest group that has funded american geopolitics for the last hundred or so years.
The same interest group that cut its teeth in propaganda in two world wars

Can you see where I'm going here ?

Israel is an important piece of american national interest, does it not make sense that the message delivered in the Times or post, if not outright propaganda is going to be one sided?

Try using the New York Times as a source in an undergrad university paper...you'll see what I mean.

That link you gave about the roof knocking ... That's full of illogical holes.

Do you think that in Gaza where they have rained down a barrage of missiles and bombs this summer that there is a reliable telephone network still operating?

Do think there is a shopping mall where people can just go buy cell phones?

Did you read my source, a freelance reporter who says that there is no longer facility enough there to supply baked bread for sale ?

Better still do you think that Israel would allow cell phones in Gaza seeing as how useful they are in making IEDs or for organizing terror strikes by Hamas?

I'm sorry the whole thing might have been plausible once and on a very limited scale but not this past summer it doesn't.

Actually what it really looks like is a sham attempt to make it seem like Israel is being nice while occupying and terrorizing lands and people that do not belong to them.

(Yes I know they had no choice to occupy those territories once, but increasingly it seems that holding these people under their thumbs actually increases the violence)

Oh and thanks for putting words in my mouth, you and topper are two peas in a pod.

I was admitting and inviting you to admit that we are always plagued by our own biases.

I'm trying to be reasonable your trying to score points in a kangaroo court.