GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by Meds »

Last night was such a great start, and we seemed to be holding our own through the first 20 minutes, even carried a lead into the 2nd period, though by the time we hit the last 5 minutes I think we were fortunate to do that.

Roy clearly reminded his team during the first intermission that they are faster than us and can burn us with speed, and that's what they did.

Kassian's first 2 minute minor seemed soft, or maybe he was just a bit too aggressive? To me that didn't fall under the "boneheaded" penalty like the one in Edmonton where he through a uselessly late hit. On his return to the ice I thought he did a nice job of keeping the left point man from doing anything more than throwing the puck up and down the half-boards. He took away the shooting lane quite well.

Iginla's goal was the fault of Matthias. The slot belongs to the centerman, you don't chase below the blueline unless the defensemen are outnumbered and going to get burned down low. Matthias left his wingers high and dry, even though Kassian was the closest to Jarome, that wasn't his man to pickup.

Kassian's 10 minutes was fine. Late in the game and Colorado up by 4, no need for them to be crashing Lack. I don't blame the ref for tossing him, no need to risk a bad incident, but that kind of response at least sends a message that the team isn't just going to rollover and puss out like we have in years past.

Lack had a bad game. Sure he faced a ton of rubber, but none of those first 6 goals were redirected, and there's that old saying about a timely save, particularly Landeskog's goal. We had just closed the gap to 5-3 and looked to have a shred of momentum with 10 minutes to go. That was a terrible goal to let in, and you saw the whole team sag. That is not to say this loss should be laid at his feet.

Obviously speed is going to be an issue for us. Not a surprise, but if nothing else this road trip was a good showing for Benning to clearly see that deficiency in our team. We are the fleetest up front, and both Edler and Sbisa are burned by fast skaters. Weber, while not slow, is simply too small to handle NHL caliber attackers.

I'm going to the next 3 games, both the Caps and Habs have that speed component that we lack, should be interesting to see if WillieD can come up with a way for his team to counter that while still maintaining a level of attack.
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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by Meds »

RoyalDude wrote: Kassian IQ away from the puck is quite low, his anticipation of play is awful. Good players always know how to be around the puck or put themselves in positions to get the puck. When the puck gets to Zack it's usually by fluke
It is really tough to accurately assess this until he gets a chance to play with linemates who have a decent IQ with the puck. I know, I know, I like Kassian and tend to defend him quickly, but I'm not blind to the holes in his game.

I've noticed what you are pointing out Dude, Kassian often floats into a spot and we see play go the other way. But look at the spot on the ice he's floating to, (and consider that Matthias and Richardson are grinders. They cycle the puck up and down the wall, they rarely look to the middle), it's usually some space where if he gets the puck he has room to make a play at the net or make another play on a give and go as the defense shifts to him. He's done this from day one with us. Remember when he got a look with the Twins and had 5 goals in 7 games? He did that by going to those open areas, and being at the net when the puck was sent there. His defensive game was sloppy, so he got demoted.....although AV's reasoning at the time was because the Sedins themselves weren't scoring, and he needed to get them and Burrows going.

The best power forwards can do both of carry the puck to the net, and bang home the garbage in front. Most of them are playing with at least one skater who can play setup man though. Few of them have the hands to pass the puck and play setup man the way Kassian does, it's one of the things that made Bertuzzi so special for those WCE years. But Bert wasn't really an instant success when he was playing with players of Richardson and Matthias' caliber either.
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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by Arachnid »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mondi wrote:I hope that Vrbata, Miller, and maybe Bieksa or Hamhuis could garner yet another 1RP at this year's deadline.

Presuming we don't go on some sort of unlikely run.

One hopes that Jensen, Gaunce, and one of Horvat/Shinkaruk/Virtanen/McCann is ready to help this year. Another is ready to help next year.

We may have to start drafting d-men really soon.

Trading guys like Vrbata and Miller less than a year after signing them to multi-year deals is not a great message to send to any future UFA's coming to market. I'm sure they had no illusions coming into this season and Vrbata is on pace for a career year. Both those guys can be part of the solution.

I'm also not sure the Canucks can afford to do away with Bieksa or Hamhuis at this stage. Who replaces them? Is Corrado ready? Getting dmen in the draft is the most likely route (if they're the BPA), and that could be a 3-4 year process to develop d-men.

Like the Dude said, it won't happen overnight. We don't want to move our prospects or rookies for short-term solutions, but a fire sale only creates other problems (forcing players into roles too early, too much pressure on prospects, culture of losing becomes acceptable etc.)

What I do find amusing is the people who figure there are only two options here. It's either we're competing for a Stanley Cup, or we absolutely should try to lose every game. That's a garbage argument. Of course we're not considered an "elite" team anymore, but we still need to have some pride in the jersey and at least expect our team (including management) to put forth an effort to win hockey games. We're not in a position to move younger guys for vets, nor should we be advocating trading everyone, icing an AHL roster, and sucking for the next 10 years while we draft in the top-3 for half a generation. An Oilers style, decade-long rebuild is what we need to avoid at all costs.

