Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Megaterio Llamas
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

ukcanuck wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:12 pm
The Brown Wizard wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:38 pm So jews are ancient desert natives that got their land back.


Jews are 1 of 3 ancient desert natives otherwise known as semites and it’s interesting that Christian semites Jewish semites and Muslim semites lived side by side in Palestine for nearly 2000 years peacefully with no issues whatsoever.
It wasn’t until the fall of the Ottoman Empire when Britain, France and the League of Nations as the senior empires divided the entire Middle East along political lines rather than local tradition that started the bad blood.

If you look at any map and see straight borders then it’s most likely a political border rather than a religious ethnic or geographic border - Saskatchewan for example.

The concept of nation states with borders is a transplanted notion in the Middle East. Before the original colonization by Europeans semites divided themselves by tribe and by access to drinking water. Natural springs and wells are the life blood of the desert not lines on a map that change with the direction of the wind that moves sand like it was a sea (hence camels as ships of the desert)
Yes, the Ottomans organized people according to their religious faith group, their mother church or Islamic creed became their 'millet' regardless of geography and the patriarch governed the flock. Syro-Philistine was the early Syriac Christian identity of the Christian Jews which is were the Palestinian identity stems from. The three dialects of Aramaic spoken in the Holy Land were Jewish Aramaic, Palestinian Christian Neo Aramaic and Samaritan and with the Islamic conquest all three groups were gradually assimilated into the new Palestinian Arab civilization.

The West, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Franks etc were in continuous contact with the Near East since the pre Christian era and throughout the seldom discussed Syrian Oriental era so we don't need to guess about any of this.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Topper wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:37 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:55 pm Also, the Nicaraguan conflict is quite a bit more complex than Mr Chomsky lets on. The Sandanistas initiated a colonization project of the Miskito Indian lands of the Atlantic Coast that continues until this day in an area that had been an Anglophone zone for 300 years and was destined to be a sister independent state to Belize until the US intervened because Cornelius Vanderbilt wanted to built a trans Isthmus canal along the San Juan River, a route China is now considering developing itself. The whole history of the Miskito Coast is quite fascinating and includes the only native American Kingdom that was recognized as independent by one of the great powers Great Britain.
Weird place visited some mineral exploration projects and one active mine in NE Nica. Mine was owned by the Hunt Brothers until the Sandinista's expropriated it and ran it into the ground. Spent a night at the mine, most decrepit place I've ever stayed. they kicked a couple of miner out of their rooms so we'd have beds, so filthy I slept in my clothes, water was the colour of red mud, bought a bottle of Coke to brush my teeth with.

I toured the area with a geo working on our Mexico projects. He was Nica, at university in Mexico when the Sandinista came to power. His father, a rancher, got visit one night from the local Sandinista telling him he had 24 hrs to leave. My co-worker said it was one of the hardest things he had ever done, meeting his father the next day at the Mex City airport. One of his brothers was a player in the Sandinista. While we were there, he met with another brother but refused to meet the Sandinista brother.

I did a massive lineament compilation from air photos for much of the northern part of the coastal area to look for structures that may control the abundant gold mineralization in the area. A few years later, another colleague of mine worked there. Not unusual to still find landmines in the stream beds.

I somehow became linked to a Miami stock broker who was working on reviving the canal/rail cross isthmus proposal and he kept sending me emails about it.

Then there are the Garifuna. They also reside in Belize and are similar to the Maroons in Jamaica. While they claim some mystical stature, they are descendants of runaway, and in many cases, half breed, slaves from the Lesser Antilles.
It's a very harsh, inhospitable country by reputation. There are some Garifuna in the Pear Lagoon region on the south coast that were brought in to do work for the British in the pre Nicaraguan late colonial era. They are Africanized Indians from St Vincent in the Lesser Antilles who were deported to Central America a little over two hundred years ago and spread up and down the Honduran and Belize coastline.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Hilariously every black person in Belize claims to be Garifuna and there is a National Garifuna Day holiday. Sitting on the sidewalk of my local, drinking a Beliken stout, black guy passes by and asked if I'd buy him a beer on his national day, told him sure as long as he buys me a beer every other day of the year. He left.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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I went into Nicaragua from Costa Rica years ago along the west coast...had a total blast.

I used to surf a little and that was one of the best times i ever had anywhere. Those people love to get really fucked up it turns out
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Per wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:48 am
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:46 pm
The Brown Wizard wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:38 pm So jews are ancient desert natives that got their land back.
I think the Pals are basically Arabized Jews themselves.

So it's sort of the same people fighting each other over that tiny piece of land. It's a tragedy.
Exactly. Genetic studies have shown that Palestinians are of roughly 80% Jewish heritage. The people referred to as Jews today are the descendants of the Jewish refugees that left the area in Roman times. The people referred to as Palestinians are the descendants of the Jews that never left. First they were romanized, then christianized, then arabized. But there are telltale signs in their culture that show their Jewish heritage, well, and of course their dna.

The sad part is that Israelis and Palestinians alike refuse to accept the science. They refuse to acknowledge that they are really the same people. Too much hatred on both sides.
I think they know the facts.

They know Jews and "Palestinians" are descended from Abraham, primarily speaking.

Abraham had two sons: Isaac, son of Sarah (his wife) and Ishmael, son of Hagar (Sarah's Egyptian servant).

Long story but the children of Isaac and the children of Ishmael were diametrically opposed from Day One.

Ever known siblings that grew up to hate each other?

