GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:42 pm

We're going to have to get used to Hughes' pylon tendencies, partly out of laziness and mostly simply from a lack of size. It might/should improve a bit over the years with more experience but probably not by much, this is the player we have. But honestly I could give a flying F (at least for now), he is simply a fucking show with the puck..we've not had that for...ever, really, so I am going to enjoy every second of it mistakes be damned.

Look at it this way, would you rather have Hughes soft in defensive zone or Gudbranson or Hutton back who were just as weak in different ways?

The Hughes/Myers combo on the 2nd unit PP was by far the most notable difference when comparing last year's team to this one...what a presence! Won't be long before they take over the 1st unit, though Edler was fine there last night.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by micky107 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:45 pm

Oh well; I gotta say it:
When it's even clearer, we need to get Baertschi back up and up to speed and "seriously" put out three scoring lines.
Gaudette / Sutter--could alternate face-offs and Baertschi.

That Oilers team I saw last night could not have covered it. Oh you might have had a more elevated score, like 6-4 Canucks but....
It's difficult for me to see us with many more points then last year if it's 2 scoring lines then 2 checking lines.
"evolution"

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Hank » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:14 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:27 pm
Hank wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:10 am



And anyone who suggests Baer and Goldy would serve this team better than the other bottom 6 players... you can't just pro-rate their avg. top 6 results and apply it with their bottom 6 minutes.

They don't PK, so the unit would be taxed. Special teams count and ours would take a huge hit. That leaves them playing 5-7 minutes 5-on-5 a game with no PP. Maybe they pick up the occasional lady hairs here and there on the PP, but those two aren't going to generate offence on checking lines.
So you want to see bottom 6 players all special team guys who are on the PK or based upon the current makeup of the Canucks there are no 3rd line players that can do both PK and provide some offence?

Most teams do not have 2 checking lines, their 3rd line has some skill, no?
Um, no. I want to see guys on the 3rd line who can truly play that gritty role and who will be able to actually check, PK AND generate some offence.

Someone like Gaudette, who looks to be shaping up to be that. And Roussel. Maybe soon, a guy like Madden and perhaps Lockwood. But for now, as poor as Sutter, Loui, Beagle and Schaller may be (in some people's minds), they're much better suited for this. When Motte comes back, Timmy will be in the pressbox.

For now, Goldy is worthless in any role with the Canucks and I have doubts Baertschi can maintain a decent scoring pace from bottom lines without the even strength minutes and less or no PP time.

The bottom roles don't suit these two because they are soft, weak, aren't good checkers, aren't good at puck retrieval and don't kill penalties. The team would actually suffer more than it would benefit.

Until JB rectifies the bottom players to allow Gaudette to have a permanent spot and room for Roussel to come back, I'm comfortable with it.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Strangelove » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:09 pm

Meds wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:05 am
Doc's boy
Still upset about me outing you as an illogical rumourmonger? :D

I'm on record as in favour of shipping out Sutter when Gaudette is ready.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Meds » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:09 pm
Meds wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:05 am
Doc's boy
Still upset about me outing you as an illogical rumourmonger? :D

I'm on record as in favour of shipping out Sutter when Gaudette is ready.
Hey man, it's ok. Nobody is judging man.

You love your skinny farmboys. I was just sayin' is all.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by damonberryman » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:26 pm

Hank wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:44 pm
DonCherry4PM wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:41 pm
CrzyCanuck wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:37 pm
what's up with the music??
Not hearing any on my feed - what is it?
It was Russian bathhouse during the Oilers players introductions.
CrzyCanuck wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:44 pm
Not really a fan of Leivo.

The guy may have an ok shot but his puck-handling skill is questionable
So is his passing, footspeed, acceleration, body positioning during puck battles, dragonass back into his own zone... I could go on, but he's just another placeholder who happens to be a more offensively talented Tim Schaller.
As I watched the horrid intro I could see the Coil were embarrassed to be a part of it. There is a word to describe the circus...TACKY. Why does Edmonton end up being their cliche? It really was dreadful.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Strangelove » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:30 pm

Meds wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:16 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:09 pm
Meds wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:05 am
Doc's boy
Still upset about me outing you as an illogical rumourmonger? :D

I'm on record as in favour of shipping out Sutter when Gaudette is ready.
Hey man, it's ok. Nobody is judging man.

