Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by ukcanuck »

Strangelove wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:02 pm The humanitarian view is also that if you target civilians you are human scum.
The humanitarian view is there is no human scum only lost souls.

The humanitarian view is that children can not be terrorists

The humanitarian view is that international law must prevail.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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ukcanuck wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 3:49 pm
Strangelove wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:02 pm The humanitarian view is also that if you target civilians you are human scum.
The humanitarian view is there is no human scum only lost souls.

The humanitarian view is that children can not be terrorists

The humanitarian view is that international law must prevail.
Oh joy, more semantics games from UK weeeeee...

https://www.icrc.org/en/document/counte ... anizations

"International humanitarian law (IHL) prohibits terrorists acts. As a humanitarian actor, and as guardian of IHL, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) condemns such acts, irrespective of their perpetrators, and recognizes the need for States to take measures to ensure the security of their people."

Humanitarians condemn terrorists.

You keep restating the tired cliché "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"

... in response to me stating the Palestinian rocket attacks = terrorism.

One can only conclude then that you consider the Palestinian rocket attacks to be "freedom fighting".

In that case, I can only hope CSIS is monitoring you closely and about to pounce.

Now, just to recap the conversation thus far...

Strange: The Palestinian rocket attacks are terrorism.

UK: What is terrorism really? Arafat was a great humanitarian.

Strange: Arafat was a terrorist.

UK: No he wasn't. *plays semantics game around the word terrorism*. Says George Washington was a terrorist.

Strange: Please explain to the class how George Washington is a terrorist and Yasser Fucking Arafat is not. You can start by giving us rough figures for how many civilians Arafat/Washington murdered in cold blood.

UK: Quotes some random guy named Patrick J. Tyson; talks about Mandela + Begin + Wallace.

Strange: Murdering civilians is horrifyingly immoral. Do you disagree?

UK: No response.


Nothing but deflection, whataboutism, semantics, and scary shit from UK...
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Playing at semantics ? From the king of semantics himself. I should be honoured I guess.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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ukcanuck wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:18 pm Playing at semantics ? From the king of semantics himself. I should be honoured I guess.
You're not going to do it are you?

You're not going to admit your friends are terrorists.

You're not going to say murdering civilians is horrifyingly immoral.

:hmmm:


One could deduct that you think murdering civilians qualifies as "freedom fighting".
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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If you need air...call it in
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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.
^ YeeeeeeeeeeUP!
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Yeah that’s exactly what the talking heads are all asking, do you condemn firing rockets on Israeli citizens

Hamas is the far right, extreme Islamist and terrorist end of the political spectrum. They should be and are condemned in court of world opinion, no one supports that, launching rockets clearly is an act of war.

Why does that require a clarification? We are all gentlemen here.


Oh wait, but do you agree that forcibly removing law abiding Arab Palestinians from their long standing homes, having those homes bulldozed in order to build gated security condos subsidized by an occupying military force is ethnic cleansing?

Because it’s crooked pool to whine self defence while the guy is on the ground flailing about with your boot on his neck.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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ukcanuck wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:28 pm Yeah that’s exactly what the talking heads are all asking, do you condemn firing rockets on Israeli citizens

Hamas is the far right, extreme Islamist and terrorist end of the political spectrum. They should be and are condemned in court of world opinion, no one supports that, launching rockets clearly is an act of war.

Why does that require a clarification? We are all gentlemen here.
Oh you're a gentleman now are you? :lol:

We need YOU to PERSONALLY condemn it, because so far all you've done is justify the random slaughter of civilians by Hamas

... a notorious terrorist group voted into power by the Palestinian people.

Go ahead, simply state the rocket attacks on random Israeli citizens is evil, without any of your deflection, whataboutism, or semantics.

No justification, only condemnation.

Take your time, I'll wait.

*checks watch*

You can't do it, can you. :scowl:

Why, I'll bet the 2nd half of this post is more of your justification...

ukcanuck wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:28 pm Oh wait, but do you agree that forcibly removing law abiding Arab Palestinians from their long standing homes, having those homes bulldozed in order to build gated security condos subsidized by an occupying military force is ethnic cleansing?