Same thing here, sometimes similar DNA's got nothing to do with it.

It was always about which group has the God-given right to a particular piece of land...
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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It is such a conundrum, two native peoples with equally strong claims to the land fighting over the same territory. There really is no 'wrong side' in this struggle. It really tends to divide people which is why I go a considerable distance to avoid the topic myself. But yeah, it does tend to come down to personal beliefs in the end. Which is why I'm ride or die with the Palestinian Christians and have been for most of my life.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Historically one of the three main contact points for the peoples of the Miskito Coast was the port of New Orleans. Many Cajun and Creole men passed through the Coast over the years and Miskito men vice versa to New Orleans.

Can you hear the Cajun Creole influence in this Miskito folk song? I really can really pick it up coming in strong.

This kind of shit has always fascinated me :lol:


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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Shits gone bananas over there recently, well more so than recently.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/1 ... escalation
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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"
Hey, man, I got some weed straight from Turkey, boy. It's what set them Arabs off
"

UK...thoughts on what set them arabs off?
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Cousin Strawberry wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:26 pm

"
Hey, man, I got some weed straight from Turkey, boy. It's what set them Arabs off
"

UK...thoughts on what set them arabs off?
Seems mIsrael is forcing some Arabs out of there longtime family homes in east Jerusalem to make way for expansion of Jewish settlement in what is occupied or disputed land.

The Arabs responded with protest in the streets, the Israelis responded with force in and around a major league important mosque arresting and brutalizing demonstrators which outraged Hamas and they launched 15O rockets at Israel injuring a couple of Israeli citizens.

Israel responded with air strikes killing up to 20 Arabs including a reported 9 children. Israel has not commented on the extent of their response to the rocket fire.

Right now it seems to be a question of rights. Israel of course had the right to defend itself but somehow no one wants to comment on what rights Palestinians have to defend themselves while being illegally evicted from their homes by an occupying force that had no legal right to be there in the first place.

I’m sure Strange 🧤 is going to flip out but what do you call it when you forcibly relocate one group of people based on religion and ethnicity while replacing them with settlers of a more agreeable religion and ethnicity ?


Some people would call that ethnic cleansing...
Last edited by ukcanuck on Thu May 13, 2021 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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But.. Werent the jews ethnically cleansed outta there by the ottomans so how far back is this gonna go? The egyptians? Romans? Greeks? Neanderthals? Where will it fucking end UK?
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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ukcanuck wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:48 pm Hamas and they launched 15O rockets at Israel injuring a couple of Israeli citizens.
Killed 6 Israeli citizens, but hey no one expects honest reporting from the likes of you.

All of your numbers are way off actually...

ukcanuck wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:48 pm Some people antisemites would call that ethnic cleansing...
Fixed.

UK on the side of palestinian terrorists?? Say it ain't so lol...
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Cousin Strawberry wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:54 pm But.. Werent the jews ethnically cleansed outta there by the ottomans so how far back is this gonna go? The egyptians? Romans? Greeks? Neanderthals? Where will it fucking end UK?
No I don’t think so, a case might be made that the romans ethnically cleansed Palestine of Judaism 2000 years ago but that would not entirely true. Especially since the romans have been gone for nearly 1800 years. Up to the start of World War One, Jews and Muslims and Christians lived in Palestine peacefully until the British, French and Americans fucked it all up seemingly on purpose. (Something about securing Middle East oil from first the Germans and then the Soviets)

Anyway it goes back and forth ad nauseam. But what would be awesome is if anyone can explain how the US can’t afford healthcare for its citizens but it can afford to send 3 billion dollars a year if taxpayer money to Israel with no questions asked

Let me ask you, what would you do if you were a Palestinian? Just pack your shit and move ?
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Strangelove wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:02 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:48 pm Hamas and they launched 15O rockets at Israel injuring a couple of Israeli citizens.
Killed 6 Israeli citizens, but hey no one expects honest reporting from the likes of you.

All of your numbers are way off actually...

ukcanuck wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:48 pm Some people antisemites would call that ethnic cleansing...
Fixed.

UK on the side of palestinian terrorists?? Say it ain't so lol...
Yeah sorry, is it 6 Israelis? I wouldn’t want to sell a life short.

But right now the numbers aren’t being released or repeated in the media so can’t really say what the numbers are for sure other than to say that since the Israelis are far far better armed, the casualties are going to be heavier with Palestinians.

And yeah I also sympathize with Palestinians they are people too, why should anyone apologize for that? Oh that’s right terrorism.

That’s the same bullshit defence of atrocities. They were terrorists. If ever there were a more dishonest word.

George Washington was a terrorist. The framers of the US constitution were terrorists. The Boston tea party was a blatant violation of property rights

You know how you can tell a terrorist from a freedom fighter?

The terrorist is the one with the shitty PR firm.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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ukcanuck wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:06 pm But what would be awesome is if anyone can explain how the US can’t afford healthcare for its citizens but it can afford to send 3 billion dollars a year if taxpayer money to Israel with no questions asked
Hmmm, that's about $10 per head

... roughly the same amount per head that the Palestinians spent on rockets over the last few days.

Would be awesome if someone could explain how the "deprived" Palestinians can afford dat dere.

ukcanuck wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:06 pm Let me ask you, what would you do if you were a Palestinian? Just pack your shit and move ?
If I were a Palestinian, I'd be pushing for a peace deal, that land is like paradise.

But then other Palestinians would kill me for being a "Jew lover" so that wouldn't work...
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