The process of building a new youth movement has been underway for a couple years. The Canucks could conceivably bottom out and wind up with a lottery pick, but it won't be on purpose. And while everyone here is arguing wether or not we should tank purposefully or are still in a playoff hunt the building blocks for future success are already being assembled and could be making an impact sooner vs. later.

I'll reiterate that I really do find Benning's philosophy and Willie's coaching styles to be quite promising. We all see the gaping holes in our roster and which areas are currently lacking. I'm willing to bet they see them too, and are working to remedy them. It takes time. Nobody is just going to give you an Evander Kane or a Wayne Simmonds, just like JB isn't going to trade away his best prospects for 30+ year olds. Nothing knee-jerk, nothing to compromise the integrity of the franchise, but sober reflection and competent decisions best for the long-term success of the franchise.

:drink:
You have to be, without a doubt, the biggest idiot this board has ever seen. It's not black and white on CC, it's spectrum and a great one at that. Who on here actually wants this team to lose?

All the fans want this team to win but the disagreement seems to be now or later. You simply can't be good all the time nor bad all the time (with Detroit & Edmonton the exceptions).
So accept that this team will struggle for a while before they get back into contention. Vrbata and Miller are stop gap measures to show the fans they are at least trying, going to entertain on some nights/plays and to sell season tickets.
They won't singlehandedly lead the team to nirvana, only time and Grade A prospects can do that.

Real™ fans know this. Posers just whine about it. :P
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)
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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Arachnid wrote: You have to be, without a doubt, the biggest idiot this board has ever seen. It's not black and white on CC, it's spectrum and a great one at that. Who on here actually wants this team to lose?
Arachnid on Wed Sep 24, 2014 wrote:I will cheer for them to lose

Where are you on "the Spectrum"?

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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by Strangelove »

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Nice use of the archives Island Nucklehead! :lol:
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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by 2Fingers »

The game stunk.

Didn't see all of it as I had a nap and played poker but it was a case of bad bounces. one guy at the table said the right thing, ever they win convincingly or lose the same way.

either way it will be a long season.
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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Hockey Widow wrote: Now for a team struggling to sell out which road do you think they walk down?

Exactly! They will not do an obvious re-build unless we are near the bottom of the league obviously out of the playoffs come deadline day. If that state exists then I could see a cleaning of house and a lot of pressure put on the core with NTC. But until then I just don't see it. But I wonder how patient they will be before making some more changes. How far do we have to fall before they jettison some of the bottom six? How loyal will Willie be to the boys from the Hat or the Dub?
Man do I disagree with this as do thousands of other Canuck fans. The reason the sellouts are no longer, a declining passion for this brand of entertainment in this city is we are tired of the same old same old. Has nothing to do with winning. This core is a dead horse and this city is tired of the product. The cup dream with this core is chasing a dead dream, HW. The city knows it and doesn't care for it. Don't kid yourself, there is a silent rebuild going on here that excites this city. It's that future that will eventually put butts back at the seats of Rogers arena. Not a couple of 34 year old twins Surrounded by average hockey players with no prospects in the line up to bring back those cup dreams and interest for his team from its fans. The fans are fickle yes, but they are not idiots either, they know when something's ran its course.
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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by Hockey Widow »

RoyalDude wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote: Now for a team struggling to sell out which road do you think they walk down?

Exactly! They will not do an obvious re-build unless we are near the bottom of the league obviously out of the playoffs come deadline day. If that state exists then I could see a cleaning of house and a lot of pressure put on the core with NTC. But until then I just don't see it. But I wonder how patient they will be before making some more changes. How far do we have to fall before they jettison some of the bottom six? How loyal will Willie be to the boys from the Hat or the Dub?
Man do I disagree with this as do thousands of other Canuck fans. The reason the sellouts are no longer, a declining passion for this brand of entertainment in this city is we are tired of the same old same old. Has nothing to do with winning. This core is a dead horse and this city is tired of the product. The cup dream with this core is chasing a dead dream, HW. The city knows it and doesn't care for it. Don't kid yourself, there is a silent rebuild going on here that excites this city. It's that future that will eventually put butts back at the seats of Rogers arena. Not a couple of 34 year old twins Surrounded by average hockey players with no prospects in the line up to bring back those cup dreams and interest for his team from its fans. The fans are fickle yes, but they are not idiots either, they know when something's ran its course.

I don't think we are saying anything different Dude. You say we are in a silent re-build, I say we won't do an obvious cleaning house unless we are tanked. Same thing. I say the goal is to ice a team that has a chance to make the playoffs to try and fill the seats, you say this silent rebuild excites the city. Same thing Dude.

We tend to agree more than you note. I offer an opinion as to what I think the Canucks are doing and why and you take it as me advocating a certain course. i was responding to a post that we should clean house now and I offered up an opinion as to why I didn't think the Canucks would do such an obvious rebuild at this time, but would certainly contemplate at the deadline if we were tanked. You said you couldn't disagree more yet are saying basically the same thing.

Just saying we tend to agree more than you note,Mathis year anyway :mrgreen:
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Re: GDT 24/10/2014: Canucks @ Avalanche 18:00PST - SN1

Post by 2Fingers »

ticket price plus a bubble team means less bums in seats.
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