Because it’s crooked pool to whine self defence while the guy is on the ground flailing about with your boot on his neck.
YeeeeeUP, more justification from the "gentleman" UKcanuck! :lol:

And again with the "ethnic cleansing"!

Image

Accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing is one of the definitions of antisemitism you know.

As is the justification of terrorist attacks against her population.

You hate being proven to be an antisemite, and you knew it might happen if you entered this debate.

But. You. Just. Can't. Help. Yourself.

It's a passion of yours, an obsession, you are chock-full of hatred, a moth to the flame...

"Cuntservatives" - Gentleman UKcanuck, 32 times
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

ukcanuck wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:28 pm Yeah that’s exactly what the talking heads are all asking, do you condemn firing rockets on Israeli citizens

Hamas is the far right, extreme Islamist and terrorist end of the political spectrum. They should be and are condemned in court of world opinion, no one supports that, launching rockets clearly is an act of war.

Why does that require a clarification? We are all gentlemen here.


Oh wait, but do you agree that forcibly removing law abiding Arab Palestinians from their long standing homes, having those homes bulldozed in order to build gated security condos subsidized by an occupying military force is ethnic cleansing?

Because it’s crooked pool to whine self defence while the guy is on the ground flailing about with your boot on his neck.
The jewish diaspora predates pretty well all recorded history so maybe recently the palestinians laid claim to these lands but they have always been the ancestral home of the jews.

Obviously bulldozing them out is extreme but these people have been oppressed and forced from their homes by force for millennia so they are far less sympathetic and more likely to be ruthless to reclaim what they feel is theirs. Remember before islam (which is relatively new) they would've all been jews as they share a common heritage
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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My favourite source of Israeli news

https://www.debka.com/

The IDF has been targeting weapons production and storage.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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Cousin Strawberry wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:09 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:28 pm Yeah that’s exactly what the talking heads are all asking, do you condemn firing rockets on Israeli citizens

Hamas is the far right, extreme Islamist and terrorist end of the political spectrum. They should be and are condemned in court of world opinion, no one supports that, launching rockets clearly is an act of war.

Why does that require a clarification? We are all gentlemen here.


Oh wait, but do you agree that forcibly removing law abiding Arab Palestinians from their long standing homes, having those homes bulldozed in order to build gated security condos subsidized by an occupying military force is ethnic cleansing?

Because it’s crooked pool to whine self defence while the guy is on the ground flailing about with your boot on his neck.
The jewish diaspora predates pretty well all recorded history so maybe recently the palestinians laid claim to these lands but they have always been the ancestral home of the jews.

Obviously bulldozing them out is extreme but these people have been oppressed and forced from their homes by force for millennia so they are far less sympathetic and more likely to be ruthless to reclaim what they feel is theirs. Remember before islam (which is relatively new) they would've all been jews as they share a common heritage
I’m sure the Jews and Muslims can go back and forth all day about he said, she said in the past but I look at this way.

1948-49 saw the re-creation of Israel from the cake that was Palestine. The Jews got half and the Palestinians got half.

The Jews accepted their slice and have all full credit to them turned Israel into a modern jewel in the Middle East.

The Palestinians for their part didn’t accept the partition and threw a fit. Arabs in general had been promised independence by the western allies and they felt cutting Palestine in half was a betrayal. So the Palestinians threw their slice of cake back and the rest of the Arabs tried to take the whole thing and failed.

The newly formed Israel won the day and occupied all the territory that was promised to the Palestinians. So far Israel looks like hero’s. They got their country back, they won the war against the Arab coalition and all is cake by the ocean for them and the call goes out around the world for the Jews to come home for the first time in 2000 years.
What a Hollywood story and good for them! Who could not be a fan?

But for the Palestinians who fought alongside everyone else against the Turks in WW1 and against the nazis in WW2 were betrayed by the west and then occupied by the Israelis? not so much.

Now its the Palestinians who are homeless and witnessing a diaspora themselves having fled or forced to relocate throughout the muslim world.