You love your skinny farmboys. I was just sayin' is all.
There's that illogical rumourmonger again.
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GO CANUCKS GO!!!

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Hank » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:47 pm

Upon further review on Kassian's goal, Bo & Miller's line change doesn't appear as bad as their replacements jump on well ahead of Zack.

The problem is they get mesmerized by the puck and drift towards it, leaving ol' Zacky with a clear lane to the net.

Pearson argues, then heads toward the bench but it's too late for someone to jump on for him. A clear 5-on-4 situations for the Oilers.

The ref was right behind the net as Smith takes the stick out of Pearson's hands and this should have been called.

https://twitter.com/Canucks/status/1179822111738585088
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Topper » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:52 pm

Hank wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:06 pm
UWSaint wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:18 am
micky107 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:36 am
.
Tanev was a moving truck away from the play to the outside.
Yes, Tanev was wide to give Sutter the option of flipping the ice to break out and then was clearly going to change. Right or wrong positioning by Tanev, ideally Hughes reads that and knows he has the center lane. I don't think he recognized where his partner was, possibly explaining his delayed reaction.

I won't knock him yet for not playing with the assumption that that Sutter, Leivo, or Stecher will turn the puck over when coming out of the zone.
I don't think most coaches would take issue with getting beat by the best player in the world on such a bang-bang play, as long as the effort was there to defend.

What drives coaches nuts is the lack of defensive effort... standing around, coasting or just waiving a stick (ahem, Goldy). Lazy turnovers are the worst sin. Green might have talked to Sutter about it, but he isn't going to air that out publicly and do that to a vet.
That is why I mentioned it. He turned away from the play and gave a lazy one handed backhand swipe. I saw the same in a preseason game. As UW mentioned, he miss read the play. I say he has to learn.

Just because he does some things very well, does not mean he gets a free ride for things he fucks up on.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by DonCherry4PM » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:25 pm

Hank wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:14 pm
Um, no. I want to see guys on the 3rd line who can truly play that gritty role and who will be able to actually check, PK AND generate some offence.

Someone like Gaudette, who looks to be shaping up to be that. And Roussel. Maybe soon, a guy like Madden and perhaps Lockwood. But for now, as poor as Sutter, Loui, Beagle and Schaller may be (in some people's minds), they're much better suited for this. When Motte comes back, Timmy will be in the pressbox.

For now, Goldy is worthless in any role with the Canucks and I have doubts Baertschi can maintain a decent scoring pace from bottom lines without the even strength minutes and less or no PP time.

The bottom roles don't suit these two because they are soft, weak, aren't good checkers, aren't good at puck retrieval and don't kill penalties. The team would actually suffer more than it would benefit.

Until JB rectifies the bottom players to allow Gaudette to have a permanent spot and room for Roussel to come back, I'm comfortable with it.
First let's dispense with Goldy. Most are not advocating for him to be placed in a third or fourth line role.

As for Sven, you talk about him being unable to act in a a third line role because he is "soft, weak, aren't good checkers, aren't good at puck retrieval and don't kill penalties". Well, the guys currently comprising the bottom six (sans Lievo) had the worst goal differential in the league playing 5 on 5 last year.

Not opinion.

Fact.

So apparently the "bottom roles don't suit" the current composition if you consider their past performance.

