Kneecaps

[Topper]

Your missing the argument that teachers know better how to compose class sizes and composition that a bean counter in Victoria

Education policy is the responsibility of the Provincial Government and has been that way since the British North America Act.

The tail does not wag the dog.

and each district has a local BCTF

Some district have two BCTF offices. Just ask Iker, he ran one of the double represented BCTF locals pocketing his executive salary (teachers union dues) for being redundant.

[ukcanuck]

Your missing the argument that teachers know better how to compose class sizes and composition that a bean counter in Victoria

Education policy is the responsibility of the Provincial Government and has been that way since the British North America Act.

The tail does not wag the dog.

and each district has a local BCTF

Some district have two BCTF offices. Just ask Iker, he ran one of the double represented BCTF locals pocketing his executive salary (teachers union dues) for being redundant.

That's why class composition and class size need to be negotiated because teachers know which children need testing and which need additional support

Teachers have education degrees and know how to deliver courses.

Government should facilitate the education system not control it in order to cut costs

Teachers are a part of the education system not an enemy of the state.


Class size goes to working conditions and quality of service for students. Unlimited class sizes makes the possibility of 35 kids and that's a physical impossible number and still mark every piece of work and plan differentiated lessons. I would need to spend another 25-30 hours a week just keeping up.

Composition should be a three way decision between the teacher, administration and a doctor, not allowing testing by the ministry because of budget concerns is not an acceptable answer in many cases.

This is just how it needs to be to work

[Topper]

Unlimited class sizes makes the possibility of 35 kids and that's a physical impossible number and still mark every piece of work and plan differentiated lessons. I would need to spend another 25-30 hours a week just keeping up.

35 students was quite common in the classes I went to elementary school in.

Composition should be a three way decision between the teacher, administration and a doctor, not allowing testing by the ministry because of budget concerns is not an acceptable answer in many cases.

This is just how it needs to be to work

Your version of educational utopia needs a do$e of reality.

Teachers went to school to learn to teach, educational policy is the domain of the elected government. Just as taxation and budgeting is.

[ukcanuck]

Unlimited class sizes makes the possibility of 35 kids and that's a physical impossible number and still mark every piece of work and plan differentiated lessons. I would need to spend another 25-30 hours a week just keeping up.

35 students was quite common in the classes I went to elementary school in.

Composition should be a three way decision between the teacher, administration and a doctor, not allowing testing by the ministry because of budget concerns is not an acceptable answer in many cases.

This is just how it needs to be to work

Your version of educational utopia needs a do$e of reality.

Teachers went to school to learn to teach, educational policy is the domain of the elected government. Just as taxation and budgeting is.

Tax and budgets are numbers education is about people.

You should be aware that anecdotal evidence is not always valuable.

Sure 35 kids in a elementary classroom when I went to school was not uncommon in the 1970s
But 2014 and it's a different world.

35 kids in high school college prep courses and provincial exam courses are way out of line.

Private schools know the optimum is 22. That's what the public system should shoot for.


As for coin yeah it's more expensive but that's the reality, it's about priorities



Sure, the governments concern is to keep costs down but it's teachers concern to provide the expertise ...

It's called balance which is what class size used to be

Now it's all the way to the government side and there are kids and parents getting screwed over.
And that is fact not my version of utopia.

Pretty sure if it was your kid who couldn't get the timetables or kept putting letters backwards and was being marginalized in classrooms and on the playground and withdrawing into himself no matter what you were doing at home would colour your idea of dollars and sense

[SKYO]

September 22nd we can finally send our kids back to school to get their education...order shall be restored.

[Blob Mckenzie]

We can't raise taxes on the middle class, blobber will explode

Blob is fine if taxes are raised. Blob is not fine when the taxes are raised but the overall situation does not improve. Blob has a problem when hospital janitors are raking in $35 an hour and welfare slugs get 1000 a month because they are too fucking lazy and useless to go get a job. Blob has a problem with gobs of money going to ESL and teachers who want class sizes of 20 kids just like the private schools have. Go teach at a fucking private school if this is such a big deal to you. I'm sure the public system will survive your loss.

I have had one raise in the last five years uk yet you don't hear me constantly bitching about it. I do ok but my income is supplemented by my company performing well and my overtime, not because I have my fucking hand out asking for more all the time.

Maybe the resources that the govt receives could be better allocated than just dinging the taxpayer more every time the nurses/teachers/cupe etc jump up and down and scream for more. I forgot that's the NDP way. Just hit the taxpayer with the bill. There is a reason the NFG has formed govt only three fucking times in this province. I will give you a hint . It's not because we are all idiots for voting for Socreds and Liberals. Maybe it is the commies who are out to lunch here.

[SKYO]

I'm psychic!

Details emerging of a 6-year deal negotiated by BCTF, government
http://globalnews.ca/news/1566757/detai ... um=twitter

VANCOUVER – Details are now emerging of a six-year deal that has been negotiated between the BCTF and the provincial government.