For those that have stayed? They are virtual prisoners in a large concentration camp. (SL is probably twisting in rage at this moment screaming anti semetism at the mention of concentration camp) but the nazis didn’t invent concentration camps the Spanish empire did in Cuba. In the face of internal rebellion when you don’t know who the bad guys are, you round everyone up and hold them in camps while you sort out who is who and which ones you’re going to execute.

SL doesn’t like to hear it but the Israelis control all land crossings, all airports, and all seaports. Nothing gets in or out without inspection and fees from the Israelis and anything that could be used in a rebellion like smart phones or electronics are tightly controlled.

The tunnels that first the PLO then Hamas used to smuggle in the pitchforks and soviet era rockets? They are mostly used to smuggle in KFC Chicken and other products banned by Jewish custom and tradition. It’s not really a reach to conclude that every part of every Palestinian’s life is monitored and controlled by the Israelis

The Israelis have held the Palestinians in this kind of camp for 54 years. The longest occupation of extra national territory in modern nation state history. And after 54 years of back and forth between both sides has long ago slid into an entrenched state of bad blood.

But the kicker and the line in the sand is the Israeli policy of sending Jewish settlers into territories that were not part of their original slice of cake and then annexing that territory into Israel proper. You can see the problem right? Over time less and less of Palestine remains. The idea of a two state solution, the only fair solution is being eliminated slowly by the Israeli policies.

So here’s the question, what would you have the Palestinians do? Curl up and die or fight back?
No one can expect them to curl up and die so what’s left? Fight back. But the second a Palestinian picks up a rock he is a terrorist !

You can see a version of that right here with SL’s coming unglued over my suggestion that, hey these are just people trying to get a place in the sun and if you prevent them from that, if you deny a man a chance at a home and a hearth and children running underfoot then he picks up a gun and becomes a terrorist. If you take his gun he will use rocks. If you take the rocks from him, if you systematically remove every other avenue for that man to regain his hope, if you render him hopeless he will strap a bomb to his ass and walk into the nearest coffee shop. That’s the nature of terrorism.

And btw let’s not climb too high up on that high horse, plenty of our own hero’s have been or have committed acts of terrorism over the years. Violence is terrorism

George Washington was a terrorist to the British, they had a price on his head and if they had got their hands on him they would have hung him no questions asked. The list of acts of terror pretty began with Cain bashing in Abel’s head and we’ve been doing it to each other ever since.

In all of that history of cold blooded murder to suddenly stand up and point fingers at Hamas is too rich. Oh NOW there are rules of engagement? After we drag them out of their homes, beat them in the streets and brutalize them in their mosques, after we leave them no legal or peaceful recourse and after 54 years of the loss of their homeland, inch by inch street by street. Now we are going to get picky about which kind of murder is justified and which kind is “terrorism?”


Yeah, sorry, I for one am not that stupid. I look at two dogs fighting and I see two dogs fighting

I’ve read enough history to know that history textbooks are bullshit

And I know that cuntservatives exist and are out there and their Christian Right agenda means more to them than accepting reality so yeah fuck that.

That mess over there called the middle east ? That shithole is all our own doing. Think about it, for nearly 2000 years Jews muslim and Christians living in Palestine have lived in harmony worshipping religions that are nearly identical peacefully

A hundred years ago they discover oil and bang two world wars later they are at each others throats and we own control all the oil under their feet. Coincidence? I think not ...
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by ukcanuck »

Strangelove wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:05 pm
ukcanuck wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:28 pm Yeah that’s exactly what the talking heads are all asking, do you condemn firing rockets on Israeli citizens

Hamas is the far right, extreme Islamist and terrorist end of the political spectrum. They should be and are condemned in court of world opinion, no one supports that, launching rockets clearly is an act of war.

Why does that require a clarification? We are all gentlemen here.
Oh you're a gentleman now are you? :lol:

We need YOU to PERSONALLY condemn it, because so far all you've done is justify the random slaughter of civilians by Hamas

... a notorious terrorist group voted into power by the Palestinian people.

Go ahead, simply state the rocket attacks on random Israeli citizens is evil, without any of your deflection, whataboutism, or semantics.