Pretty hard for Sven and Gaudette (and even Lievo) to do worse than that. And they might even be able to put the puck in the net every now and then. 8-)

As an aside, in the 16-17 season Baertschi played about 18.5 minutes on the penalty kill and held his own there.
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Vincibility lies in the enemy.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Reefer2 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:07 am

I mentioned Goldobin more as reference to an any player with offence, yes he has defensive flaws but then so do some of the bottom 6. I will retract the name Goldy and substitute anyone with some offensive flair on the team. a 3rd line of Gaudette/Bear/??? would be better than what we see currently.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by The Brown Wizard » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:12 am

Reefer2 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:07 am
I mentioned Goldobin more as reference to an any player with offence, yes he has defensive flaws but then so do some of the bottom 6. I will retract the name Goldy and substitute anyone with some offensive flair on the team. a 3rd line of Gaudette/Bear/??? would be better than what we see currently.
How is Baertchi getting pushed around and off pucks all over the ice be better tho reef?
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by micky107 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:41 am

Reefer2 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:07 am
a 3rd line of Gaudette/Bear/??? would be better than what we see currently.
I agree!! But at this point the word is the team most likely not change the line-up for the next game.
Still early, we'll see. Baer will not be back until there's an injury>>too bad / and Gaudette is gonna get sent down soon>>too bad.
Utica has too many guys now

We won't win many games with lines 3 and 4 configured like they were on wednesday.
Last edited by micky107 on Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by 5thhorseman » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:08 am

People complain about Green's constant line shuffling yet posters here want to change things up after only one regular season game!

Everyone's going to need more patience than this, especially since our season starts slowly: Wed-Sat-Wed-Sat-Tue, i.e. 5 games in 14 days.

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ oiler - 7pm- SN-P -Oct 2

Post by Hank » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:36 am

DonCherry4PM wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:25 pm
First let's dispense with Goldy. Most are not advocating for him to be placed in a third or fourth line role.

As for Sven, you talk about him being unable to act in a a third line role because he is "soft, weak, aren't good checkers, aren't good at puck retrieval and don't kill penalties". Well, the guys currently comprising the bottom six (sans Lievo) had the worst goal differential in the league playing 5 on 5 last year.

Not opinion.

Fact.

So apparently the "bottom roles don't suit" the current composition if you consider their past performance.

Pretty hard for Sven and Gaudette (and even Lievo) to do worse than that. And they might even be able to put the puck in the net every now and then. 8-)

As an aside, in the 16-17 season Baertschi played about 18.5 minutes on the penalty kill and held his own there.
Well, those were the facts last year. This year, the D has 5 legitimate experienced NHL defensemen and a rookie who is better than those who aren't here anymore. Between that a legitimately good top 6 to shelter them.

(preface that only one game has been played, but the analytics have already been night and day difference ;) )

Guys do look better on good teams and worse on bad ones.

Last year and previous years, when Tanev and Edler were in, the team at least got points in the standings. When they were out, it was a bottom 3 lottery team. The bottom roles suit the current composition just fine, they just got eaten up by the league's top lines along with fringe defensemen playing more minutes and bigger roles than they should.

Once Gaudette inserts himself into a regular role and Roussel is back, the bottom 6 will have good players who can contribute in their roles. Jim and Travis will then really have to sort out LE and Dr. Schaller who is parked as soon as Motte is back anyway. Sutter will be around as long as Gaudette needs. I see him being shopped quietly before TDD. And I'm sure we will see Sven sometime this year. Whatever role he gets up here depends on the usual rash of injuries.

Sure, this is my opinion but everyone knows how NHL coaches and management operate. I'm not a Sven-hater, I'm just calling it the way I see it.

In fact, I truly feel for him. They made their decision, but I think TG was disingenuous when he said Sven didn't have a good camp. He did, it wasn't great but...

Green and most coaches want certain types of role players to fill those bottom roles. He's got a glut of them still to sort out and they are all ahead of Sven just because of the type of game they've already have or adjusted to. Possibly outscoring the likes of Sutter, Loui, Jake, etc. by a few extra points with fewer minutes than them is unlikely and not going to earn the trust in Green's mind (My opinion based on what happens in the NHL).

Most teams aren't stacked like the Lightning where JT Miller has to play on the 3rd line. And those lineups don't last in a salary capped world. Their style can be different when their top guys on O and D can blow you up whenever they needed to (kind of like the 2011 Nucks). But look at the playoffs when that grit and sandpaper is needed.

And not to be sarcastic, but Sven's PK history of 18.5 minutes total 2 years ago isn't going to sway coaches from giving him a permanent bottom role with those kind of minutes or responsibilities.

Good discussion.
Try to focus on THIS year...

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