Teachers have yet to vote on the deal, which will take place on Thursday, and the question of when kids will go back to school remains unanswered at this time.

But the deal on the table right now is for six years with a wage increase of 7.25 per cent over the six years.

There will no longer be a Learning Improvement Fund, which is the fund used to address class size and composition. It will be replaced with a new fund that is strictly to hire new teachers, including specialist teachers. That fund will consist of $85 million a year.

There is also a one-time cash allotment to the BCTF. The figure has not been disclosed yet, but it will be used to pay for things like grievances. The BCTF will have control of that fund and can distribute the money how they see fit.

It appears that the contentious E80 clause is now off the table as well.

In regards to the court case, which the BCTF has previously won on two occasions, there is a reopener clause in the contract once the court case if finalized, which may take a few more years. A reopener clause allows for the reopening of a collective bargaining contract before it expires.

It appears that the government moved the most on class size and composition and the BCTF moved the most on wages in order to get to this tentative agreement.

More details about the tentative deal are expected to be released soon.

Premier Christy Clark said the tentative deal between teachers and government “allows us to reset our relationship.” She said it took time and she knows it was a difficult time for parents and teachers but it was worth it.

“We found a way to give teachers a fair raise, found ways to improve classrooms without raising taxes and cutting services,” said Clark.

She confirmed the deal is within the government’s fiscal plan. They will not be raising taxes or increasing the deficit. Clark also said there was no outside pressure to get the deal done.

“I know, both sides, all sides in this, worked really really hard to get to an agreement.”

[Topper]

I was hoping to watch the teachers smile and wave from their picket lines through Autumn rains and winds. Maybe set up a burning barrel or two.

Yes, fucked over the union representing special needs TAs, way to go, but maybe with the new spacial needs teachers, a return to the "special classes" will happen.

[Topper]

Six year deal. - Government win

7.25% wage increase - Government win

Learning Assistance Fund gets a new name and goes from $75 million/year to $89 million/year. and will be used for primarilly to hire special needs teachers with a small portion to special needs TAs. - Government win

One time payment for grievances to the BCTF of $108 million. The grievances could have been several hundred million if allowed to be decided by an arbitrator. BCTF gets to use this money as they wish. Pay back strike fund loans from other unions? Signing bonus ($2500/teacher)? - Government win

Reopen the deal clause once court case appeals have run their course. - Government win

Fassbender and Cameron stood their ground with what was a fair offer from the public purse and forced Iker to capitulate.

It only took one missed paycheck this fall for the teachers to loose faith. The demonstration crashed by an anti BCTF crowd on the weekend showed that those of us not supporting the BCTF had had enough of Iker's vaudeville act. The loss of public support for teachers was only going to grow.

Best they got a deal now because the offers were only going to get worse.

Lets see how Iker massages it.

[isle_nuck]

Government win

Government win

Government win

Government win

Government win

E80 is gone. We don't have a 10 year deal like they were trying to force feed us in June. Rumours of a signing bonus which was supposed to disappear at the end of June. One of the first questions to CC was about pressure from China. I'll take a few of those government wins for what I listed.

Of course I haven't seen the deal, or talked to anyone outside of the rest of the rank and file, so I'm remaining cautious (as is every other teacher I talk to).

If the rumours are true, from a personal point of view: for me, a teacher with a strong resume, but no full time gig, the initial rumours of more money to hire new teachers sounds promising. And if I don't make the cut....before this weekend it seemed the provision about TOC's getting paid at scale on their first day of call out instead of the fourth consecutive day of work was agreed upon, so if that survived this weekend, my wallet will be happy with this deal.

From a group/professional point of view: As a collective, we were called greedy a lot during these negotiations. If the government got their pay scale, but we got improvements in class size and composition in the deal, before the court ruling is finalized (which is how the media is saying things went down), I think we won our biggest battle. It seemed CS & C would be the hill we would die on and if you think we did, so be it.

[Topper]

Just watched Iker's presser. LOL did that snake squirm.

He was incapable of pointing out one issue the teachers could grasp as a victory and instead diverted attention to union solidarity with the BCFed and the OntarioTeachers.

He's a whipped puppy who's nose has been rubbed in his own pool of piddle.

Update,

Christie's presser was brilliant, stepped in and took charge while acting the roll of the soccer Mom. Thanked Iker by name for his leadership in caving in further rubbing his nose in that puddle he left on the floor as Fasbender stood stoically beside his premier.

Her hiccup through the process was when Iker goaded her into her twits and silly comments.

[ukcanuck]

Doc topper and platters spins his greatest hits

[Strangelove]

Reopen the deal clause once court case appeals have run their course. - Government win

LOL!!!

Yeahno.

[SKYO]

KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL NEXT WEEK - Parents win.

[Topper]

Reopen the deal clause once court case appeals have run their course. - Government win

LOL!!!

Yeahno.

Government initially proposed the reopen clause and then replaced it with E80. E80 is out, reopen clause back in (and grievances that may be payable pending the outcome of the court cases going back to Christie's original tampering with the contract bought off). - Government win