No justification, only condemnation.

Take your time, I'll wait.

*checks watch*

You can't do it, can you. :scowl:

Why, I'll bet the 2nd half of this post is more of your justification...

ukcanuck wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 8:28 pm Oh wait, but do you agree that forcibly removing law abiding Arab Palestinians from their long standing homes, having those homes bulldozed in order to build gated security condos subsidized by an occupying military force is ethnic cleansing?

Because it’s crooked pool to whine self defence while the guy is on the ground flailing about with your boot on his neck.
YeeeeeUP, more justification from the "gentleman" UKcanuck! :lol:

And again with the "ethnic cleansing"!

Image

Accusing Israel of ethnic cleansing is one of the definitions of antisemitism you know.

As is the justification of terrorist attacks against her population.

You hate being proven to be an antisemite, and you knew it might happen if you entered this debate.

But. You. Just. Can't. Help. Yourself.

It's a passion of yours, an obsession, you are chock-full of hatred, a moth to the flame...

"Cuntservatives" - Gentleman UKcanuck, 32 times

Lol only 32 times? Out of respect for the collateral damage I might have caused fellow conservative posters like rats by calling all conservatives cuntservatives (only 32 times) I have backed off that term recently but that clearly hasn’t been enough for you to occupy a more reasonable tone and space?

You seem to keep on with your 1950s style Cold War rhetoric. I guess it helps you sleep better.

As for needing to hear me say that terrorism is bad? I will not comply to serve your intentions

1. You need to win every argument all the time and it matters not whether you are in the right or the wrong (that breeze you just felt was every poster on here nodding their heads in unison)

2. You go first, what the Israelis are doing is clearly and unmistakably ethnic cleansing. They are forcibly, extra-judiciously, removing one set of ethnic people to be replaced by another set of ethnic people.

Now they are doing it in east Jerusalem the presumptive capital of the nation called Palestine.

I have been hesitating to throw this in because I don’t want to go off in another tangent but this? What’s happening right now? This is all that asshole Donald Trump’s fault.

Moving the US embassy has emboldened the Israelis and has humiliated the Palestinians. The resulting rocket fire and air strikes? You can lay them at the feet of the Cheeto Christ himself
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

:lol:

You do really get frothing in debates dont you haha

The middle east has NOT seen everyone living in harmony UK. Fuck man they've been at each other since cave men and will continue to be at each other til extinction no matter who succedes rocky scrubland to who.

The jews have one home but there are 30+ arab states in the region that would accept them and their islamic customs without any compunction whatsoever. Its just that they want that piece of dried up hell because they despise the jews getting it.

Its all just anger and pettiness on both sides. I honestly am not standing up for how Israel has acted but i can see why they have. The mid east is a shithole full of fanatical religious zealots....too bad its the cradle of humanity
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by ukcanuck »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 am :lol:

You do really get frothing in debates dont you haha

The middle east has NOT seen everyone living in harmony UK. Fuck man they've been at each other since cave men and will continue to be at each other til extinction no matter who succedes rocky scrubland to who.

The jews have one home but there are 30+ arab states in the region that would accept them and their islamic customs without any compunction whatsoever. Its just that they want that piece of dried up hell because they despise the jews getting it.

Its all just anger and pettiness on both sides. I honestly am not standing up for how Israel has acted but i can see why they have. The mid east is a shithole full of fanatical religious zealots....too bad its the cradle of humanity
I do like a good political dust up yeah I admit. :oops:
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Re: Israeli–Palestinian conflict

Post by ukcanuck »

Topper wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 9:28 pm My favourite source of Israeli news

https://www.debka.com/

The IDF has been targeting weapons production and storage.
Does your source have a decent explanation as to why Israel knocked down a 7 storey apartment block containing offices for the associated press in the Gaza Strip?

Are the Israelis claiming that it was a hotbed of Hamas terrorist activities? Secretly building rockets In a building full of international reporters? Using international reporters as a human shield?

Or is it the Israelis don’t want international witnesses seeing what they are doing when no one is looking ?
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